More Questions About Relationships....

Page 1 of 1 [ 14 posts ] 

Morgana
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,524
Location: Hamburg, Germany

04 Jan 2009, 11:16 am

Ok, this is basically a sequel to the post "Can Somebody Straighten Me Out?" I still find that relationships are full of inconsistencies, different from what we learn growing up, and therefore hard to fathom. Based on what I have observed as well as what I have read, I have finally deduced that: being sexy+ being somewhat mean= success. I realize this is rather simplistic, and if I am wrong, feel free to correct me; but, at least, there seems to be some truth to it.

What I have learned is that being "sexy", for a woman at least, has nothing to do with "feeling sexual". "Sexy" is a social construct, which means basically wearing the right clothes, making the right body movements and putting on certain facial expressions. (of course, having big breasts helps a lot). In other words, feeling sexual feels natural to me, whereas being "sexy" does not, usually- it feels like play acting.

I have also read repeatedly that being "a nice person" is a turnoff. People are not excited by nice. If you are too giving (also known as "easy"- I am not meaning that in sexual terms here)- your social worth drops down. Apparently, the harder it is to attain you, and the harder it is to keep you, the more you are worth having. Christian Carter, a man who supposedly has helped many women with their relationships, explained this phenomenon to women by making an analogy about shoes. He mentioned the fact that if a woman sees a pair of shoes she really wants, then buys them, the novelty wears off pretty quickly; soon she´ll see another pair of shoes she likes more, and then she´ll want THAT pair.

Of course, I don´t feel that way about shoes, so I didn´t really get this. But I guess what people are trying to say is that it´s human nature to take for granted what you have, and to want what you don´t have. Hence, the game playing in relationships, I guess.

So....if one wants to have, and keep relationships, I guess one needs to be good at playing this game?


_________________
"death is the road to awe"


JohnHopkins
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 19 Nov 2007
Age: 35
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,463

04 Jan 2009, 11:32 am

1. These rules do not apply to EVERYBODY, because everyone is different and some people will have different tastes.

2. The 'nice person' thing gets less true as you get older and people start to mature, anyone who is actually worth being with will see the value in somebody being nice.

3. Aside from that... more or less, yeah. This is a game that has to be played. You learn the rules (which are not solid anyway, they differ for different people and are not totally set. This is a key thing to understand. You can't apply the same attitude to everyone) and you play the game as best you can.



poopylungstuffing
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Age: 48
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,714
Location: Snapdragon Ridge

04 Jan 2009, 12:15 pm

I have gotten through the relationships I have been in just by being myself and not playing games.
Not everyone can be nice all the time..I have been liked for not being as mean as other girls.



garyww
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Age: 76
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,395
Location: Napa, California

04 Jan 2009, 2:46 pm

Yeah, it's probably the 'meaness' deal that kills a lot of relationships. Of course that applies to everybody and not just people on the spectrum.


_________________
I am one of those people who your mother used to warn you about.


Morgana
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,524
Location: Hamburg, Germany

06 Jan 2009, 4:55 pm

JohnHopkins wrote:

3. Aside from that... more or less, yeah. This is a game that has to be played. You learn the rules (which are not solid anyway, they differ for different people and are not totally set. This is a key thing to understand. You can't apply the same attitude to everyone) and you play the game as best you can.


Ach, oi....big problem for me. I realize that not only am I still trying to figure out the rules, but I guess all this time I´ve been playing a different game entirely! Everyone else has been playing Monopoly, while I´ve been playing Parcheesi, if you know what I mean. Now I think probably the best game for me to play is Solitaire....


_________________
"death is the road to awe"


Morgana
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,524
Location: Hamburg, Germany

06 Jan 2009, 5:00 pm

poopylungstuffing wrote:
I have gotten through the relationships I have been in just by being myself and not playing games.
Not everyone can be nice all the time..I have been liked for not being as mean as other girls.


Wow, that´s great that it´s worked for you! This is encouraging, at least.

In my case, men seem to be attracted to me, but when they get to know me they wish I was a different person. But I tend to be myself too, I can´t do the acting. It´s just that being myself hasn´t been all that successful.


_________________
"death is the road to awe"


garyww
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Age: 76
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,395
Location: Napa, California

06 Jan 2009, 5:16 pm

Have you really been yourself or what you've thought others thought yourself should be like. It's like looking into a series of mirriors that all reflect back into themselves. Which image is really 'us' and which image is just a reflection.


_________________
I am one of those people who your mother used to warn you about.


sunshower
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Age: 124
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,985

06 Jan 2009, 9:22 pm

Personally, after a year of being out of school and properly exposed to the dating world for the first time, I am thoroughly sick of it.

I won't play the games, and I won't go along with the courtship rituals. I will reject anyone that makes a romantic/dating move towards me (by setting clear friendship boundaries), and if I happen to start liking someone as more than a friend I will ignore all social constructs/roles and pursue them in earnest, doing everything I can to win them as a boyfriend.

What's society going to do about it? Jail me?


_________________
Into the dark...


makuranososhi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,805
Location: Banned by Alex

06 Jan 2009, 11:24 pm

Morgana wrote:
poopylungstuffing wrote:
I have gotten through the relationships I have been in just by being myself and not playing games.
Not everyone can be nice all the time..I have been liked for not being as mean as other girls.


Wow, that´s great that it´s worked for you! This is encouraging, at least.

In my case, men seem to be attracted to me, but when they get to know me they wish I was a different person. But I tend to be myself too, I can´t do the acting. It´s just that being myself hasn´t been all that successful.


As a man, I've not been much for attraction to the artifice, the facade - it has been the quirks and individual nuances that drew me to partners, not their ability to fit another's notion of what is expected. I would also agree that it matter less as you get older, at least in the circles in which I have dated and met people. What you describe above (bolded) struck me - in my own experience in relationships, I've found that since I don't change considerably from meeting someone to being in a relationship and generally change more slowly than my partners... there are often conflicts and issues since I don't conform to their expectations. Something I just wanted to share.


M.


_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


sunshower
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Age: 124
Gender: Female
Posts: 3,985

06 Jan 2009, 11:44 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
Morgana wrote:
poopylungstuffing wrote:
I have gotten through the relationships I have been in just by being myself and not playing games.
Not everyone can be nice all the time..I have been liked for not being as mean as other girls.


Wow, that´s great that it´s worked for you! This is encouraging, at least.

In my case, men seem to be attracted to me, but when they get to know me they wish I was a different person. But I tend to be myself too, I can´t do the acting. It´s just that being myself hasn´t been all that successful.


As a man, I've not been much for attraction to the artifice, the facade - it has been the quirks and individual nuances that drew me to partners, not their ability to fit another's notion of what is expected. I would also agree that it matter less as you get older, at least in the circles in which I have dated and met people. What you describe above (bolded) struck me - in my own experience in relationships, I've found that since I don't change considerably from meeting someone to being in a relationship and generally change more slowly than my partners... there are often conflicts and issues since I don't conform to their expectations. Something I just wanted to share.


M.


Same.


_________________
Into the dark...


yesplease
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Age: 42
Gender: Male
Posts: 517

07 Jan 2009, 3:44 am

Morgana wrote:
So....if one wants to have, and keep relationships, I guess one needs to be good at playing this game?
Not always IMO. People want different things at different points in their life. The "keep away" games people play are IMO exploratory and juvenile (not in the bad way). Eventually, through a combination of events, perhaps growing w/ their partner, or just growing in general, they happen to find they are looking for something a bit more permanent and look for that. In short, it depends on you and the other person as to how much of that game you'll see.



Morgana
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,524
Location: Hamburg, Germany

07 Jan 2009, 3:37 pm

makuranososhi wrote:

As a man, I've not been much for attraction to the artifice, the facade - it has been the quirks and individual nuances that drew me to partners, not their ability to fit another's notion of what is expected. I would also agree that it matter less as you get older, at least in the circles in which I have dated and met people. What you describe above (bolded) struck me - in my own experience in relationships, I've found that since I don't change considerably from meeting someone to being in a relationship and generally change more slowly than my partners... there are often conflicts and issues since I don't conform to their expectations. Something I just wanted to share.


M.


My experience is that people who want to get to know me and date me definitely put up a facade- usually- which, when I was younger, I unfortunately took literally. It took me many relationships to realize that people often put on acts to get you to go out with them. I very often found myself in a relationship- (often not sure how exactly I got there- that was how clueless I used to be!) and realized that the person wasn´t at all the person I originally thought them to be.

I always tried to be myself, but I think in my case people maybe read me wrong? Meaning, I´ve discovered how often people just assume that all women have the same thoughts and feelings- (this idea of "sameness" probably holds true for men too, I imagine). Even reading psychology books or publications explaining social phenomena, there seems to be this idea that in certain ways, all women are supposed to be alike. I know this is not true, but many of the men I knew seemed to automatically assume it was true. I felt that people often misunderstood or misread me, because they assumed I would be conventional.

In addition, there were all the communication difficulties. I tend to speak literally, and say what I mean. It was amazing how many people assumed that I meant something else, and analyzed what I said in a way that was not at all what I intended! So, I guess people misread me that way too....(and I them, as I tended to take all they said literally).

Interesting that many of you say it gets easier as you get older. That may be true...I AM older now, and my challenge now is just to get into a relationship in the first place! Everyone my age is so experienced, and people are often through with their 1st marriage and looking for their 2nd...anyway, things just happen way too fast for me. I feel like a beginner in skiing, stuck on a ski slope that´s way too steep and hard for me. At least when I was younger, people seemed more patient, and well....things felt still too fast for me, but now it´s ridiculous...I just haven´t done a relationship in a long time.

Of course, the fact that I basically just never go out and socialize doesn´t help much....

Anyway, thanks for your feedback everyone!


_________________
"death is the road to awe"


makuranososhi
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 May 2008
Age: 47
Gender: Male
Posts: 5,805
Location: Banned by Alex

08 Jan 2009, 3:18 am

The facade, as I have framed it for myself, is selective representation, exposing only specific traits in the effort to attract a mate. Generally speaking, my relationships have come from friendships - some short term, some after a great length of time, but few started with the intent of romance. Perhaps this is a coping mechanism, as it tends to lessen the selection process and keeps a more realistic representation of the person on display instead of a preening peacock. And admittedly, there have been opportunities lost when the other person was more comfortable remaining friends instead of pursuing something else - but in the end, I gained a friend, and if they were worth my interest as a partner, then I believe they certainly have value as a friend. When I've looked for romance overtly... what you describe isn't that unfamiliar, suddenly in a relationship with someone that I don't recognize. Similarly, when I >don't< change, partners have been startled or uncomfortable in the relationship since their expectation was that I would conform or become someone else once things became more serious. And I should add that age is not the greatest part, it is experience both lived and applied which I think has helped more than anything else. The one-size-fits-all approach, whether in self-help literature, or the attempts to pigeonhole entire genders based on select criteria, really irks me as well... really confusing since people rarely seem alike to me in a recognizable manner on a consistent basis.


M.


_________________
My thanks to all the wonderful members here; I will miss the opportunity to continue to learn and work with you.

For those who seek an alternative, it is coming.

So long, and thanks for all the fish!


Morgana
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 20 Sep 2008
Age: 62
Gender: Female
Posts: 1,524
Location: Hamburg, Germany

08 Jan 2009, 2:42 pm

makuranososhi wrote:
The facade, as I have framed it for myself, is selective representation, exposing only specific traits in the effort to attract a mate. Generally speaking, my relationships have come from friendships - some short term, some after a great length of time, but few started with the intent of romance. Perhaps this is a coping mechanism, as it tends to lessen the selection process and keeps a more realistic representation of the person on display instead of a preening peacock. And admittedly, there have been opportunities lost when the other person was more comfortable remaining friends instead of pursuing something else - but in the end, I gained a friend, and if they were worth my interest as a partner, then I believe they certainly have value as a friend. When I've looked for romance overtly... what you describe isn't that unfamiliar, suddenly in a relationship with someone that I don't recognize. Similarly, when I >don't< change, partners have been startled or uncomfortable in the relationship since their expectation was that I would conform or become someone else once things became more serious. And I should add that age is not the greatest part, it is experience both lived and applied which I think has helped more than anything else. The one-size-fits-all approach, whether in self-help literature, or the attempts to pigeonhole entire genders based on select criteria, really irks me as well... really confusing since people rarely seem alike to me in a recognizable manner on a consistent basis.


M.


I totally agree with you about the friendship thing. In fact, originally, I expected my relationships to come out of friendships...(that happened basically once, and it was the best relationship I ever had). Unfortunately, in our world I´m finding it hard to become friends with a man. I guess maybe that´s the information I need to learn first, is how to become friends with a man? I notice the "sexual thing" gets in the way. If I act friendly, the man assumes it´s something sexual, and either wants sex quickly or runs away from me as if he´s terrified! (Sometimes their angst is almost laughable, as I consider myself rather non-threatening). I´ve tried leaving it up to them, but when I do, none of them are interested in friendship to start off with. I know I´m not the only woman who has this problem: many women I know say "men and women can´t be friends". Some of my female friends also seem disappointed by this reality...but, at least they somehow end up being more successful than I in the romantic department. It´s not that I´m always totally clueless interacting with people, as I have a lot of gay male friends!

But, yeah...that´s basically the problem I´ve had my whole life, off and on. And that is, you can´t FORCE people to be friends with you. It takes 2. So, this is kind of my dilemma. Although I would really love doing it that way, as I hate the whole dating thing...and that doesn´t seem to work for me anyway...


_________________
"death is the road to awe"