Apparently I *STILL* don't get it!

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I think it's more a city thing. I used to live in New York and sometimes go up there. City people act different.

Except for the touchiness. That bugs the crap out of me.

I think it IS a city thing, especially certain cities, like NY and LA. People are SOOOOOO friggin phony, obsessed with appearances and how others perceive them, and always looking to 'network'. There doesn't seem to be any room in these people's lives for actually making friends.

Taking a guess, it might be the sheer size of the city that does it. Everyone's this ant in an anthill, with everyone going about their business. There's millions of people they could pass by every day, so why stop to talk to everyone? So if someone wants attention, they have to stand out. Make contacts so they can try and branch out, get noticed. Sort of an act of desperation.

I remember how insignificant I always felt standing in NYC. Then I did something goofy and got someones attention by accident. I can't imagine what it would be like if I wasn't naturally different.

Now see... I think that this is the way the public at large behaves. It may be amplified in big cities like NY, but I live in a little bitty town in the middle of rural no where in Canada..... people still act more or less the same way as what you are describing in the "big city". Perhaps it is a matter of scale? Maybe it is just less subtle in the bigger city centers?

Oh yes... Maybe I also just "don't get it" because I am viewing things from some odd perspective, too! Gotta toss that one in there.... I hate to really be so insistant that there is no good reason for these behaviors when I seem to be in a minority when I consider them to be "odd" or "shallow". Does that make sense?

I actually LIKED NYC in the beginning for how easy it is for anyone, even a stuck-in-the-1940s societal pariah like myself, to blend in. However, after being here nearly two decades, I'm actually beginning to ENJOY the occasional weird look or comment I get for being so strange!

Yeah, it's easy for an aspie. While everyone's trying to come up with a different drum beat to dance to, we've got whole orchestras of weirdness.

Haha....don't I know it...one of the GOOD things about New Yorkers is the way they all so desperately WANT to be different. As a result, I'm 'cooler' here than I ever was anyplace else!

Over the years i have learned to decode conversation by comparing social protocols with network protocols, bits and pieces of code that are designed to make computers talk, created by mostly regular people.

You have the underlaying transport protocol that take care about the states ("Do you want to talk to me/be talked to?") and the data carrying packets that send the actual information.

Example:

* Initialisation:
SYN: Hello, how are you?
SYN-ACK: I am fine thank you, how are you?
ACK: Great. Lets get to business shall we?

* Termination
FIN: I need to go now. Bye!
RST: Bye!

So, watching for similarities in other communication protocols have helped me a bit to understand social chit-chat. Even animals interacting on the Discovery channel/National Geographic is a great source of learning social interaction

My mom and sis were the only ones who ever told me I was doing stuff wrong. Everybody else would just let me do whatever and not care that I need to learn these social cues by experience, and I think that I'm doing stuff right if I'm not corrected!

I live in the SF Bay Area, which is a pretty big metropolis. I pretty much live under a rock, I admit, so I'm not seeing everything. But, about once a year, we drive down to San Diego, which is sound of LA. It's about a 6-8 hour drive. Going through the LA area, I'm always amazed at how many billboard ads there are for plastic surgery and things that have to do with body image and that kind of thing. My impression, driving through, is that it's a whole different mindset. In the SF Bay area, I don't see that. The emphasis there seems to be on being "green" (only not that much).

I'm so sorry to hear about your 'plight' with NTs (really, I am, I know exactly where you are coming from, i've lost most ability to try and engage people to develop friendships).

All I can say is that ALL humans, aspies and NTs alike, are 100% self serving, no matter how 'kind' or 'humble' you are.

I think thats part of whats made it so difficult for me being an aspie. I watch social interaction from afar, and well, most of the way people interact is completely in their own best interest, I don't think people are even aware of how self-serving their actions are. Couple this 'normal' behaviour to someone with aspergers (and the NTs not knowing you have as) and i've had nothing but disaster.

I've been hurt so many times, and used so many times, that for a while i've completely isolated myself from basically anybody (which was a BAD idea, as I now stand completely friendless, and very lonely).

I know theres probably very little I can do to help you, but I feel for you, which is why I am writing this post. All I can suggest is to try and train yourself to understand that peoples actions aren't necessarily meant to be malignant, most people aren't even aware of the consequences of their actions to others (and esp. being an aspie, myself at least, I have had to learn to stop taking times so literally and personally).

Thats just how people are, all I can do to cope is try and train myself to ignore/discard the negative actions that most people aren't even aware they are commiting.

And yes, I know I am pretty jaded to say that everyone unknowingly hurts those around them, but from my observations, at the end of the day, its all about their best interests, theres no two ways about it

I'd have to disagree. A lot of people are like that, sure. But if it's not a conscious choice to choose oneself over others, can they really be blamed? Flipping a coin and picking heads or tails doesn't make you guilty of the ultimate outcome, why blame the unknown?

We have to be self serving to a point, that's true. If we weren't we'd all die. But I think people really do care about the others around them. We all, aspies and neurotypicals alike, just have trouble understanding each other. You can't see the whole box from one perspective, right?

I agree that Aspies and NTs do, and always WILL have trouble understanding each other, and in general, people, no matter how similar any two might be, will never fully understand why others do what they do. Hell, I don't know about the rest of you, but I don't even get why *I* do what I do sometimes. But so far as people caring about others around them...I'll agree that MANY do, but certainly not all. Unfortunately, a lot of people are completely self-serving, because it works for them...and no, I'll never understand THAT in the slightest. But some folks are just like that, and I've been unfortunate enough to meet both Aspies AND NTs who fit into that category.

I have to agree with Dentu on this point. HiTech, I know how easy it is to become jaded. I have been there before thinking and feeling very similar things to what you have described. Choosing a "side" isn't meant to debase your feelings. In a nut shell.... I think maybe Dentu and myself are tyring to help you have a little more positive feeling about the motives of people as a "whole". NT or Aspie aside, we are all human beings. We all have the same primal erges to do things like find food and shelter, have relationships, etc.... I feel like I am beating a dead horse every time I state this, but people with AS just percieve things/view things in ways that are not conventional to the way most NT folks percieve/view things. That is obvious... With this in mind, you have already "won" in the sense that you are able to reason through what an NT person is likely thinking or not thinking!! Instead of taking that "skill" and using it to fan the flames that are making you feel separate and lonely, why not use some of that "skill" to find some friends?

I find that as an adult I have a much easier time meeting people and making friends. I am not "good at it" by any means and I don't have a lot of friends, but I have a few!! ! There is another thread on here someplace about going out and getting involved in "planned activities" that are stilted towards special interests. Clubs and things like that. I will find the link and paste it in another entry..... My point is this:

Perhaps it would do you some good to attempt to connect with some people who at least share a common interest with you! Meeting up with a group or club keeps the conversations focused on a specific topic or area of interest and it also allows you to be an "expert" in an area you are interested in! I belong to a quilting guild! I can go on and on and on about sewing and quilting, show off things I have made and learn from others who also quilt and sew. I am only expected to spend one day a month with these folks and that suits me just fine because once a month is about all of the NT interaction I can handle anyhow!! See what I am trying to say? I feel good for going and no one notices that I am a little "weird" or "awkward".

I'll shut up and go find the link for that other thread!

Keep your head up there Hi Tech!! !