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Electric_Kite
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11 Nov 2009, 4:00 am

I wonder if the subject in question was really taking pleasure in the tormented/bullied person's pain, or if it was more the fun of 'pushing buttons.' I've occasionally been a little fascinated with doing things that get a consistent, predictable reaction from others. Not necessarily because the reaction itself is all that desirable, but because having a measure of control over one's environment is.



11 Nov 2009, 5:45 am

I never said anything about having pleasure. I said about not feeling anything.



BruceCM
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11 Nov 2009, 6:20 am

With all these replies, may I ask if you did read them all & find any helpful? :)



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11 Nov 2009, 9:11 am

According to Profile of sociopath or Wiki article you'd need to have the majority of those characteristics to be regarded as one. Problems with empathy means having reduced mirror neuron activity in the brain's inferior frontal gyrus, probably having mild case of alexithymia, etc. Had you REALLY been a sociopath, you surely would not have started this thread at all.

NTs used to laugh at me for being clumsy and falling over all the time - yet no one called them sociopaths.



11 Nov 2009, 9:42 am

BruceCM wrote:
With all these replies, may I ask if you did read them all & find any helpful? :)



Yeah I read them. I wasn't expecting the "lack of empathy of AS" part. I was expecting to hear other say if they ever feel like one or not. I know I'm not one but I sometimes feel like I am due to not feeling anything for someone or feeling what they feel. Sometimes I feel bad for not feeling anything. So here I am having feelings for not having feelings for something.


Quote:
I've occasionally been a little fascinated with doing things that get a consistent, predictable reaction from others. Not necessarily because the reaction itself is all that desirable, but because having a measure of control over one's environment is.


I did that at work this morning. This lady who doesn't even speak English doesn't like us throwing our trash in her whale so she started to hide it from us. I thought she was being lazy because what's wrong with throwing extra trash away? We were told to dump trash in any whale we see so we were doing that. So we were leaving and our supervisor spots the whale and there is the lady again cleaning. So I rush out of the freight elevator area with the trash and the lady is shouting in Vietnamese and I am laughing as I run to the whale and toss the trash in. I did this to make her shout in her language and to get her mad and I was laughing and so were the others in the group. Then the lady tosses our trash out so our supervisor talks to her and he understood her signals and what was going on. Then he told me what I did was not very nice and it can get me fired and I caused a scene, people were watching. He didn't think it was that funny while the others thought it was.

Yeah I do things to certain people to make them mad and stuff when I think they're stupid or mean or bullies, etc. I just thought the lady was lazy because she couldn't handle throwing away two extra trash bags. So I thought f**k it, I'll just toss the trash in there anyway to make her shout in her language. After all we are just doing what we are told to do.



Last edited by Spokane_Girl on 12 Nov 2009, 1:42 am, edited 2 times in total.

BruceCM
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11 Nov 2009, 10:34 am

OK, well, I don't 'feel like a sociopath' & know I do care about people. Plenty of NTs have the sort of problem you mention, actually; not feeling what they think they should or feeling what they think they shouldn't! Sorry, I'm not quite up to an exposition on it & merely wish to encourage you that you are, clearly, not a sociopath & don't worry about it. Hope it helps to find others do have some similar sorts of experience &/or say the sort of thing I am doing. :)



Tacobean
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12 Nov 2009, 1:33 am

I don't think you are a sociopath at all and are probably acting from a mixture of responses that are quite autistic and not sociopathic at all. I've been procrastinating about doing a degree in psyche just so I could work on the definition of empathy and sociopathy to be changed. Having been the victim of many a sociopath, I can assure you that these people do have empathy, it isn't applied with any thought for the person they are comprehending - that is, with no compassion whatsoever. They use these empathic readings for their own advantage, manipulations and mind games to make themselves feel the control they desire. Your self thought has little to do with this but rather is a natural human desire, to have security in the basic essentials, not something you are manipulating others to aquire.

Your actions against bullies, or the Vietnamese garbage lady seem like they are based in the justice mentality, rather than any bully mentality of your own. The fact you find her reactions funny isn't coming from knowing exactly how to push her buttons, but because it is pretty funny. I say that without regard for why she didn't throw out those two bags and thinking that no other harm would come of it. If she tripped and seriously hurt herself, although you may have trouble containing your laughter further, I'm sure underneath it all and especially after retrospect (that's where my empathy takes place anyhow, I'm the same as you at the time) you will feel compassion for her in some way, no matter how minor.

I've always had issues with laughing at people's slapstick accidents/injuries. I think a lot of the population has the same humour, if it weren't so, slapstick wouldn't be such a popular comedy genre. Your story of your husband's fall reminded me of seeing mine after his fall. Too tired not to fall asleep standing up in the shower, he ended up on the bathroom floor with the shower curtain wrapped around him like a toga. To this day we still both laugh about it, he wasn't hurt and it was reaaaaaallly funny.

From what I've read, it's not unusual for Aspies to have this kind of black humour. That said, sometimes I spontaneously laugh even though I don't really cognate the emotions, I've always thought it lack of empathy - that is emotional comprehension of others and alexathymia. It can be a difficult thing to control, but has nothing to do with sociopathy IMO.

Sorry for the rant, but I hope this makes sense :)



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12 Nov 2009, 3:17 am

If I'm dealing with trauma I feel like I'm in a world of sociopaths out to attack me.

Once I've gotten over whatever trauma I'm dealing with I get to feel like a sociopath again. I know I'm not really a sociopath but I at least get to enjoy feeling like one after recovery.

If that makes any sense.



CerebralDreamer
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12 Nov 2009, 7:52 am

From my understanding, sociopathy involved an intricate understanding of social structure combined with a blatant lack of respect for laws or morality. Not feeling anything is just being numb, especially if you feel bad about not feeling anything.

I don't think it's an issue over our morality, but we do sometimes treat it as such. (And, I have to admit, the idea of being a sociopath for a day does sound nice at times, particularly when I feel tormented by others.)



Tacobean
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12 Nov 2009, 9:00 am

To me, playing Grand Theft Auto is as close to experiencing sociopathy for a day as I get...otherwise it's mean thoughts about the person that harmed me for as long as it takes for me to work out who should be feeling bad. Revenge fantasies are sweet, but only in fantasy *L*



BruceCM
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12 Nov 2009, 9:05 am

Yeah, I never had the energy to hate people & bear grudges, especially since I'm not really a violent person & wouldn't be able to get my revenge that way. That's not to say it's easy to deal with the feelings that could have led that way, of course. :)



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12 Nov 2009, 9:29 am

The only revenge I've ever carried out was against my ex husband and it wasn't a planned thing, but spur of the moment. He'd thrown me and our year old daughter out so he could have his new girlfriend move in and I was there whilst they were at work to get what stuff of mine I could. On the bedroom drawers was his tube of Rectinol (for piles in your butt) and in the bathroom I found the Tiger's Balm linament (insanely hot stuff, can remove sensative skin). Adding a small amount of balm into the top of his rectinol tube was simple math really.

I never heard about it from him and if he hadn't used it I'm sure I would have...that's what I like to think anyhow.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Nov 2009, 3:06 pm

BruceCM wrote:
Yet you express concern about such things! Besides, isn't a sociopath not somebody who just does not care but someone who actively hates people? There is a big difference! Hope that helps? :lol:

A sociopath doesn't consciously go around admitting to hating people, yet, most of what they do suggests a callous disregard for the rights and opinions of others, even if they try to conceal it from time to time in order to get their way. Getting their way is the most important thing. They are very narcissistic. I't a common disorder. Many people are sociopathic. I am sure if you think back on people you have known, you can identify at least one sociopath.
Sociopaths can convince themselves they are good people and completely oblivious to the fact that what they do is harming others. Even when they are told it is, they will often try to charm their way around it so that you are convinced that you were mistaken and what the sociopath is doing is really the right thing.
There's a lot of deviousness in sociopaths, they put on this facade that's just that, a facade, while, when you aren't around or paying attention, they do everything they can think of to harm your reputation or destroy your property, what have you. I have known people like this and if you ever meet one, no matter how nice they can be, the best thing to do is to stop being friends with them if you are friends, divorce them if you are married, run the other way if you are aquaintances. Whatever you do, don't keep giving them a second chance because they will keep doing things that harm you. They cannot help this and will not change.



Demon-Chorus
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12 Nov 2009, 5:26 pm

BruceCM wrote:
Yet you express concern about such things! Besides, isn't a sociopath not somebody who just does not care but someone who actively hates people? There is a big difference! Hope that helps?


A person who hates and distrusts humanity is called a misanthrope, misanthropy =/= psychopathy.

BruceCM wrote:
Yeah, I never had the energy to hate people & bear grudges, especially since I'm not really a violent person & wouldn't be able to get my revenge that way.


You don't have to be violent to hate people, nor do you have to seek revenge. If I hate a person I shun them, there is no aggression or revenge plans.

Also hatred, rage and anger are normal emotions, everyone feels them, it's how you go about dealing with them.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Getting their way is the most important thing. They are very narcissistic.


Correct.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I't a common disorder. Many people are sociopathic.


The way alot of people act, I have to wonder how common it really is.

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
Sociopaths can convince themselves they are good people and completely oblivious to the fact that what they do is harming others.


Actually they know full well what they are doing, they just don't care, remember they are narcissistic, they only care about themselves.


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ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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12 Nov 2009, 5:40 pm

That's what I mean. They are narcissistic, so they convince themselves, and sometimes others, too, that putting themselves first is human nature "everybody does it" so it's the right thing to do. They don't believe they are in the wrong because they are just looking out for number one (like everyone else). This is how a lot of them believe what they do is the right thing.



BruceCM
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12 Nov 2009, 5:44 pm

I meant the conscious & deliberate choice to hate people, not a feeling you deal with. Sure, I could plan to get revenge in other than violent ways but I don't really have the skills or motivation for it. Everyone may feel it to some extent but others clearly do so more than I do, which is neither their fault nor my credit. That much is the way you're born, your personality & upbringing - what you do about it is your choice, etc. Complex subject & I'm trying to keep my replies short!