Trying something new to land a job

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Quartz11
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24 Mar 2010, 3:12 pm

So - long story short, I got fired from a job three weeks ago. Looking for another full time position, yet again. I really don't enjoy having such a spotty work history (numerous short stints at places, being unemployed 22 of the last 34 months).

After this last firing, my father and grandmother immediately blamed the AS and depression - then decided it was a good idea to go back to my former boss and admit these things. Basically that was the start of them trying to keep convincing myself that I have AS, and then start using that to advantage - rather than trying to play to the same rules as NTs. We'll get back to this in a minute...

I read somewhere that 80% of people nowadays get jobs by knowing someone somewhere who gets them in the door and in a position. Having AS is bad enough, the lack of networking skills and capability. Living in a rural area combined with being in a very tight knit, introverted, controlling family... I pretty much have nothing.

Since I don't really have an idea what I want to do with my life - I end up floating towards temporary staffing agencies. I at least impress someone there enough to try and help me out, sometimes.

In at least one case - I've found out I've been red flagged by an agency. Both companies which I was assigned to from this agency gave me negative reviews - not because of poor effort but because they've spotted the signs of AS (such as failure to make eye contact, and difficulty in communication.) As a result, this particular agency refuses to help me. I only know this, because the son of my father's boss briefly had a job at said staffing company, then saw my file was red flagged for various issues due to the AS. I lost the desire to work with these people again anyway, so I never bothered trying to explain what happened.


So - now I decided to start mentioning to these people that I have AS, and have them try and help me get a position best suited for my needs. Such as, one with not as much communication and personal contact required. Explain to these people that I don't interview well, don't make eye contact much when talking - but still can perform tasks fairly good. Hopefully if these people understand me, I won't be cast aside at the interview stage or quickly cut from a company.

Is this a good idea, or a bad idea?


And since I'm making the topic - anyone out there in CT, MA, or perhaps RI that are aware of people/groups that help people with AS get job placement?



Last edited by Quartz11 on 24 Mar 2010, 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.

PlatedDrake
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24 Mar 2010, 3:18 pm

What's helped me is going a case management group, then they got me in with Vocational Rehabilitation. Now if your previous jobs have you red-flagged, and you can prove it, you can press charges (depending the type of assistance you get). As for telling them about AS, that could cut both ways (making things worse, or opening some eyes), but its a very risky play.



Quartz11
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24 Mar 2010, 3:26 pm

What I had heard - from my father through his boss through her son - was that on my file, it said I did not make eye contact and had poor communication skills. And as a result, neither company which I had been assigned to wants me back, the two companies combine for 90% of this agency's work. However, I had never told a previous or potential employer (until this month) that I had AS. So basically, I looked like a crazy antisocial NT.

With the interview today I had at a staffing group - I had said what positions I was interested in, and what type of work I had did. I had mentioned I wasn't well equipped to have a position with a lot of phone calls, due to poor communication skills as a result of AS. She didn't know what it was, so I just said I can work with computers and have positions that require little contact with other people. If need be, I can explain more to her via e-mail.



Merle
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07 Apr 2010, 6:40 pm

Quartz11 wrote:
So - long story short, I got fired from a job three weeks ago. Looking for another full time position, yet again. I really don't enjoy having such a spotty work history (numerous short stints at places, being unemployed 22 of the last 34 months).


The short stints are red flags when looking at a resume. It raises questions about reliability and dedication to a job.

Quote:
After this last firing, my father and grandmother immediately blamed the AS and depression - then decided it was a good idea to go back to my former boss and admit these things. Basically that was the start of them trying to keep convincing myself that I have AS, and then start using that to advantage - rather than trying to play to the same rules as NTs. We'll get back to this in a minute...


Hell no. Not only is this a personality/morale crusher - it doesn't change the motivation of an employer.

Quote:
I read somewhere that 80% of people nowadays get jobs by knowing someone somewhere who gets them in the door and in a position. Having AS is bad enough, the lack of networking skills and capability. Living in a rural area combined with being in a very tight knit, introverted, controlling family... I pretty much have nothing.


It's not what you know it's who you know? Yes, networking can help get your foot in the door. However, if you stammer and look like an idiot during an interview, little will save you.

Quote:
Since I don't really have an idea what I want to do with my life - I end up floating towards temporary staffing agencies. I at least impress someone there enough to try and help me out, sometimes.


Figure out what you like to do, not what can you do (that'll come later). Even stupid things (like gardening) can lead to productive careers (like landscaping).

Quote:
In at least one case - I've found out I've been red flagged by an agency. Both companies which I was assigned to from this agency gave me negative reviews - not because of poor effort but because they've spotted the signs of AS (such as failure to make eye contact, and difficulty in communication.) As a result, this particular agency refuses to help me. I only know this, because the son of my father's boss briefly had a job at said staffing company, then saw my file was red flagged for various issues due to the AS. I lost the desire to work with these people again anyway, so I never bothered trying to explain what happened.


It happens. You can be red flagged (or black listed) because of a review by an employer, even if the review is unfounded (e.g. the person you sent sucked so bad that we had to let them go, but never mind, we just wanted to negotiate a cheaper rate with some free hours kicked in).

Quote:
So - now I decided to start mentioning to these people that I have AS, and have them try and help me get a position best suited for my needs. Such as, one with not as much communication and personal contact required. Explain to these people that I don't interview well, don't make eye contact much when talking - but still can perform tasks fairly good. Hopefully if these people understand me, I won't be cast aside at the interview stage or quickly cut from a company.

Is this a good idea, or a bad idea?


I think it's a bad idea. You're bringing to light a flaw and as an employer, I would begin too examine that flaw more closely in addition looking for other flaws which you haven't brought to light. If it comes up (AFTER you get the job) then you could bring it up. But in today's economy, many agencies are looking for ways to screen candidates and only provide the best resources to firms. In addition, firms know they can pick from the litter and you downgrading yourself merely helps them and not you.



Quartz11
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10 Apr 2010, 7:38 pm

Yea, I'm aware the spotty work history is not good. At least for my sake, there is a part time position which has remained a steady constant for two and a half years now. Unfortunately, it does not pay well - hence needing to find full time work in addition.

As for the rest of it - I repeatedly get my morale crushed by various family members. Instead of encouraging me, they keep holding disability and weakness over my head. I just go out and already expect failure. Kind of difficult to find work when you have no hope as soon as you leave the door.



Merle
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12 Apr 2010, 11:26 am

BTW, do you do...

Nov-2008 to Jan-2009
Mar-2009 to Jun-2009
Aug-2009 to Feb-2010

on your resume?

If you do, don't. This pretty much highlights gaps in employment. Just use the years, for example:

2008-2009
2009
2009-2010

Looks much better. Now, some people may claim it raises a flag but when a person is going through a few (10? 20?) resumes at a time, we're just looking for reasons to exclude, and the first situation is a reason to exclude. Questions about "when" you worked in those years "may" get held to the interview - but the resume screening is the first typical hurdle which you're trying to overcome.



Reducto
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12 Apr 2010, 3:04 pm

Vocational training would probably be the way to go here. As pointless and annoying as many of the social niceties may seem, they are necessary for navigating society. Focus on learning to make (or at least fake) eye contact and on learning how to make small talk. The good thing is people often base a lot of their opinion of someone off their first impression, so a little extra effort in the beginning can make up for your natural tendencies later on.

It helps me to think in terms of what an employer is looking for in me. First, they want to feel a rapport with me so they know I'll be able to take instruction. Next, they want to be able to hand off a task and know it will be completed. Finally, they want to not be bothered - if I have to keep coming to them with questions, that's a hassle. If something comes to them with a problem that I caused (a task not being completed on time or someone taking offense at my behavior) that reflects badly on them. So I try to make sure that doesn't happen.

If you do disclose your AS be sure to do it in a way that gives them some hope and options - don't say "I can't make eye contact", say something like "Eye contact doesn't come naturally to me and it's something I'm working on. "



zer0netgain
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13 Apr 2010, 6:37 am

I feel for you.

I just put in for three openings in the Magistrate's office (judges). I'm more than qualified, and I was previously interviewed for two Magistrate and one Chief Magistrate position. Never got hired.

I'm concerned on so many levels.

1. Will I get interviewed? If not, is it because they just don't want me or is it because in this bad economy there is a ton of people even more qualified than I am?

2. If I get an interview, how will I do? I don't disclose AS, and I wonder if I can "pull it off" and get one of the openings. If I am offered the job, will I want to accept it? I know I need the better pay, benefits, etc., but I'm in a place I know will be there for me and I'm in no danger of losing my job.

3. If I take the job, will I regret it? Will I be out of work in 6-12 months (my pre-AS awareness track record)?



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13 Apr 2010, 6:50 am

[deleted duplicate post]



Last edited by zer0netgain on 14 Apr 2010, 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.

Quartz11
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14 Apr 2010, 10:43 am

Merle: I have been putting the months down on the resume. Or in a couple cases, seasons. I have been doing that on job applications as well.

Zero: I live in a rural area, and when I fill out an application at a local business - even though I'm way overqualified (hint: having a college education), there's at least 60 other people who seem to be applying for the same position. Recently, I filled one out - while seven other people were doing the same at the same time.

Knowing that, I've become massively discouraged from even looking. Simply because, why are they going to take the chance on an AS like myself when there's 59 NTs with better records in the pile.



Merle
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14 Apr 2010, 2:28 pm

Quartz11 wrote:
Merle: I have been putting the months down on the resume. Or in a couple cases, seasons. I have been doing that on job applications as well.

Knowing that, I've become massively discouraged from even looking. Simply because, why are they going to take the chance on an AS like myself when there's 59 NTs with better records in the pile.


Yeah, avoid putting the months down on resume's for the reasons I listed above. Just makes a person do a little numbers game in their head and bam - you're out of the running.

Applications are different. It's been a while since I filled one out, but they always seemed to have "Mo/Yr" on them and I filled it out to the best of my ability. You could try avoiding the "Mo" portion too.

For where I'm at...

HR screens for us, looking for key words in the resume (we get, as a company, ~7500/day last I heard a few years back)
I'll do a secondary screening looking for reasons to exclude (lack of specific skills, work experience, etc., ~10-20)
Prior to the interview I'll highlight sections (red for things I need clarification or want to talk about, green for good and yellow for things I'm not sure about) and keep track through notes (do the same, ask "would you mind if I take notes?")
I may do a phone screening at this point if the color shift isn't pretty or if we have a lot of candidates.
Assuming things are okay at this point, I'll schedule the rest of the team when they're done with their interview and get their notes. Typically this is 4-6 hours out of a candidates day, and of course a cost to the company too.
I will rarely over rule or veto.

But... if you can get past the first (HR) and second (resume screening) you'll do a lot better as most employers rarely go past 5-10 interviews (for single round) when trying to identify a candidate. Too much time/energy/resources. Companies which make you go 6-8 rounds (e.g. I had a co-worker interview at Yahoo) set you up for disappointment.



Quartz11
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14 Apr 2010, 5:07 pm

Well, speaking for myself:

I graduated from college in May 2007. I got a part time job at a local newspaper group in September of 07. I got a full time job at a company in early 2008, was laid off nine months later. I had no full time job for nearly a year - due to the piss poor economy, a bout with depression, and just being lousy at finding work and then not trying much. (I do a little above the minimum it takes to be qualified for unemployment in the state, but I could be trying a lot harder than I have been.)

I had a few short gigs during 2009, nothing lasting more than a couple weeks. I got a seasonal job for the fall of 2009, but was done there at New Years. I got brought back at my job from 2008, but only lasted about seven weeks there the second time around.

And now here I am again, unemployed and rather discouraged from even looking anywhere. The best I've done so far is go to the state, they have a service based out of their local unemployment office which assists the "disabled". However, my meeting with them is not for another month.



Merle
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14 Apr 2010, 6:54 pm

Quartz11 wrote:
Well, speaking for myself:

I graduated from college in May 2007. I got a part time job at a local newspaper group in September of 07. I got a full time job at a company in early 2008, was laid off nine months later. I had no full time job for nearly a year - due to the piss poor economy, a bout with depression, and just being lousy at finding work and then not trying much. (I do a little above the minimum it takes to be qualified for unemployment in the state, but I could be trying a lot harder than I have been.)

I had a few short gigs during 2009, nothing lasting more than a couple weeks. I got a seasonal job for the fall of 2009, but was done there at New Years. I got brought back at my job from 2008, but only lasted about seven weeks there the second time around.

And now here I am again, unemployed and rather discouraged from even looking anywhere. The best I've done so far is go to the state, they have a service based out of their local unemployment office which assists the "disabled". However, my meeting with them is not for another month.


It gets better :)

I was "let go" (terminated) back in the dot com bust of 2001 (maybe 2002). Couldn't find work for about 2 years, basically until the economy recovered.

First, finding jobs in a tough economic time is, well, tough. On the plus side, you can use that as a convenient excuse as many people will remember how bad it is/was. If asked about your gap in meaningful employment during this time - be honest and tell them "The economy was tough and I was constantly looking to land full time employment, even at the risk of looking like a job hopper. I had bills to pay and didn't want to wind up too far in debt in trying to make ends meet."

Second, for almost 2 years I just languished doing nothing in the beginnning. Find an outlet. There are going to be sports, activities, etc. you want to do -- so just go and do it. You need an outlet (for me, it was physical) which will help you overcome depression/anxiety and frustration. If you have time to learn something or do something which improves you, it's not a total loss. Lose weight, learn how to hike in the woods w/o getting lost, or pick up a computer skill.

Third, you're going to worry about your bills. I had over $40,000 in credit card debt by the time I started my next job (ah the calls of creditors ;)) Push comes to shove, you file for bankruptcy, but if you have integrity, you do pay them off as they were debts you incurred. I know couples now with >$100,000 in credit card bills - and this doesn't count mortgages or lines of credit tied to their homes (which they're planning on walking away) due to the inability of one or both partners to find meaningful work. If you get too far in with one credit card, call them and tell them - lock the card and have them lock the interest rate to 0% until you can pay. Don't fall for the "Well sir, can you make the minimum payments", as you just say "no".

We are in a downward cycle right now. Things are tough even for those with "mad skillz" and personable. Its not going to be any easier for someone with Aspergers/Autism (in fact, worse because you're competing with all the NT's out there). But the same applies to people with a few years experience under their belt, competing with those with 10-15 years experience.



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17 Apr 2010, 11:07 am

Luckily for me, I have no debts. I don't have much in savings though. This entire time I have been fortunate enough to be living with family, and they have been taking care of me. The part time job gets me enough money for fun time spending.

But, being in my mid 20s - eventually I would like to be able to live on my own. That is my main goal at this point.



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29 Apr 2010, 1:09 pm

Merle wrote:
Quartz11 wrote:
Well, speaking for myself:

I graduated from college in May 2007. I got a part time job at a local newspaper group in September of 07. I got a full time job at a company in early 2008, was laid off nine months later. I had no full time job for nearly a year - due to the piss poor economy, a bout with depression, and just being lousy at finding work and then not trying much. (I do a little above the minimum it takes to be qualified for unemployment in the state, but I could be trying a lot harder than I have been.)

I had a few short gigs during 2009, nothing lasting more than a couple weeks. I got a seasonal job for the fall of 2009, but was done there at New Years. I got brought back at my job from 2008, but only lasted about seven weeks there the second time around.

And now here I am again, unemployed and rather discouraged from even looking anywhere. The best I've done so far is go to the state, they have a service based out of their local unemployment office which assists the "disabled". However, my meeting with them is not for another month.


Merle, please be honest with us here. You are an interviewer yourself right? Here is my ultimate question to you. In your humble opinion are we ASDs employable anywhere at all or not especially in the US? Mere, what exactly do you recommend we do?
It gets better :)

I was "let go" (terminated) back in the dot com bust of 2001 (maybe 2002). Couldn't find work for about 2 years, basically until the economy recovered.

First, finding jobs in a tough economic time is, well, tough. On the plus side, you can use that as a convenient excuse as many people will remember how bad it is/was. If asked about your gap in meaningful employment during this time - be honest and tell them "The economy was tough and I was constantly looking to land full time employment, even at the risk of looking like a job hopper. I had bills to pay and didn't want to wind up too far in debt in trying to make ends meet."

Second, for almost 2 years I just languished doing nothing in the beginnning. Find an outlet. There are going to be sports, activities, etc. you want to do -- so just go and do it. You need an outlet (for me, it was physical) which will help you overcome depression/anxiety and frustration. If you have time to learn something or do something which improves you, it's not a total loss. Lose weight, learn how to hike in the woods w/o getting lost, or pick up a computer skill.

Third, you're going to worry about your bills. I had over $40,000 in credit card debt by the time I started my next job (ah the calls of creditors ;)) Push comes to shove, you file for bankruptcy, but if you have integrity, you do pay them off as they were debts you incurred. I know couples now with >$100,000 in credit card bills - and this doesn't count mortgages or lines of credit tied to their homes (which they're planning on walking away) due to the inability of one or both partners to find meaningful work. If you get too far in with one credit card, call them and tell them - lock the card and have them lock the interest rate to 0% until you can pay. Don't fall for the "Well sir, can you make the minimum payments", as you just say "no".

We are in a downward cycle right now. Things are tough even for those with "mad skillz" and personable. Its not going to be any easier for someone with Aspergers/Autism (in fact, worse because you're competing with all the NT's out there). But the same applies to people with a few years experience under their belt, competing with those with 10-15 years experience.



Merle
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29 Apr 2010, 7:18 pm

cubedemon6073 wrote:
Merle, please be honest with us here. You are an interviewer yourself right? Here is my ultimate question to you. In your humble opinion are we ASDs employable anywhere at all or not especially in the US?


Yes, I have been the "hiring manager" requiring interviews to fill positions in the US and abroad.

Blah blah blah...

In the "Technology Field", personality can take a back seat and can be ignored entirely depending upon the capabilities of the individual. For a "people manager" position, I would be hard pressed to hire an Aspie (without strong justification) due to the personal interactions required.

Right now, the company has 10,000+ people, assuming 1:100, that's 100 folks within the company. There's one person I can directly think of who has "people skills" issues - but their technical capabilities far outshine their personal interactions.

He works from home, a lot. I just got asked to act as a liason to him for a critical project for some engineers, go figure.

The interaction with India folks (e.g. shaking the head left-to-right is disconcerting when they're listening and acknowledging what you're saying) is challenging, to such an extent that it's almost entirely comprised of ASD folks if you didn't know better. But I know it's just cultural.

Quote:
Merle, what exactly do you recommend we do?


Any technical field is going to allow you to do well. The reliance upon what you can produce versus how you communicate/convey it will be great. You won't be able to pick your boss, so you may be hunting for jobs several times in your life, but you will hopefully wind up with a boss who recognizes your talent and helps compensate (e.g. they do the dog-and-pony shows w/ the Power Point presentations while they leave you with the technical work). But even with NT's, good bosses are difficult to find, identify and keep.

So...

> Get into a technical field where you can contribute as an IC (individual contributor).
> Try to find a boss who will recognize your talent(s) as a strength and not try to grow you in 100 different directions (e.g. "you need to work on your people skills, lets put that down for your H2 goals").
> Recognize you will not be at the same job, nor career in the future, you will change careers 3-5 times in your life.
> Careers where you can do your job from home are best, if only part of the time. The day-to-day distractions and dealing with people can become wearing and cause greater anxiety / problems impacting your overall productivity.

Anything with the word "support" (e.g. desktop, network) pretty much means working with people and putting on a friendly face. I'd avoid this for a long term career but it is nearly unavoidable as an entry level position. Even jobs that get outsourced (e.g. programmer) are going to remain in demand (for good people) in the US regardless of the state of the dollar.

HTH :)