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What do you identify as?
Feminist 66%  66%  [ 99 ]
Not A Feminist 17%  17%  [ 26 ]
Indifferent 16%  16%  [ 24 ]
Total votes : 149

Julia_the_Great
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02 Apr 2010, 7:01 pm

I am a pretty passionate feminist, and I'd like to get some opinions.


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CaroleTucson
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02 Apr 2010, 7:12 pm

Passionate here, too.

And we shouldn't have to say this, but being feminist doesn't mean "anti-male". In my opinion, being feminist has very little to do with men anyway.

And just for the record, I love men. I have plenty of men friends. I like having sex with them. Etc, etc.



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02 Apr 2010, 8:18 pm

I'm a feminist. And masculinist.
I don't want to be a man and I don't want to look like a man. I'm not against heels, make-up, long hair or dresses. They're pretty.
I don't want to change women to men. And vice versa. It's stupid.
Both sexes are different and it's beautiful. None of them is better or worse. We look different and think different and it's all equal.

I don't like when some features are considered as for men. F.e. BBC sex test when I scored 50 man. I'm not a man. It means only that I think spatial. I use my brain, I don't need balls to do it.
I'm sighter, picture-thinker and I see colour differences, really precisely. I don't remember the names, but I see. I'm proud of it. Some girls aren't, because colours are sooo woman (!)
I laugh at women who are proud they have man score, because they feel better. And I laugh at men who scored women and they're ashamed. What stupid it is!

I don't like sex stereotypes, for both sexes. I don't like airhead blondie, housewife 3K and ultramacho afraid of soap. People, do you really believe in it?

And do you really believe in toys only for girls/boys?
I remember when I was little girl and I had remote-controlled tank. I played with it outdoors and one woman told me:
Woman: Why do you play with a tank?
Valoy: Don't you see how it's great?!
W: You are a girl!
V: Yes, I am
W: So you should play with doll
V: Why?
W: Don't you want to be a mum?
V: Maybe someday. When I'm old and boring, just like you. Now I love my tank! :heart:

I don't like parents who dress their daughters in light dresses and forbid them to play, because of dirt. When to play, have fun and be dirty if not in childhood?


Do you know these songs?:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=44FH9LHg0bg[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kU1DChtdXk0[/youtube]

Here is video of first band, they laugh at oversexual videos with women. I'm against using both sexes as things. We are alive persons, not things.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OfPQK1eeAw[/youtube]


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Tim_Tex
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02 Apr 2010, 9:42 pm

Male, but consider myself feminist in that women should have all the economic and social opportunities as men.


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mechanicalgirl39
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03 Apr 2010, 6:03 am

Valoyossa wrote:
I'm a feminist. And masculinist.
I don't want to be a man and I don't want to look like a man. I'm not against heels, make-up, long hair or dresses. They're pretty.
I don't want to change women to men. And vice versa. It's stupid.
Both sexes are different and it's beautiful. None of them is better or worse. We look different and think different and it's all equal.

I don't like when some features are considered as for men. F.e. BBC sex test when I scored 50 man. I'm not a man. It means only that I think spatial. I use my brain, I don't need balls to do it.
I'm sighter, picture-thinker and I see colour differences, really precisely. I don't remember the names, but I see. I'm proud of it. Some girls aren't, because colours are sooo woman (!)
I laugh at women who are proud they have man score, because they feel better. And I laugh at men who scored women and they're ashamed. What stupid it is!

I don't like sex stereotypes, for both sexes. I don't like airhead blondie, housewife 3K and ultramacho afraid of soap. People, do you really believe in it?

And do you really believe in toys only for girls/boys?
I remember when I was little girl and I had remote-controlled tank. I played with it outdoors and one woman told me:
Woman: Why do you play with a tank?
Valoy: Don't you see how it's great?!
W: You are a girl!
V: Yes, I am
W: So you should play with doll
V: Why?
W: Don't you want to be a mum?
V: Maybe someday. When I'm old and boring, just like you. Now I love my tank! :heart:

I don't like parents who dress their daughters in light dresses and forbid them to play, because of dirt. When to play, have fun and be dirty if not in childhood?



Yay, you're like me. Let's start the tomboys club!! :D

Thankfully, my mom didn't force gender roles on me. I had baby dolls, sure, but I also loved toy soldiers and building blocks.


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Lene
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03 Apr 2010, 9:12 am

Absolutely. I think you should have equal status and respect regardless of gender or race. I don't support 'female supremecy' but I definitely do not agree with people who complain that it's "gone too far the other way now". We may be equal in some ways, but we still haven't achieved full equality as far as respect and equal pay goes.

To be honest, I think some women make it harder for others to get treated fairly. Take women who get a new job and then immediately go on paid maternity leave, leaving their employer to have to find someone else to do her job. Yes, it's their right to procreate, but that sends out a message to employers that women are flakey and there's no point in hiring a woman of childbearing age. They won't say as much openly, but I've definitely heard comments like this 'off the books'. You could argue that they are being prejudiced etc, but realistically, they're running a buisiness. It doesn't make sense to pay an employee for doing nothing, and like it or not, it's going to have a knock-on effect as to who they employ in future.

I think there should be a system that if you have worked a certain number of years, you are entitled to paid maternity leave. If you have worked less, then you should get leave but no pay, and then if you've only just started, you shouldn't be paid or expect your job back.

Sorry if that sounds harsh; I'm not trying to have a go at working mothers, and I do realise that women have different biological clocks than men, and that we're often the ones left 'holding the baby', but I think the way to solve that is that men should be entitled to more paternity leave and expected to do their share of raising the kid as well; if your career has to suffer because you have kids, then both partners should be prepared to accept that (unless they personally want to have a different arrangement).

Er, anyway, that was a bit off topic. Regards to the original question, I'm an old-fashioned feminist. Not the 'empowerment through pole-dancing' kind



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03 Apr 2010, 2:27 pm

Yes, very feminist. I work with mostly men; many different jobs. When a man with less experience/skill than me gets promoted over me, or gets paid more, it upsets me. :evil:



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03 Apr 2010, 3:19 pm

zee wrote:
Yes, very feminist. I work with mostly men; many different jobs. When a man with less experience/skill than me gets promoted over me, or gets paid more, it upsets me. :evil:



When a woman's word is considered to be valid by default just because she's female(as in he said/she said disputes), THAT upsets Me. :evil: I've noticed that men in positions of authority, be they bosses or judges, will side with women whenever she claims to be "threatened" by a man who she simply dislikes and wants to get rid of.
I live in the US where AFAIC the advantage has shifted in favor of women for people of my generation. Now I recognize that for past generations this very well may NOT be true, but I do believe that for teenagers and 20somethings the social advantage is clearly in women's favor.



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03 Apr 2010, 3:42 pm

To me, a woman calling herself a feminist sounds like she's more concerned about women and women's issues than men. The very word puts up a dividing wall between men and women instead of breaking it down. I don't like the term, and would not use if for myself. I do not think badly of women who use the term, nor judge them based on their use of the term. It's attitudes that matter, not the labels put on them.

It's different with men using the term. I guess the being male and the term balance out. And it's easy to take as given that a guy who's says he's a feminist anti-male. With women, you don't know. Not if all you have is that word and nothing else.

Sometimes I think of myself as a post-feminist. I see men and women as equal and gender difference as not important, and I think this builds on the feminism that was around in my childhood years (the 70s). Post-feminism because it builds on feminism, and yet is something different.

And sometimes I think that's just me being an aspie (or part aspie) and being clueless to some social stuff.


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Alycat
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03 Apr 2010, 4:22 pm

Mysty wrote:
To me, a woman calling herself a feminist sounds like she's more concerned about women and women's issues than men. The very word puts up a dividing wall between men and women instead of breaking it down. I don't like the term, and would not use if for myself. I do not think badly of women who use the term, nor judge them based on their use of the term. It's attitudes that matter, not the labels put on them.

I agree with this.
I see a lot of feminists either want to have women as being more important and men as less important (which is just as bad as having men more important and women less important). I also see feminists who want to pretend men and women are EXACTLY the same.

I think men and women are different. I like that they are different. Different but equal.


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Rose_in_Winter
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03 Apr 2010, 5:01 pm

Mysty wrote:
I see men and women as equal and gender difference as not important, and I think this builds on the feminism that was around in my childhood years (the 70s). Post-feminism because it builds on feminism, and yet is something different.


This would be your basic feminism. It's a shame that feminist has come to mean man-hater, or someone who thinks women are superior. A true feminist simply wants men and women treated as equals -- equal pay for equal work, and so on. I think there are women out there who are feminists and don't know it. I encountered this in high school, when my classmates challenged me on what being a feminist meant. When I said it's simply the belief that men and women are equal and should be treated thus, several of the boys exclaimed, "THAT'S not a feminist!" Um...yes, it is.

I always liked the sentiment, "Feminism is the radical idea that women are people," a lot.



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03 Apr 2010, 6:19 pm

Rose_in_Winter wrote:
Mysty wrote:
I see men and women as equal and gender difference as not important, and I think this builds on the feminism that was around in my childhood years (the 70s). Post-feminism because it builds on feminism, and yet is something different.


This would be your basic feminism. It's a shame that feminist has come to mean man-hater, or someone who thinks women are superior. A true feminist simply wants men and women treated as equals -- equal pay for equal work, and so on. I think there are women out there who are feminists and don't know it. I encountered this in high school, when my classmates challenged me on what being a feminist meant. When I said it's simply the belief that men and women are equal and should be treated thus, several of the boys exclaimed, "THAT'S not a feminist!" Um...yes, it is.

I always liked the sentiment, "Feminism is the radical idea that women are people," a lot.


First, feminism isn't always the idea of men and women being equal / treated as equal.

Second, if the idea is for men and women to be equal, well, a label that focuses on only females isn't appropriate.

Perhaps feminism is about women becoming equal to men. But that's not the same as the idea that we are all equal, regardless of gender.


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03 Apr 2010, 6:58 pm

Mysty wrote:
Rose_in_Winter wrote:
Mysty wrote:
First, feminism isn't always the idea of men and women being equal / treated as equal.

Second, if the idea is for men and women to be equal, well, a label that focuses on only females isn't appropriate.

Perhaps feminism is about women becoming equal to men. But that's not the same as the idea that we are all equal, regardless of gender.


Basic feminism, feminism at it's root, is the belief that men and women are equal, and deserve equal treatment. My mother was a early feminist, and this is the definition she used and passed on to me. Of course there are other kinds of feminism. But they aren't "basic" feminism.

I agree that "feminist" is a poor choice. I have one friend who follows the above definition of feminism, but calls herself "humanist." I think feminism was chosen because it was women who had been opressed and needed more rights, not men. However, I certainly see the argument as to why a different name might have been better...but I doubt Gloria Steinem et al. were worried about that; they were more worried about getting young women to be politically active, and about all kinds of issues (including sexual slavery, human trafficking, and women's health) that affect women worldwide. Things that have too often gone by the wayside in the battle over what feminism is/should be!

Men and women are different. Our bodies are different. Our brains are different. Our concerns are different. None of that means we should not be treated as equals. Women deserve equal pay for equal work. Women deserve to have medications tested for us, not just for men (as many are). Women deserve to have diseases that occur more often in us than in men (breast cancer) get as much research devoted to them as diseases that effect primarily or only men (prostate cancer) do. It's still a man's world. This is changing, gradually...however, I worry that giving feminism a bad name will discourage young women from taking action, out of fear of being labeled a bra-burning man-hater. That's why many women state clearly that to them, feminism is about equality, and not about degrading men, hating men, or making women superior to men,



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03 Apr 2010, 8:15 pm

Lene wrote:
Absolutely. I think you should have equal status and respect regardless of gender or race. I don't support 'female supremecy' but I definitely do not agree with people who complain that it's "gone too far the other way now". We may be equal in some ways, but we still haven't achieved full equality as far as respect and equal pay goes.

To be honest, I think some women make it harder for others to get treated fairly. Take women who get a new job and then immediately go on paid maternity leave, leaving their employer to have to find someone else to do her job. Yes, it's their right to procreate, but that sends out a message to employers that women are flakey and there's no point in hiring a woman of childbearing age. They won't say as much openly, but I've definitely heard comments like this 'off the books'. You could argue that they are being prejudiced etc, but realistically, they're running a buisiness. It doesn't make sense to pay an employee for doing nothing, and like it or not, it's going to have a knock-on effect as to who they employ in future.

I think there should be a system that if you have worked a certain number of years, you are entitled to paid maternity leave. If you have worked less, then you should get leave but no pay, and then if you've only just started, you shouldn't be paid or expect your job back.

Sorry if that sounds harsh; I'm not trying to have a go at working mothers, and I do realise that women have different biological clocks than men, and that we're often the ones left 'holding the baby', but I think the way to solve that is that men should be entitled to more paternity leave and expected to do their share of raising the kid as well; if your career has to suffer because you have kids, then both partners should be prepared to accept that (unless they personally want to have a different arrangement).

Er, anyway, that was a bit off topic. Regards to the original question, I'm an old-fashioned feminist. Not the 'empowerment through pole-dancing' kind


Agreed. How are you going to have equality there when women get all the maternity leave and men get, what, 2 weeks?


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03 Apr 2010, 8:23 pm

MEATGRINDER wrote:
zee wrote:
Yes, very feminist. I work with mostly men; many different jobs. When a man with less experience/skill than me gets promoted over me, or gets paid more, it upsets me. :evil:



When a woman's word is considered to be valid by default just because she's female(as in he said/she said disputes), THAT upsets Me. :evil: I've noticed that men in positions of authority, be they bosses or judges, will side with women whenever she claims to be "threatened" by a man who she simply dislikes and wants to get rid of.
I live in the US where AFAIC the advantage has shifted in favor of women for people of my generation. Now I recognize that for past generations this very well may NOT be true, but I do believe that for teenagers and 20somethings the social advantage is clearly in women's favor.


What are you basing all this on? :roll:
Definately not on my post, anyway.



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04 Apr 2010, 1:51 am

Mysty wrote:
To me, a woman calling herself a feminist sounds like she's more concerned about women and women's issues than men. The very word puts up a dividing wall between men and women instead of breaking it down.


There already is a social wall (sometimes referred to as a glass ceiling) between men and women; feminism just points this out.

That said, there's a lot that our culture does to screw men over, too, and it would be nice if there were some sort of all-gender movement that worked on better human rights and acceptance for everybody, instead of the women getting together in women's studies classes and the men getting together in drumming circles and the trans/gay people getting together in pride marches, and no one talking to each other about how the whole construct of men-do-y, women-do-x hurts everybody (pun intended).

My brother got three weeks of paternity leave when my niece was born, and it was really good not only for him but for the whole family. It's astonishing that 'paternity leave' for a new baby is still a fairly novel idea.