"Longterm Relationships are not worth the effort"

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RICKY5
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01 Jul 2010, 11:23 pm

Taken from another site and scrubbed for content. Think about it and debate it. I don't totally agree with everything the author says but he has a point that relationships are subject to the law of diminishing returns.

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1] Any technique of obtaining sex quickly, by design, selects for women who will drop their panties quickly. You are selecting for easy lays, as opposed to those with some self-control . If you can easily charm their clothes off, so can another guy.

2] The best sex almost always occurs in the first few months of a relationship. It then starts becoming routine and increasingly boring, eventually becoming little more than masturbating inside a woman.

3] LTR ‘game’ is a waste of time. Why expend all that effort on keeping her happy? You could always spend the same amount of time on getting a new girl.

4] All the ‘game’ in the world cannot save you from the effects of job loss, unexpected physical illness, accidents or other stuff beyond your control. What will you do if your ‘investment’ is undone by something beyond your control? Do you have any insurance or recourse?

5] What will you do if the LTR leaves you, for someone else, inspite of your best efforts and ‘investment’? What recourse do you have? What about child support payments, the legal wrangling, custody battles.. and all this because you were trying to be a decent human being?

6] CENSORED

7] Women give the best years of their life to guys who use them as free CENSORED. Only after starting to age badly, do they begin their search for ‘mr. right’. Would you pay the new car price for one with 200,000 miles on it?

9] Even if you do everything right, your LTR stays with you and the kids grow up OK… Where is the appreciation for your efforts and sacrifices? You see.. it is your ‘duty’ to take s**t so that a condescending hag can pop out a few kids and tell you how lucky you are to be with her.

10] What is your reward for doing the ‘right thing’.. or should I say is there a reward for doing the ‘right thing’?

You could do the ‘right thing’ or live life to its fullest on your terms. Do you know how much good sex can be bought with the amount you spend on your LTR and progeny? Think about the bigger homes, bigger cars, sexless vacations, the yard work, the investments, the saving and scrimping… what will all of that get you?

Look around you at all the desperate and unhappy men who are upholding and slaving for a system that treats them as expendable cogs. Want to join their ranks?

You did not choose to be born, but why let others decide how you live or die? Why give them that power when you are getting nothing better in return?

It is your passivity that give them power over your life.. Stand up for yourself, because nobody else will.

You may die in the worst case scenario, but everyone dies in the end.

Do you have anything to lose.. really?



foreveryoung
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01 Jul 2010, 11:46 pm

Ricky, you ever see the show Married With Children? You sound like Al Bundy and his friends (which is a compliment btw.)



HopeGrows
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01 Jul 2010, 11:53 pm

I believe the author is unfamiliar with the concepts of intimacy and commitment. Commitment is a decision to stay with someone, and to actively work through the issues that arise over the course of a relationship, and life in general. When you know that your partner is going to stay with you, and that you're both committed to each other's happiness, that leads to a deep and profound trust. And that trust leads to intimacy - intimacy is a key ingredient to keeping sex fresh and enjoyable throughout the course of a long term relationship.


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foreveryoung
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02 Jul 2010, 12:12 am

Men don't want that stuff though. Men want to experience as many attractive women as possible before they're too old to attract them, and even then, escorts are an option.



AngelRho
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02 Jul 2010, 12:12 am

I could be mistaken, but if that was taken from another WP thread it's entirely possible I participated in it at some point. LTR's are something I've had a modest degree of success in, so I welcome every opportunity to share my thoughts and respond.

It's not secret that I ascribe my successes to my faith. Despite a very rocky and often ugly start, my "gift from God" and I have been together off-and-on for over 10 years now, soon to be married for 5 years (we dated for a few years, were engaged for roughly 2 years, and married back in '05). We've been given 2 more little "gifts," the second we did not expect AT ALL. But such is life.

I'm not going to go line-by-line on the quote. I will simply say that all those things certainly CAN happen. Many of those situations and attitudes are very familiar, actually, because I've been in some of those situations. For example, I once dated another girl for a number of years, from jr. high school into college. Over time, the young lady became excessively contentious. The REAL problem was that I'd sold myself WAY short, thinking I'd never have a better chance of finding the perfect lover. So it was imperative that I hang onto her. It eventually came to my attention that I'd caught the eye of another young lady that I'd secretly been interested in but wrote off in my efforts NOT to cheat on my main squeeze. Well, that was an abysmal failure, as was my relationship with her when I finally discovered I had the cajones to move on from my current destructive relationship and explore the possibilities with the new girl. Not to be outdone, my ex quickly moved in on me as soon as that relationship went Splitsville. Long story short, I had to treat my ex like a stalker and put a lot of distance between us. I resigned myself to the occasional fooling-around with whoever/whatever came my way, and it wasn't long before the one I married and I just got thrown together.

It was rocky for a while because I was still dealing with some hangups. I eventually left the state and had other relationships. Those were actually GOOD, and I ended up with a young college freshman with whom I had a BEAUTIFUL relationship for as long as it lasted--we were both very sad that it had to end, but we knew that there would be better things for both of us. It wasn't long before I returned home that I started really making an effort to rebuild the past relationship, and we just knew that our days of being with other people had come to an end.

The thing I say in just about every thread concerning LTRs is that my wife and I are best friends before we are anything else--lovers, parents, and so on. We work harder on our friendship and we don't do anything to force our exclusive dependence on each other (I'm actually in a hotel right now while on the way home from a church-related trip while she's spent the week taking care of the children by herself). She has not even once nagged me or made me feel guilty about leaving, nor have I been insensitive about making the trip. The trip has had obvious benefits for me, but the surprise has been that she's been able to focus all her attention on the children and build some tighter bonds with them. Otherwise, a typical afternoon would just involve me keeping the children occupied while she cooks dinner, and it's possible that some of the hotter tantrums we've experienced may just be due to the psychological effects of the particular divisions within our household. Those kinds of divisions aren't a BAD thing necessarily, it just means that my wife and I are used to paying each other nearly undivided attention. The plain fact is that my wife and I are completely separate and different people, and because our children have to expect different things from us, it's POSSIBLE that those kinds of inequities have sparked strife within our children.

We never would have figured this out without one parent being absent for an extended period of time.

What is important to remember is that there is no such thing as an EASY relationship unless both partners and other members of the household are in the habit of making it a harmonious environment for the unit as a whole. Even THEN you can still expect that unexpected events will inevitably occur and require adjustment on the part of the individual members of the family.

But in spite any conflicts, time, and effort that go into relationship-building, relationships in which the partners work side-by-side in the home and encourage each other will always be worth it. Patience is the real key to this. As I said earlier, my wife and I pursued other relationships at various times when we were just getting started. Even now we find we still have a lot to learn about each other. It helps that we actually enjoy the task!



HopeGrows
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02 Jul 2010, 12:23 am

AngelRho wrote:
The thing I say in just about every thread concerning LTRs is that my wife and I are best friends before we are anything else--lovers, parents, and so on. We work harder on our friendship and we don't do anything to force our exclusive dependence on each other....

But in spite any conflicts, time, and effort that go into relationship-building, relationships in which the partners work side-by-side in the home and encourage each other will always be worth it. Patience is the real key to this. As I said earlier, my wife and I pursued other relationships at various times when we were just getting started. Even now we find we still have a lot to learn about each other. It helps that we actually enjoy the task!


Hmm....sounds like men are actually interested in commitment, trust and intimacy in relationships.


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foreveryoung
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02 Jul 2010, 12:35 am

When you have great relationships in your life - family and close friends; true unconditional, never-ending love - you don't need a woman to bring meaning to your life and tell you everything you ever wanted to hear, because you're secure enough with yourself to begin with, and have people that truly believe in you, that you don't need someone of the opposite sex to be an unpaid therapist of sorts.



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02 Jul 2010, 12:49 am

Nope they aren't. Friends with benefits don't let you down as much lol


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HopeGrows
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02 Jul 2010, 1:10 am

foreveryoung wrote:
When you have great relationships in your life - family and close friends; true unconditional, never-ending love - you don't need a woman to bring meaning to your life and tell you everything you ever wanted to hear, because you're secure enough with yourself to begin with, and have people that truly believe in you, that you don't need someone of the opposite sex to be an unpaid therapist of sorts.


Women are unpaid therapists who are supposed to bring meaning to your life and tell you everything you ever wanted to hear? Or they're just around for men to "experience" before they're too old and ugly to attract them? You're secure in yourself, but really only because you have other people who truly believe in you - as long as one of those other people isn't a woman with whom you're romantically involved? Sorry, I don't see how those perspectives make sense....or can even coexist within one person's framework. But if that's how you feel about women, I don't think a relationship with a woman (beyond consensual sex) is compatible with your perspective.


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AngelRho
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02 Jul 2010, 2:03 am

HopeGrows wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
The thing I say in just about every thread concerning LTRs is that my wife and I are best friends before we are anything else--lovers, parents, and so on. We work harder on our friendship and we don't do anything to force our exclusive dependence on each other....

But in spite any conflicts, time, and effort that go into relationship-building, relationships in which the partners work side-by-side in the home and encourage each other will always be worth it. Patience is the real key to this. As I said earlier, my wife and I pursued other relationships at various times when we were just getting started. Even now we find we still have a lot to learn about each other. It helps that we actually enjoy the task!


Hmm....sounds like men are actually interested in commitment, trust and intimacy in relationships.


Well, Hope, the sad fact seems to be that only SOME of us are! I haven't been married for 50 years, by any means, but I do feel that I'm a veteran in a way. I'm CERTAINLY a veteran of the dating scene, which has been terribly unkind to me, but I did survive to the point of marriage.

I think perhaps the problem is that we men generally tend to seek an idealized kind of woman. It may be a certain kind of appearance, certain personality traits, posture/body carriage, the promise of sex, and other qualities, but it certainly starts out as some bizarre kind of fantasy in which such a "perfect" woman is found and she becomes a sort of "mommy" figure. We men will just go out there, bag us a good woman, and all our cares will magically vanish forever.

Those of us who DO care about pursuing said idealized woman, especially men like myself, end up chasing our own tails in a sense. We're too awkward to play the field, and even when we do make that catch, we don't know what to do. And when said "tail" gets caught, it's either not what we expected/wanted or the "tail" abandons us in search of something that seems more fun and worthwhile than us. I'm sorry to say this, especially as much as I love (practically all) women, but the inevitable broken heart does tend to evoke some strong misogynist feelings within us. You can't really blame us for that.

Sure, I'm not that old--I was a child in the 80s. But here's what I think the solution ought to be: The American teenage culture ought to rewind itself back to the 1950's. Back then, there were no rules about going out there and meeting "the one." You were allowed to go on dates as a group, and even with single groups there was no guarantee, demand, or expectation that a young man would even GET another date with a particular girl he'd just gone out with. You really had a chance to get to know someone and be friends with them without a lot of expectations. Such a loose association with a greater number of prospective mates only increases the likelihood that you'll even MEET someone you could be happy with in a LTR. You also avoid a lot of heartbreak because you don't develop any kind of attachment until you've been with someone long enough that you consider that person a steady date. There is a LOT of security in those kinds of relationships and I firmly believe that families are better support systems than any kind of self-help pop-psychology TV show.

What we seem to have here are a lot of guys who are badly insecure in relationships, aren't comfortable approaching the opposite sex, yet they want the more meaningful aspects of LTRs such as love, empathy, trust. The truth is that nothing can really distinguish one guy from any other guy. The trouble is that women, like men, are looking for an ideal, just like men are. So just because a guy finds "the one," there's no guarantee that she is going to think that he "Is the one." And thus begins the vicious cycle.

I think a woman will generally be happier with someone who is generally agreeable. But I also think that women also have a soft spot for male power, dominion, and strength in the context of male sexual identity. Those men who do care about LTRs and the responsibilities that go with them MUST realize that there is more to being a man than being "sensitive." I think this is what women ultimately want in a "good person." Failure to WORK for a woman leads to failure to GET said woman, and this invariably means "quit whining about your feelings."



astaut
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02 Jul 2010, 2:48 am

Pistonhead wrote:
Nope they aren't. Friends with benefits don't let you down as much lol


If that's true-that men don't want long term relationships-what about us women who do want them?

...Maybe I should expect to see a large rise in popularity of lesbian relationships? :roll:


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02 Jul 2010, 4:25 am

astaut wrote:
Pistonhead wrote:
Nope they aren't. Friends with benefits don't let you down as much lol


If that's true-that men don't want long term relationships-what about us women who do want them?

...Maybe I should expect to see a large rise in popularity of lesbian relationships? :roll:
Mehh, i doubt he knows what he's talking about.

& i for one, being a man who does want a LTR, am proof-positive that it isn't true for all of us.


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CJame
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02 Jul 2010, 4:50 am

AngelRho wrote:
Over time, the young lady became excessively contentious. The REAL problem was that I'd sold myself WAY short, thinking I'd never have a better chance of finding the perfect lover. So it was imperative that I hang onto her.


AngelRho, I've been in your shoes.

I've come to realize that some men (including myself) cling onto an unhealthy LTR due to the difficulty of finding a new partner. Due to the negativity experienced from a bad LTR, men can become bitter and jaded.

As a man, it is easy to overlook personality conflicts if the girlfriend/wife is beautiful. We men are to be blamed for choosing wrong LTR partners, and going "all-in" with an incompatible partner. It is easy to become lazy and settle for reliable sex, but after my experience, I would rather be alone than go through LTR hell with the wrong person again.

Like AngelRho implied, give yourself worth and expect LTR's as a privilege only to be given to your ideal female. The ideal female will respect and cherish your hard work. If the s**t hits the fan 20 years later, well, the biggest gains always come with risks. In the meantime go have some casual fun and don't settle.

Ideally the following is what a LTR can be like: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me ... 4005.story

"After 72 years of marriage they still adore each other, and their fans adore them"



Last edited by CJame on 02 Jul 2010, 5:19 am, edited 2 times in total.

zen_mistress
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02 Jul 2010, 4:58 am

this thread is too bizarre to even write in.


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02 Jul 2010, 5:18 am

The guy is clearly bitter about his lot, and blind to certain dimensions of relationships. I feel sorry for him, but what can I do about it? My compassion has been aroused. Maybe you could show him this thread.

I will now address the points raised individually.

1. I think he's answered his own point there.

2. He's not trying. The passion might waver, but it can come back strongly, if you do the work.

3. If you feel that a LTR is a waste of time, then you should question why, and make changes and efforts towards creating a rewarding relationship. Either with the one he's with or not, but I can detect a pattern in this guy from this one piece of text, and he should probably address it.

4. If one 'invests' well in family, friends, and other relationships, it is not such a big problem if a relationship goes kaput. If you've behaved respectfully towards your spouse/girlfriend in your time together, she won't automatically withdraw her love, care and support, even if the relationship ends.

5. If you aren't prepared for loss now, when will you be? We lose everything in the end. Why bother investing in life, if we are all destined to die at some stage? It sounds like this man is looking for reasons to stay aloof and uninvested in his relationships, and surprise, that's only going to weaken them.

6. OK

7. Women are biologically programmed to do certain things, as are men. Instead of whining and blaming them for not doing what we want or think they should do, we should find ways of appreciating and respecting that, working and flowing with those programs.

9. The motivation should be love, not a desire for praise. I find that appreciation comes when I give it.

10. If he's invested in a bad relationship, that sucks. But is the relationship bad, or is he just bad at relationships? He should probably find out about what he needs from and what he needs to give in a relationship, and then pursuing that. It sucks that people have to make the same mistakes over and over before they learn. It also sucks that some people never do.

He's gone into relationships in a passive way, expecting a woman to praise him and fulfill him, and then at the end asks us, 'do you want others to be responsible for your life?' What irony.

He's looking outside himself, at his relationships as causing the problems, and never once asks "What am I doing that causes me to feel unhappy?".

It's up to each of us to make sure our lives are happy and fulfilling. We aren't supposed to give that responsibility over to anyone else, and that includes our primary partners.


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foreveryoung
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02 Jul 2010, 5:55 am

Men and women have different minds. Women want one man to satisfy their every need, while men want many women to satisfy their one need.

Say what you want about my beliefs and the beliefs of the guy who wrote the article, but when I'm in my 40s, I won't be stuck in some boring, lifeless marriage with annoying kids and a woman way past her prime.