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raisedbyignorance
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07 Dec 2010, 4:03 pm

I would like some advice. I am in desperate need of job references but of course the vast majority (of former job supervisors at least) wont have much good to say about me.

I really need to go one from the company I worked with as part of my externship but I got a low evaluation score from them due to the difficulty I had keeping up with work and the difficulty I had communicating with my supervisors in general.

How can I go about requesting them to be my job reference without sounding desperate?



MidlifeAspie
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07 Dec 2010, 5:45 pm

A reference generally means that they are recommending your work to another potential employer. If they did not have a positive opinion of you when you left I would not bother asking as you are unlikely to obtain that which you are looking for.



autisticon
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07 Dec 2010, 7:23 pm

By law previous employers actually aren't allowed to say anything bad about you as that would prevent you from finding a new job. I've spoken to a few employers about this and usually what they do is just confirm the date you started and the date you left, and make no comment about you as a person. If you really think an ex-employer would bad mouth you if used, get a friend to call in and pretend to be a perspective employer and you'll know for sure. If they are bad mouthing you, you can sue them for slander.



raisedbyignorance
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07 Dec 2010, 10:46 pm

autisticon wrote:
By law previous employers actually aren't allowed to say anything bad about you as that would prevent you from finding a new job. I've spoken to a few employers about this and usually what they do is just confirm the date you started and the date you left, and make no comment about you as a person. If you really think an ex-employer would bad mouth you if used, get a friend to call in and pretend to be a perspective employer and you'll know for sure. If they are bad mouthing you, you can sue them for slander.


It's weird cuz I've been hearing way too many different things. I mean what if it's a situation where I may need a reference letter or a letter of recommendation? Then they would have to go into detail about some things right? I'm finding this too confusing and it's terrifying me. I have been fired from one job for committing a violation, another job for not calling in my absenses enough. Both were temporary jobs that hired by work availability. Those probably hurt my employment reputation. Though neither job has any relation to the new field I'm pursuing in Medical Billing and Coding. I may have to go to my Medical school and talk to them about it to get their thoughts on the situation.



zer0netgain
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08 Dec 2010, 8:59 am

I wish I had answers for this.

My experience and knowledge says the following.

1. Most all employers will do nothing more than confirm that you worked for them, dates of employment, job title and maybe pay level. These are facts they don't need to worry about getting into trouble with. So, an employer getting nothing "positive" from an employer means nothing since so many are being non-informative to avoid risk of litigation.

2. An employer who can well-document anything negative about your work can say it and know that a suit for slander won't prevail, so if they really thought you were that bad and can prove it, they might say it to a prospective employer. Often, they won't bother.

3. However, if an employer thought you were great, they might go ahead and say so....especially if your supervisor/boss is free to talk to whomever he/she wants to. Likewise, sometimes they will give you a letter of recommendation...which is helpful should they move on and you don't know how to contact them at their new place of work. If a prospective employer gets a positive reference from a past employer, it says a lot because most employers won't say anything at all.

You can always ask if a past employer would be a positive reference that prospective employers could contact. They will say yes or they will say no. I'd emphasize that you want a positive reference and respect that if they say "no," you don't need to know their reasons for not cooperating. It might be personal, it might not be. Just accept the answer and move on. I say this because I got someone to agree to be "a reference" and he used it to figuratively plunge a knife into my back. I could have made an issue over the fact that the "positive" aspect was implied (who asks for a negative reference), but I just learned my lesson and moved on.



MidlifeAspie
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08 Dec 2010, 10:20 am

autisticon wrote:
By law previous employers actually aren't allowed to say anything bad about you as that would prevent you from finding a new job. I've spoken to a few employers about this and usually what they do is just confirm the date you started and the date you left, and make no comment about you as a person. If you really think an ex-employer would bad mouth you if used, get a friend to call in and pretend to be a perspective employer and you'll know for sure. If they are bad mouthing you, you can sue them for slander.


I can tell you from experience that the way we (employers) get around this is to ask the reference if the employee is eligible to be rehired. This is a perfectly legal question and is usually asked when checking references. Any answer other than "yes" is indicative of a problem with the employee and a "negative" reference.



Traveler
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23 Dec 2010, 11:26 am

autisticon wrote:
By law previous employers actually aren't allowed to say anything bad about you as that would prevent you from finding a new job. I've spoken to a few employers about this and usually what they do is just confirm the date you started and the date you left, and make no comment about you as a person. If you really think an ex-employer would bad mouth you if used, get a friend to call in and pretend to be a perspective employer and you'll know for sure. If they are bad mouthing you, you can sue them for slander.


This is unfortunately untrue, employers can and do say negative things every day, and whether you can take legal action depends on the nature of their comments. Allison & Taylor Reference Checking has an article called the 7 Deadly Myths of Job References...in their pressroom. It's something you should check out. Don't make the mistake of thinking you are "safe" from negative input, and don't use a friend to check references. They are not professionals and it could backfire in a big way if a former employer catches on.



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23 Dec 2010, 11:58 am

Traveler wrote:
This is unfortunately untrue, employers can and do say negative things every day, and whether you can take legal action depends on the nature of their comments.


Yes, this is a myth perpetuated by employees of all stripes, and as an employer and a specialist in corporate legal compliance I can assure you that very little is "illegal". In order to be illegal the comment would first have to be slanderous, which means it has to be intentionally false. An employer can share anything they like so long as they can either back it up with fact (attendance problems, write-ups, etc are all documented). In order for legal action to be taken against an employer who engaged in slander you would have to have actual damages to sue for. If the comments kept you from finding any job in your area at your previous salary level after putting in as much effort as would be generally required to do so, you would have a long shot at attaining damages through legal action. This is the case most often with college-educated careers that are thrown under the bus by a spiteful ex-employer.

If instead you had a position in manual labor, food service or retail (examples) and did a poor job and was fired, or left with a poor performance evaluation, and you use this job as a reference and the reference said you did a poor job - sorry, you have no case. If instead you did a fantastic job as an intern or waiter or gas station attendant (again examples of low paying, low skill positions) and your ex-employer said negative things just because he didn't like you, you would still have very little recourse as you would have a very hard time convincing a jury that every job in your area has been removed as a possibility for you because of the poor reference, and your damages would only be equivalent to the money you could have earned at the low-paying or minimum wage position you were unable to obtain.



grendel
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26 Dec 2010, 4:04 am

I agree that you shouldn't ask someone who didn't view you well to be a reference. You may have to report previous employers anyway as some applications ask this, and they may call them to confirm... some employers will recommend or not recommend and some as mentioned will just confirm you worked there. As mentioned you can have someone call to inquire about you if you are concerned about this. If you're just listing them as your previous employer you don't have to discuss it with them at all or ask for anything.

In terms of writing a letter of reference.... I have never seen this required in job fields I've looked in. It may not be as common as you think or perhaps it's only the specific field you are in? At any rate I don't think a lot of jobs require you to provide this. You can always look at other job options if you haven't got anything like that.

As for your "personal references" section that don't necessarily have to be your previous supervisor, perhaps consider listing a coworker or someone you worked with who wasn't your supervisor. Not to misrepresent them, just to recommend you as a colleague. This would allow you to get positive job input if they call them. You would of course want to clear this with the person in question. You could also teachers you worked with at school as a personal reference, if they have a positive view of you and you are a recent graduate.

If they ask you about having been fired or why you left your previous job (which is more likely than getting a really negative report from your previous employer), I think you should be honest about it but try to put a positive spin on it if possible... don't make them think that the issue will crop up again in your new job. And don't say it was a personality conflict either, that will make them think you are hard to work with.