Conspiracy Theories
Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
I said I didn't support everything Israel has done - and that would include destroying schools, and the homes of terrorists. Not to mention looking the other way when right wing Israelis force Palestinians out of their homes, often by the villagefull, as well as the whole insane settlement scheme.
But the fact remains, Israel is the least oppressive Middle Eastern country, where citizens can and do speak out against their government, and religion is practiced freely. That's a far cry from the surrounding countries that jail or kill dissidents, and where Christians, Jews, and even Muslims of differing theology live in oppression and poverty.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
Exactly, Israel's s**t stinks the least out of all of em. To call them evil sounds like a typical anti-war knee jerk response and is as stupid as calling Bush a Fascist or Obama a Commie. It's like those people who say "Bush lied, people died!". Hamas are the real evil chickenshit scumbags.
Have you heard about the latest North Korean outrage. They sprang a currency reform at the end of 2009 which, in effect, confiscates what little savings the people of North Korea have. The effect has been to increase the price of food in a country where malnutrition (by government fiat) is the norm.
See:
http://www.iie.com/publications/opeds/o ... rchID=1487
and
http://www.english.rfi.fr/asia-pacific/ ... rm-reports
The government of North Korea steals crusts of bread from the mouths of widows and children.
But some of you guys think what Israel does is the Most Evil Thing in the World.
ruveyn
sartresue
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Critical mess topic
It is far easier to call Israel evil than it is North Korea which does not have an open press, and few if any poltical dissidents able to report problems.
I have noticed in this thread that some of the posters twist what others write and I find this a tad deceitful. I suppose this is what conspiracy theorists do.
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Awe-Tistic Whirlwind
Phuture Phounder of the Philosophy Phactory
NOT a believer of Mystic Woo-Woo
That and extrapolate connections to be much more involved and notorious than they actually are.
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Critical mess topic
It is far easier to call Israel evil than it is North Korea which does not have an open press, and few if any poltical dissidents able to report problems.
I have noticed in this thread that some of the posters twist what others write and I find this a tad deceitful. I suppose this is what conspiracy theorists do.
@ skafather: Extrapolating too far ahead has a lot to do with it, but I also find their fundamental concept of human nature is wacked. That people are such mindless gullible drones that you could actually coordinate huge groups of people to pull off 9/11 without getting away with it.
While I do think people tend to have a herd mentality, people aren't as sheepish and gullible to the extreme extent conspiracy theorists hold as latent assumptions. A herd mentality is a double edged sword, it can tell you something's wrong when everyone else starts running the other direction, or it can tell you what a loner you are when everyone else is jumping off a cliff. And plus, they have this belief that a few people are the ones who start with power and control the masses, while ignoring the fact that it's the masses who give them the power
Power over people comes from them, not you. They give you power because they believe it is within their best interests and that it will benefit em, not because they're so mindless and gullible that they'll just get clingy out of insecurity.
I'm a believer in the fact that tyranny starts with the masses, which is a big reason why a lot of conspiracy theories instantly set off my BS detector. Hitler would've never became powerful if antisemitism wasn't already prevalent.
Calling Obama a fascist or a communist is wrong because his actions are neither. He is being a useless president, he is not doing anything to stop the wars, he may start one soon but he is not within the definition of fascist or communist.
Calling Israel evil is accurate. the existence of far worse off countries like NK, do not make Israel's issues go away. The claim that it "is the least oppressive middle easter country" is actually a major claim that I will request some proof for. But again, just because worse countries exist, it does not mean Israel's actions are fine, they are really not fine, and I think that Israel has deserved the evil tag since a long time ago.
And I am sorry, but when a state goes imprisoning dissenters, I consider it to have crossed the line between democracy and non-democracy. Then we have intentionally bombing civilians, blocking aid and the red cross' access to a rival country ... I cannot believe you guys are managing to excuse such behavior by just saying "NK is far worse" or "The other mid east countries are worse". Israel is not Ok.
So, really, Israel are not as evil as NK, and I hope they have a long way to go to that level, but accepting their behavior just because NK are more evil is not something I can agree with.
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Calling Israel evil is accurate. the existence of far worse off countries like NK, do not make Israel's issues go away. The claim that it "is the least oppressive middle easter country" is actually a major claim that I will request some proof for. But again, just because worse countries exist, it does not mean Israel's actions are fine, they are really not fine, and I think that Israel has deserved the evil tag since a long time ago.
And I am sorry, but when a state goes imprisoning dissenters, I consider it to have crossed the line between democracy and non-democracy. Then we have intentionally bombing civilians, blocking aid and the red cross' access to a rival country ... I cannot believe you guys are managing to excuse such behavior by just saying "NK is far worse" or "The other mid east countries are worse". Israel is not Ok.
So, really, Israel are not as evil as NK, and I hope they have a long way to go to that level, but accepting their behavior just because NK are more evil is not something I can agree with.
Where's the proof that they intentionally target civilians? Hamas has been known to hide among the civilian population and have been known to stash weapons in all kinds of buildings, as well as using civilians as shields. Those scumbags have been lobbing bombs into their neighbourhoods, so I don't expect Israel to stand by idly and watch it happen.
btw I apologize for labeling you a drama queen since it's wrong for me to assume that bringing NK up means you think Israel's only a notch down from their level of evil, but I still think the way you see it is completely blown outta proportion.
Trust me, you're better off being in the West than in some Arab country. I know from experience.
There is no evidence for controlled demolition being used. So I go with what I (meaning I) see is true.
Personally, I have no interest in which side was behind the plane attacks.
First of all, I take what witnesses say seriously. Do you have any witness who saw a missile hit the Pentagon instead of a plane? And also, in my personal observations, it's always the 911 conspiracy theorists that resort to quoting what people say out of context and misinterpreting things according to their fantasies (like the 45 degree cutouts).
Did you read what I said in the previous post? Don't ask such deceptive questions. Know my position first!
I will only speak for myself.
Intellectual honesty. Nothing more.
In what way are they fantastic? What kind of world do you think you live in?
Browse the thread. I can't be stuffed posting them again. And, anyway, you can just watch them on YouTube if you're so interested.
No, thanks. I've had enough of wild conspiracy theory videos. Used to watch a lot of them in the past (before developing critical thinking and realizing they were full of nonsense).
Since I'm feeling generous at this very moment, I'll post just one video here. It should be more than enough for you.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKov_UZDQE&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
No one denies all that. No one denies that large numbers of Jews suffered in camps and that many of them died. There are just some people who don't see any evidence for the existence of homicidal gas chambers or a plan to murder the Jews. What's peculiar, is that these people are called deniers and actually punished by law in about a dozen Western countries for what in any other era of history would have been regarded as legitimate questions.
I bet you think there's some bigass conspiracy going on against poor deniers like you.
I perosnally don't have a problem with honest questioners of the Holocaust (honest skepticism is always encouraged). I have a problem with those who deny it (despite any evidence) because they have a personal agenda of some sort.
Because I have eyes to see and ears to hear. I only need experts to clarify certain aspects of the evidence I see. I don't need experts to tell me things that I can know for myself on my own.
I've already posted enough videos (addressing the points you made in the comment above) that show that you need to start being honest with yourself and with us. You are not fooling anyone but your fellow conspiracy theorists and yourself.
I don't give a s**t for what you think. You said it yourself. You haven't been able to verify those claims for yourself. So why already accept them as true. Do you enjoy believing things blindly?
Anyway, if you actually care for the truth, then just check any of the videos on YouTube that address this. The claims have been shown to be exaggerated and resulting from taking what Larry Silverstein said out of context. Typical of conspiracy theorists as they don't mind lying to people to get their points across.
I agree. Tyranny based on ideology is almost always a bottom up phenomenon. There was little dissent or resistance to the Nazi party. It wasn't until Hitler began his invasions that some of the population began to wonder if he was nuts, but by then it was too late.
Kraichgauer
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Location: Spokane area, Washington state.
I agree. Tyranny based on ideology is almost always a bottom up phenomenon. There was little dissent or resistance to the Nazi party. It wasn't until Hitler began his invasions that some of the population began to wonder if he was nuts, but by then it was too late.
Actually, there were elements in Germany who had resisted Hitler from the very beginning - Social Democrats, socialists, communists, artists, actors etc. - but a great many of them ended up in concentration camps even before the Jews - or simply were killed, or disappeared. Others simply went abroad to America, Britain, or France, such as the actor Conrad Veidt ( ironically, who despite his anti-Nazi sentiments ended up playing Nazis) or the artist George Grosz, whose warnings to the American public, prior to Pearl Harbor, were seen as the rantings of a leftist alarmist.
-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer
First of all, no one was being turned into lampshades or soap. Those are both claims that have been dismissed a long time ago by mainstream historians.
With regards to the behavior of the SS in the camps, most reports I've read on abuse within the concentration camps deal with the capos who seem to have had quite a lot of independence in their actions. I'm not suggesting that the SS never harmed the inmates at all, however to me they seem far less common than claims about abuse by the capos. Claims about the SS doctors do not seem to be very reliable.
I'm keeping all that evidence in account.
Actually it's the other way around. Those who don't see any evidence of gas chambers and genocide are the ones who actually studied the available evidence.
That's true. Israel is worse, though only slightly.
How about the government of North Korea which is starving its people to maintain its military. They are a major evil. They won't let anyone out.
ruveyn
Which is worse? An evil masquerading as good, or an evil that wears a big hat with EVIL written on it, carrying a banner with EVIL on it?
I would say evil masquerading as good because at least the latter isn't fooling anyone...
I'm not convinced that North-Korea is as evil as we're supposed to believe, though. Nearly all info we get about North-Korea comes comes from sources I've learnt to distrust. In fact, what DO we actually know about North-Korea?!
THe only people who are silenced by Big Brother are those who manage to influence a large amount of people. Usually they first try to ruin a person's credibility by defamation (eg. calling him a "racist", a "terrorist", a "fundamentalist", ...). If that doesn't work, they next step is ruining a person financially by having him fired, forcing advertisers to take a step back, etc. If that doesn't work either, they try false accusations, often involving paedophilia or rape (eg. the Julian Assange case). Only very rarely do people get imprisoned or killed for expressing their views for obvious reasons : more people would take them seriously. The only exception are those who question the murder of 6 million Jews during WW2. Apparently that heritage is considered so sacriligious it's pretty easy to be thrown in jail when you manage to reach enough people.
Israel and Saudi-Arabia (two close allies of the US) are actually the most oppressive Middle Eastern countries, whereas eg. Iran, Turkey or Lebanon are far less oppressive. Also, Hamas is actually doing a lot of great things to help the Palestinian people and one of the few to do so.
You should really stop taking the lies of the Zionist mainstream media for granted
What country did you live in and what was it better than the West in your opinion?
There is no evidence for controlled demolition being used. So I go with what I (meaning I) see is true.
Actually, all the evidence seems to point towards controlled demolition. Not only that, it's physically impossible for the WTC towers to have collapsed the way they did without the used of explosives.
So you wouldn't want to know if the US government planned it or not?
First of all, I take what witnesses say seriously. Do you have any witness who saw a missile hit the Pentagon instead of a plane?
I've seen footage of the most diverse witness reports varying from a missile to all kinds of airplanes. There is little consistency in the witness reports, actually.
Still, I personally don't know or care what hit the Pentagon. It is peculiar, however, at what angle the Pentagon was hit considering the supposed airplane supposebly came from another direction yet managed to hit a side of the Pentagon that was under construction. How nice of the "terrorists" to do so
Quote-mining is not typical for one side. It's a common human flaw that can be find on both sides to a smilar degree.
I will only speak for myself.
Intellectual honesty. Nothing more.
It is intellectual honesty, evidence and rational thinking that led me to reject the official version of 9/11.
In what way are they fantastic? What kind of world do you think you live in?
When you look at both claims in detail, they burst like a bubble. They're as credible as your average Christian myth, really.
There's a lot of disinformation out there. Alex Jones, David Icke and Texe Marrs are a few well-known examples. Some are probably in it for the money and others are probably on the CIA payroll. Other sources are reliable, though. You just need to wade through piles of s**t before you stumble on some fine gems and what I did what precisely that : hand-pick a few gems beneath a pile of s**t.
Since I'm feeling generous at this very moment, I'll post just one video here. It should be more than enough for you.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elKov_UZDQE&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
I'll check it out ASAP. I'm currently on a smallband connection because I exceeded my limits and I won't have broadband for another two or three days.
No one denies all that. No one denies that large numbers of Jews suffered in camps and that many of them died. There are just some people who don't see any evidence for the existence of homicidal gas chambers or a plan to murder the Jews. What's peculiar, is that these people are called deniers and actually punished by law in about a dozen Western countries for what in any other era of history would have been regarded as legitimate questions.
I bet you think there's some bigass conspiracy going on against poor deniers like you.
Why do you insist on calling sceptics deniers?! Also, don't you think it's peculiar that people are thrown in jail for questioning historical accuracy on one particular part of history while this is pretty much common practice in ANY other part of history (although some governments are currently trying to make any questioning with regards to any officially recognised genocide illegal).
How do you distinguish the first from the latter? What is in your opinion valid scepticism and what is in your opinion denial? What is in your opinion reasonable to question and what isn't? What evidence do you consider valid and what evidence do you not? Have you ever read any article or book from the people you accuse of "denial" or do you know all you know about them from their opposition? If you know all you know about them from their opposition, how can you possibly make up your mind objectively on whether or not they have any solid arguments?
Just for the record, I've read quite a lot of material from BOTH sides and whereas imo the revisionist side (whom you call deniers) have a pretty strong case, the official position is as full of holes as swiss cheese.
Because I have eyes to see and ears to hear. I only need experts to clarify certain aspects of the evidence I see. I don't need experts to tell me things that I can know for myself on my own.
So you know for a fact that it's physically possible for the airplanes alone to have caused the collapse of the WTC towers, without having any knowledge of structuring engineering? Well, I'm not a structural engineer either but imo this is physically impossible by any standards. Don't you think we need experts to sort out who's right? Isn't it arrogant to assume you're right without even looking into the arguments against your position?
I've already posted enough videos (addressing the points you made in the comment above) that show that you need to start being honest with yourself and with us. You are not fooling anyone but your fellow conspiracy theorists and yourself.
I am honest with myself. You are the one ignoring the evidence.
I don't give a sh** for what you think. You said it yourself. You haven't been able to verify those claims for yourself. So why already accept them as true. Do you enjoy believing things blindly?
I don't accept them as either true or false as long as I haven't been able to verify them, however they do provide an answer to some of the questions those defending the official theory often have.
So then what is the truth? Where are the so-called conspiract theorists wrong? Do you deny that the WTC towers were running at a loss and if so on what data do you base that denial? Do you deny that Silverstein made quite a profit from the insurance policy he had on the WTC towers? If not, on what data do you base that denial?
There are and will always be dissidents in every political system. These dissidents have always and will always be persecuted. It happened in Third Reich, it happened in the Sovietunion and it's happening in out so-called "democratic" societies today as well. The only difference is both in the Third Reich and in the Sovietunion authorities were pretty clear about there not being any free speech because they believed it to be harmful to the system, whereas in our "democratic" societies we're given the illusion of freedom of speech and political freedom while at the same time people can get expelled from college, lose their jobs, be forced to pay fines and/or get sent to jail for expressing opinions that don't fall within the narrow range of accepted opinions. Also, the indoctrination of our youth today is done in a far more subtle way under the pretext of "education" or "entertainment", yet their content is so extreme by nature many kids have lost the ability to think for themselves altogether once they leave college, thus becoming the perfect drones for Big Brother.
I lived in Lebanon for several years. To the Lebanese government there, the people are nothing but unwanted garbage. I can't say the same about the American government or the British government or the Australian government.
That's not what peer-reviewed scientific papers say.
And I have yet to see conclusive evidence for controlled demolition causing the buildings to collapse. Where is that evidence?
Hope you understand what I mean by conclusive evidence. No, I don't mean speculations by some Mormon "scientist" or quotes taken out of context.
If it did, where's the evidence?
I've yet to see one witness report seeing a missile. Is it that guy who's well known for having his words taken out of context by conspiracy theorists? If so, I wouldn't trust that footage.
Ok, I'm unfamiliar with this bit here. Where did you get such information from?
I have no problem agreeing with this bit. I just haven't seen any quote-mining being done by the other side. In fact, I don't see why they need to. Anyone who's telling the truth doesn't need to resort to such deceptive tactics.
Are you sure it's not you having a problem with the Jews that you reject the "official" version of 9/11? I mean, let's face it. Judging from your posts, you seem to have a problem with them. Did they do anything bad or naughty to you when you were a child?
Oh, really?
You seem to know more than all the scientists out there who disagree with you. Doesn't that sound so fantastic?
CIA payroll? So now there's a conspiracy going on between several conspiracy theorists? LOL!
And you're complaining about fantastic ...
That's what happens when you watch too many conspiracy theory videos.
First of all, if you want me to call you a skeptic instead of a denier, then start acting like one ... and get rid of this agenda that you seem to have against the Jews. It's making you sound very biased.
Oh, and why aren't you in jail yourself? Is it because you live in a country that treats disrespectful deniers like you in a civilized manner? Which country do you live in? Don't tell me it's the USA, the country allegedly controlled by the Jews!
The historical evidence is there ... just as there is evidence ofr the theory of evolution. If you deny all the documents and witnesses as evidence, then obviously you're a denier. A skeptic would look at all these evidence and accept them as evidence because they are conclusive and because there is no evidence that shows otherwise. All you have is denial on the other side.
You're like the typical creationist who thinks the theory of evolution is ridiculous and full of holes while his belief makes more sense, lol.
I really do want to take you conspiracy theorists seriously. But damn!
I already have. The peer-reviewed scientific papers say that it's physically possible. Any "expert" who says otherwise is a liar.
I didn't even know about the claims that it was physically impossible until I watched some conspiracy theory videos.
Keep yourself in denial. I'm tempted to mock you soon.
Just out of curiosity, what are the claims that you have yet to verify for yourself?
The planes alone were enough to cause the damage.
They're wrong by dismissing the evidence and listening to liars like Steven Jones (who happens to be a Mormon).
Were they running at a loss? I have no clue. I just don't care, really.
If he did, then good for him. Do you have a problem with him making profit?
I make quite a profit from customers sending me their computers infected with viruses and malware. It doesn't mean that I put the viruses in those systems myself.
So you see what I mean by conclusive evidence?
Looking forward to your next deceptive post.
I lived in Lebanon for several years. To the Lebanese government there, the people are nothing but unwanted garbage. I can't say the same about the American government or the British government or the Australian government.
I don't know about the Lebanese government, but the British government and the Australian government PRETEND to care about their populations. I don't know how pretending to care is actually better than showing you don't care.
That's not what peer-reviewed scientific papers say.
Which ones? Can you name some papers that were NOT published by a federal agency like the NIST?
Check out the Journal of 9/11 Studies and let me know if you can find any papers that aactually ddresses their arguments and succesfully manages to debunk them..
If it did, where's the evidence?
To my knowledge there's no direct evidence but a lot of circumstancial evidence that can only lead to the conclusion that either the CIA, Mossad or both were involved.
Anyway, let me reverse the argument here. Where's the evidence that muslem fundamentalists had anything to do with it?
I've yet to see one witness report seeing a missile. Is it that guy who's well known for having his words taken out of context by conspiracy theorists? If so, I wouldn't trust that footage.
It's been a while. I should take a look at the footage again before I can comment on that.
Ok, I'm unfamiliar with this bit here. Where did you get such information from?
You're unfamiliar with this? This is pretty old news actually.
Anyway, here's what Wikipedia tells us :
You'll find some more info on the renovation program, the flight path and other issues with the Pentagon attack at the [/quote]Scholars for 9/11 Truth & Justice website. Also very interesting is this infamous video which is probably the first source most people think of when they think of the anomalies regarding the Pentagon strike.
I have no problem agreeing with this bit. I just haven't seen any quote-mining being done by the other side. In fact, I don't see why they need to. Anyone who's telling the truth doesn't need to resort to such deceptive tactics.
True. That's precisely why the sceptics of the official side don't need to
Are you sure it's not you having a problem with the Jews that you reject the "official" version of 9/11? I mean, let's face it. Judging from your posts, you seem to have a problem with them. Did they do anything bad or naughty to you when you were a child?
First of all, I have been sceptical about the whole issue from the very start and back then I barely even contemplated about Jewish culture. Second, I have a problem with Jewish culture because of its corrosive influence on other cultures that has been well documented throughout history. I do not have any problem with Jews who do not engage in such behavior and condemn it, like eg. professor Norman Finkelstein or professor Israel Shahak.
Oh, really?
You seem to know more than all the scientists out there who disagree with you. Doesn't that sound so fantastic?
I'm a former member of Mensa, used to be a maths whiz in high school, I'm currently a programmer by profession and in my spare time I've been doing research on psychology, history, political science and various other human sciences for more than 10 years now. Is it really that hard to believe that I just might know more about some of these issues than scientists who might be biased by any agenda?
CIA payroll? So now there's a conspiracy going on between several conspiracy theorists? LOL!
And you're complaining about fantastic ...
Ever heard of COINTELPRO (an acronym for Counter Intelligence Program)? Ever heard of Operation Northwoods? If not, look it up. US intelligence agencies have a long history of aimed at surveilling, infiltrating, discrediting, and disrupting organizations and individuals, whether domestic or abroad, by any means possible.
That's what happens when you watch too many conspiracy theory videos.
Actually, I probably spent most of that bandwidth enjoying myself watching creationists make a fool of themselves at YouTube and downloading ebooks on programming.
First of all, if you want me to call you a skeptic instead of a denier, then start acting like one ... and get rid of this agenda that you seem to have against the Jews. It's making you sound very biased.
So a genuine sceptic cannot criticise Jews without losing credibility? Is that what you're saying? Also, how does my opinion on Jewish culture make it any more or any less acceptable that people are thrown in jail for questioning historical accuracy on one particular part of history while this is pretty much common practice in ANY other part of history?
First of all, the US doesn't officially lock up people for their views. The first ammendment protects people from that although there are other ways to silence a person. However, there are many other countries where people can and have been charged, persecuted and locked up for no other reason but questioning a particular aspect of history. I live in one of those countries, but I'm simply not influential enough for my government to care. One of my countrymen did actually manage to reach quite a few people worldwide with his website and the books he sells and he has been sent to jail several times because of that. Of course there are many others with viewpoints just like him, but few have the balls to face a prison sentence just to stand up for what they know to be true.
The historical evidence is there ... just as there is evidence ofr the theory of evolution. If you deny all the documents and witnesses as evidence, then obviously you're a denier. A skeptic would look at all these evidence and accept them as evidence because they are conclusive and because there is no evidence that shows otherwise. All you have is denial on the other side.
Holocaust revisionists (or as you call them : deniers) do look into all the documents and witnesses. They don't deny any of the evidence at all. That's why the label "denier" itself is already a distortion of what they're actually doing. What they ACTUALLY do, is look at all the evidence from a sceptic perspective and their conclusions differ from the official story. Considering the controversial and off-topic nature of the issue I do not wish to go into any greater detail in this thread. If you want more details, let me know and I can send them via PM.
You're like the typical creationist who thinks the theory of evolution is ridiculous and full of holes while his belief makes more sense, lol.
I don't believe in anything. I check for evidence, I analyse it and draw my conclusions. That's how rational people are supposed to act and that's a method I consistently apply.
I already have. The peer-reviewed scientific papers say that it's physically possible. Any "expert" who says otherwise is a liar.
So it's impossible for two different experts to agree, right? It's impossible for those experts publishing in peer-reviewed scientific papers to have an agenda, right? By the way, what peer-reviewed scientific papers are you referring to and can I find the articles as well as their reviews online?
Actually, when I saw the towers crumble my instant reaction was that something just didn't fit and the more I thought about it the more I realised it was just physically impossible for the towers to have collapsed the way they did without the use of explosives. It was only after I came to that conclusion that I started doing research and came to realise I was far from the only one who had come to that conclusion... some of whom have a degree in engineering and this more scientific data to back then up.
Just out of curiosity, what are the claims that you have yet to verify for yourself?
For example, I simply don't know how to verify whether or not the WTC towers were in fact operating at a loss or what exactly Silverstein's insurance payment was.
The planes alone were enough to cause the damage.
Just keep telling that to yourself
So because someone believes in a silly religion, he can't know anything about engineering? What about all the other experts? What evidence are so-called "conspiracy theorists" dismissing? IMO, it's precisely your side that's dismissing most of the evidence.
Were they running at a loss? I have no clue. I just don't care, really.
It matters, because if they were there's a financial motive as well.
If he did, then good for him. Do you have a problem with him making profit?
I make quite a profit from customers sending me their computers infected with viruses and malware. It doesn't mean that I put the viruses in those systems myself.
So you see what I mean by conclusive evidence?
No, it doesn't. But it does provide motive.
Look who's talking