If only this would actually happen in America...

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AceOfSpades
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11 Apr 2011, 8:28 pm

AstroGeek wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Aren't libertarians and conservatives cousins anyway?
Liberals are about social freedom
Conservatives are about economic freedom
Libertarians are about both

The best of both words baby

Yes. Libertarians are all about economic freedom. They want to make sure everyone is free to starve on the street.


As opposed to the government taking 40% of your wage against your will to blow up Iraqi's for s**ts and giggles?

I am strongly opposed to militarism and violence of any type. But to be honest, I view taxation as necessary. Especially for the rich--no one needs to be making millions of dollars per year. That money would be better spent on health care, education, and social programs. Of course, if the USA cut military funding they could probably lower taxes and increase social services at the same time.
Libertarians aren't anarchists. I'd much rather reform education and social welfare than throw more money at it. Whoever is able bodied and mentally functional should be put on workfare instead of welfare Education is fundamentally a complete joke and the whole system needs to be reformed. So what if no one "needs" to be making millions? Why are they less deserving of the fruits of their own labour than anyone else? One thing I differ from most libertarians on is that I am militarist to an extent. If another country has a tyrannical government, wipe it out. If it's a pissing contest between two nations, let em sort it out themselves.



Raymond_Fawkes
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11 Apr 2011, 9:54 pm

I really hate uniformed labels to describe political beliefs .. since it's always different with each individual, though most libertarians message of smaller government and more accountability seems to resonate with the ordinary American. Until the average person really smartens up and stops watching Fox news or CNN .. you won't see any change in Washington ... and the only way change can happen, is if a 3rd party candidate is elected that's not funded by corporate lobbyists and the rich oligarch elite in power.



techstepgenr8tion
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11 Apr 2011, 10:05 pm

Will Dwayne Johnson and 'fluid karma' be involved?


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Daryl_Blonder
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16 Apr 2011, 10:50 pm

Under capitalism, some people lose. Under socialism, everybody loses.

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psychohist
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16 Apr 2011, 11:25 pm

Master_Pedant wrote:
'm refering to the way the term was coined in the 1850s.


Let's check out the etymology. From the Online Etymology Dictionary:

Quote:
libertarian - 1789, "one who holds the doctrine of free will" (opposed to necessitarian), from liberty (q.v.) on model of unitarian, etc. Political sense of "person advocating liberty in thought and conduct" is from 1878. U.S. Libertarian Party founded in Colorado, 1971.


http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=libertarian

It has nothing to do with socialism, which was barely even a concept in 1850.



PM
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16 Apr 2011, 11:30 pm

I would really like to see the Conservatives and Liberals thrown out the door and replaced with Libertarians (MODERN DEFINITION) and Centrists.


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ruveyn
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17 Apr 2011, 8:45 am

Daryl_Blonder wrote:
"When the conservative and liberal armies destroy each other utterly, out of the ashes shall rise the libertarians."

From a Facebook post.

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Vexcalibur
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17 Apr 2011, 9:26 am

What's the problem with speaking Chinese?


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ruveyn
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17 Apr 2011, 11:38 am

Daryl_Blonder wrote:
Under capitalism, some people lose. Under socialism, everybody loses.

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Under Capitalism man is cruelly exploited by man. Under Socialism it is just the opposite.

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17 Apr 2011, 11:47 am

This Libertarian wishes the war of the parties would stop already. We all want basically the same thing... a successful government and country. We just have different ideas on how to achieve it.

Besides, I have a lot of both Republican and Democrat friends and family. It would be sad to see them disappear.


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techstepgenr8tion
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17 Apr 2011, 11:51 am

Vexcalibur wrote:
What's the problem with speaking Chinese?

There are many words in Mandarin that are very difficult if not impossible to pronounce after age 10.


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techstepgenr8tion
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17 Apr 2011, 11:54 am

TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
This Libertarian wishes the war of the parties would stop already. We all want basically the same thing... a successful government and country. We just have different ideas on how to achieve it.

Not exactly. One side wants that, one side believes that the world's 'pie' is finite and that whoever's leading the world is fundamentally evil for taking their success at the expense of everyone else and that they need to be made less successful so that everyone else can have what's fair and owed to them. I won't say that everyone who's a democrat falls in the later group or even most, just that these religious zealots are running amok in a big way right now.


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17 Apr 2011, 11:56 am

techstepgenr8tion wrote:
TeaEarlGreyHot wrote:
This Libertarian wishes the war of the parties would stop already. We all want basically the same thing... a successful government and country. We just have different ideas on how to achieve it.

Not exactly. One side wants that, one side believes that the world's 'pie' is finite and that whoever's leading the world is fundamentally evil for taking their success at the expense of everyone else and that they need to be made less successful so that everyone else can have what's fair and owed to them.


The devil is in the details.


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AstroGeek
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17 Apr 2011, 2:17 pm

AceOfSpades wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
ryan93 wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
AceOfSpades wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Aren't libertarians and conservatives cousins anyway?
Liberals are about social freedom
Conservatives are about economic freedom
Libertarians are about both

The best of both words baby

Yes. Libertarians are all about economic freedom. They want to make sure everyone is free to starve on the street.


As opposed to the government taking 40% of your wage against your will to blow up Iraqi's for s**ts and giggles?

I am strongly opposed to militarism and violence of any type. But to be honest, I view taxation as necessary. Especially for the rich--no one needs to be making millions of dollars per year. That money would be better spent on health care, education, and social programs. Of course, if the USA cut military funding they could probably lower taxes and increase social services at the same time.
Libertarians aren't anarchists. I'd much rather reform education and social welfare than throw more money at it. Whoever is able bodied and mentally functional should be put on workfare instead of welfare Education is fundamentally a complete joke and the whole system needs to be reformed. So what if no one "needs" to be making millions? Why are they less deserving of the fruits of their own labour than anyone else? One thing I differ from most libertarians on is that I am militarist to an extent. If another country has a tyrannical government, wipe it out. If it's a pissing contest between two nations, let em sort it out themselves.

I don't disagree that workfare seems better than welfare--I am a rather strange liberal in that way. I also agree that some reform is needed. However, I think that more money should be spent in addition to reform.

I am strongly opposed to overthrowing someone else's government--even if you don't like them. First, it could be that the people like that government. Even if they are misguided, it is that sort of interference which helps spawn terrorists. From a purely practical standpoint, overthrowing other governments doesn't work very well. And it creates a dangerous precedent. Case in point: a few decades back Chile elected a democratic Marxist government. The CIA helped to overthrow it (if is sometimes even claimed that a CIA agent was the one to kill the president) because, although being democratic this seemed a bit too much like communism. What right does the USA have to get rid of a government that had the popular support of the people of another country?

Someone else said that a large military is needed or everyone would be speaking Chinese and be living under Sharia Law. Uh...no. Canada spend very little on its military, as do most countries compared to the USA, and we get along just fine.



zer0netgain
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18 Apr 2011, 7:40 am

AstroGeek wrote:
Someone else said that a large military is needed or everyone would be speaking Chinese and be living under Sharia Law. Uh...no. Canada spend very little on its military, as do most countries compared to the USA, and we get along just fine.


Um, you're forgetting that it's the bulk of the US military that ensures your nation DOES NOT need to spend so much to enjoy the peace and freedom it now has. If China was the dominant global military power, do you think your nation's spending on defense would remain the same?



AstroGeek
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18 Apr 2011, 3:56 pm

zer0netgain wrote:
AstroGeek wrote:
Someone else said that a large military is needed or everyone would be speaking Chinese and be living under Sharia Law. Uh...no. Canada spend very little on its military, as do most countries compared to the USA, and we get along just fine.


Um, you're forgetting that it's the bulk of the US military that ensures your nation DOES NOT need to spend so much to enjoy the peace and freedom it now has. If China was the dominant global military power, do you think your nation's spending on defense would remain the same?

Typical American ego...thinking you're meant to be the protector of the world's liberty and that you are the source of all goodness in the world... Perhaps that's rather insulting, in which case please try not to take it too personally. However, it is rather insulting to Canadians and other nationalities for you to imply that we are able to remain free only because of the grace of the American Government.

Whether we'd increase spending depends on who was forming our government--that is how xenophobic the party is. I suspect we'd keep it somewhere around where it is though. There are plenty of non-NATO countries with relatively small militaries that preserve their culture.