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Rhiannon0828
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20 Jun 2011, 8:26 pm

Styphon and Aspi-rant,
If you notice, the very first thing I said is that I don't think vaccines CAUSE autism. However, I don't think that there are any studies that rule them out as a possible trigger.



draelynn
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20 Jun 2011, 10:05 pm

Rhiannon0828 wrote:
Styphon and Aspi-rant,
If you notice, the very first thing I said is that I don't think vaccines CAUSE autism. However, I don't think that there are any studies that rule them out as a possible trigger.


So vaccines are the only possible trigger? Last I checked nothing has been identified as an autism trigger - and the theory of environmental triggers is still being explored. It isn't proven fact that a 'trigger' mechanism is 100% attributable in autism.



Rhiannon0828
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20 Jun 2011, 10:13 pm

I also didn't say that they were the only possible trigger. :roll:



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21 Jun 2011, 10:43 pm

draelynn wrote:
Prof_Pretorius wrote:
I was just reading that there is no Autism among the Amish. They refuse to have their children vaccinated, and a study has shown they have no incidence of Autism. At least that's what the article says ...
Is this true? Can someone quote the source work on this ??


The Amish are a closed community and suffer their own mixed bag variety of genetic disorders thanks to their self imposed genetic bottleneck. To be crude about it - they prove the reasons for preventing marriages between close relatives is valid - they are inbred to the point of genetic damage. If autism was not a genetic trait inherent in any of the small population of Amish that came to the new world then it would stand to reason that they have no autism among their ranks.


Interesting answer. Then there should be closed communities scattered around the world that have a large enough population to not be inbred, and never get vaccines. My guess would be some of the aborigines in Oz that still lead their tribal life in the outback. Any study of Autism among them? Or would an Autistic person be said to have been touched by God?


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draelynn
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21 Jun 2011, 11:22 pm

Prof_Pretorius wrote:
draelynn wrote:
Prof_Pretorius wrote:
I was just reading that there is no Autism among the Amish. They refuse to have their children vaccinated, and a study has shown they have no incidence of Autism. At least that's what the article says ...
Is this true? Can someone quote the source work on this ??


The Amish are a closed community and suffer their own mixed bag variety of genetic disorders thanks to their self imposed genetic bottleneck. To be crude about it - they prove the reasons for preventing marriages between close relatives is valid - they are inbred to the point of genetic damage. If autism was not a genetic trait inherent in any of the small population of Amish that came to the new world then it would stand to reason that they have no autism among their ranks.


Interesting answer. Then there should be closed communities scattered around the world that have a large enough population to not be inbred, and never get vaccines. My guess would be some of the aborigines in Oz that still lead their tribal life in the outback. Any study of Autism among them? Or would an Autistic person be said to have been touched by God?


The way I look at this - autism is prevalent in about 1% of the population with pockets of greater prevalance worldwide. maybe it would be helpful to study the prevalence of autism and the genetic markers for those communities more prone to the condition - and trace them back to a central root. Just from the studies and statistics provided fairly regularly - it sure looks like a common European ancestry is at work. The Asian communities - and when and how their ancestors migrated out of African is fairly well studied and documented. If the Korean statistics for autism are true - it would seem like an anthropologist may be able to backtrack to that common point where our ancestors all comingled. I really wish there was better data out of Africa regarding autism rates - that may be the key to determining how far back in human history autism goes.

From what I understand - children 'touched by the spirits' were respected and possibly revered in ancient Native American culture. Supposedly those variations included autism, downs, schizophrenia and possibly other conditions. Many of these were thought to be born shamans because they were already in touch with the spirit world. Native Americans came by way of Asia so, we know it is from, at least, that far back.

All conjecture of course but interesting enough to warrant further study.



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22 Jun 2011, 8:35 pm

I'm not sure, but I would think that perhaps Autistic individuals would be shamans in various primitive cultures. At the very least they would be the tribal storyteller/historian what with being able to recite extremely long histories.


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kezzieb
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22 Jun 2011, 8:45 pm

I never had my second dose of MMR. I asked my Mum if it was because of the link that was drawn between it and Autism, but she told me that it was because of the link between it and Crohn's disease which my Nan has so I'll already have genetic predisposition (and I really don't want Crohn's). My Mum was actually advised by a Doctor not to have me vaccinated. Apart from that I've had all my others.



draelynn
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23 Jun 2011, 12:05 am

Rhiannon0828 wrote:
I also didn't say that they were the only possible trigger. :roll:


I happen to agree with you in that the vaccine schedule is quite insane. Some kids are getting upwards of 8-10 vaccines in a single day. I cannot find precendence for the safety or the effect of introducing so many toxins simultaneously into a still immature immune system. It think it is reckless and I do think it is casuing children harm.

I do not think that harm is autism.

I think kids may be suffering from brain swelling, auto immune reactions, allergic reaction or a host of other clearly stated adverse vaccine reactions that, in presentation, resemble autism. I'm very skeptical of 'fast onset regressive autism'... it seems much more likey that this is vaccination reactions being grossly misdisgnosed and, even worse, going untreated.

Ever read the symptoms of enchephilitis, especially in vaccine reaction? You'll find much that resembles autism in presentation.

I don't think autism is being 'triggered'. I think that the most obvious and easiest answer is going totally ignored. How about some testing? How about MRI's to see whats going on with these kids. Most of the vaccination reactions can be easily tested for - why are doctors assuming that the child has a disorder that cannot be tested? Wouldn't you logically rule out everything else first? How about we make sure we are talking apples vs apples first.