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What makes one a Christian?
A Christian is one who professes faith in Christ, irrespective of actions. 27%  27%  [ 10 ]
A Christian is one who professes faith in Christ, irrespective of baptism. 3%  3%  [ 1 ]
A Christian is one who professes faith in Christ, irrespective of actions or baptism. 11%  11%  [ 4 ]
A Christian is one who professes faith in Christ and who acts in accord with that faith, irrespective of baptism.. 30%  30%  [ 11 ]
A Christian is one who has been "baptized into Christ," irrespective of current belief or action. 8%  8%  [ 3 ]
A Christian is still a sinner. 22%  22%  [ 8 ]
A Christian does not sin. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 37

jojobean
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20 Jun 2011, 9:52 pm

Christanity is mythology. But the myths have different purposes for different parties involved
to the church it provides power over minds and shapes society to their liking
to the polititians it provides votes, thus power over political structure
to the preachers it provides a purose in life or control over other's lives which ever road they take
to the believers it provides moral structure, guidance, ticket to imortatality, and an explanation for the mysteries of life
to the extreemists it provides a justification for their cause
to the non-believers it provides a sense of superiority over partakers of the myth


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davesalyers
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20 Jun 2011, 10:12 pm

What is the Essence of the Way of Jesus?

The essence of the Good News of the Gospel as taught by Jesus is very simple and can be understood by even a child.

My focus is on following Jesus as Lord which means following the radical grace of his Great Commandment - "Love God and Love one another" rather than Pharisee-style legalism.

In one of the most defining moments of his ministry, Jesus was asked which commandment was the greatest. Matthew 22:36-39 “[Jesus], which is the great commandment in the law?” And he said to him, ’You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and first commandment. And a second is like it, You shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments depend all the law and the prophets.”

In the Gospel of John, he reclarified the Great Commandment. Jesus said, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another; as I have loved you, that you also love one another" (John 13:34). Or as I like to put it - Love God through loving others in the same spirit as God's love for you.

A central tenet to my theology is the Rule of Love, which stated simply claims that if a person's actions are motivated by unselfish, sacrificial love and are not intentionally hurtful to others, such actions are in accordance with the teachings of Jesus and are, thus, lawful in the eyes of God. I reject any so-called doctrines which contradict the Great Commandment of Jesus and the Rule of Love which is how we apply it (therefore, we should reject the teachings of eternal hell, a literal interpretation and inerrancy of the Bible, homophobia, etc. which all contradict the intent or inhibit the practice of the Great Commandment or they are doctrinal positions which imply that God would contradict the Great Commandment).

I believe this teaching of the Great Commandment of Jesus fulfills the intent of the Golden Rule and surpasses it with the higher intent of love.

"Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets." Matthew 7:12, King James Version. "And as ye would that men should do to you, do ye also to them likewise." Luke 6:31, King James Version.

My message is simple. Rather than focusing on what has divided us, let us focus on the essence of the Way of Jesus.

Peace be with you!



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21 Jun 2011, 1:21 am

Belief in the divinity and moral teachings of Jesus Christ.
Both their consistent railing (and voting) against progressive humanistic principles such as Jesus espoused
and general opposition ethically to the notions of genocide, slavery, and mass-rape as commanded/instructed by Yahweh,
renders the vast majority of self-professed "Christians" charlatans.


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Kraichgauer
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21 Jun 2011, 2:04 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Belief in the divinity and moral teachings of Jesus Christ.
Both their consistent railing (and voting) against progressive humanistic principles such as Jesus espoused
and general opposition ethically to the notions of genocide, slavery, and mass-rape as commanded/instructed by Yahweh,
renders the vast majority of self-professed "Christians" charlatans.


That is sadly true.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



MCalavera
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21 Jun 2011, 2:53 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
Belief in the divinity and moral teachings of Jesus Christ.
Both their consistent railing (and voting) against progressive humanistic principles such as Jesus espoused
and general opposition ethically to the notions of genocide, slavery, and mass-rape as commanded/instructed by Yahweh,
renders the vast majority of self-professed "Christians" charlatans.


Jesus didn't always practice what he preached. Alas, he was a charlatan, too.



ValentineWiggin
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21 Jun 2011, 3:24 am

MCalavera wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Belief in the divinity and moral teachings of Jesus Christ.
Both their consistent railing (and voting) against progressive humanistic principles such as Jesus espoused
and general opposition ethically to the notions of genocide, slavery, and mass-rape as commanded/instructed by Yahweh,
renders the vast majority of self-professed "Christians" charlatans.


Jesus didn't always practice what he preached. Alas, he was a charlatan, too.


Still. He was more of an anti-establishment freak than any given Christian wants to admit.


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"Such is the Frailty
of the human Heart, that very few Men, who have no Property, have any Judgment of their own.
They talk and vote as they are directed by Some Man of Property, who has attached their Minds
to his Interest."


Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 8:27 am

ValentineWiggin wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
ValentineWiggin wrote:
Belief in the divinity and moral teachings of Jesus Christ.
Both their consistent railing (and voting) against progressive humanistic principles such as Jesus espoused
and general opposition ethically to the notions of genocide, slavery, and mass-rape as commanded/instructed by Yahweh,
renders the vast majority of self-professed "Christians" charlatans.


Jesus didn't always practice what he preached. Alas, he was a charlatan, too.


Still. He was more of an anti-establishment freak than any given Christian wants to admit.


I guess I am not a "given Christian", then. I heard of the "born again Christian" thing, I know Cathoilc, Orthodox, Evangelical and Charismatic Christians, but what is this "given Christian"? Is it like dedicated?

You have, I fear, no idea just how anti-establishment he is.



01001011
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21 Jun 2011, 8:46 am

Philologos wrote:
01001011 wrote:
Quote:
A Christian is one who professes faith in Christ and who acts in accord with that faith, irrespective of baptism..


What does it mean by acting according to Christian faith? That is nothing but arbitrary criterion by some 'Christians' to reject 'bad' people.


It may seem that way from outside. Inside we are warned to avoid so far as in us lies fihurig out who ids the bad people.

But look you - since at the least you uphold the value of the logical examination of evidence - the record clearly shows that the declaration one is Christian or membership in a Christian-associated organization does not mean one is not a "bad person"

[By the way, how does one using objective materialist criteria determine what is a "bad person"? Sounds like a value judgement to me]

Does the record also show that a greater percentage of those who self identify as Christian or are members of a Christian-associated organization are "bad people", compared to the proportion of "bad people" in other groups?


That is also my criticism. Some people think being a members of a Christian-associated organization and believe in the content of the Bible is not sufficient to be a Christian. They think that a 'true Christian' must conform to THEIR idea of how a Christian must behave (and they typically claim that people like Hitler are not Christians).



Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 10:55 am

01001011:

I am opening myself up here, but big deal. I have been attacked by better clods than certaion ones unnamed.

I repeat:

01001011 - you are pretty biochemical materialist at least as you present yourself here.

Will you stipulate that putting on a dress and calling yourself a woman does not make you a woman?

A step further out of the materialist comfort zone, but at least it is observable behavior:

Will you stipulate that raising your hand and swearing to tell the truth does not make you an honest person?



Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 11:00 am

Sending in three boxtops and a $1 money order DOES make you a member of the Bobby Glowworm Sparkle Club.

Standing before the congregation and affirming you accept their statement of faith [with the pastor telling you you do not actuasllty have to believe what it SAYS - actual example] DOES make you a member of the Rolling Hills Community Church.

But membership in a Christian organization or pious toktok or knowing Bible trivia does not make you a Christian in the only sense that Jesus has said matters.



davesalyers
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21 Jun 2011, 11:30 am

MCalavera wrote:
Jesus didn't always practice what he preached. Alas, he was a charlatan, too.


That is only if you make the mistake of ascribing infallibility and inerrancy to a canon of scripture that was selected by a human committee in the course of becoming the official religion of the Roman Empire. I would focus only on those basic teachings of Jesus which seem consistent across the Gospels (source "Q') - the rest could be fluff to justify particular sociopolitical theological stances.



Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 3:05 pm

davesalyers wrote:
MCalavera wrote:
Jesus didn't always practice what he preached. Alas, he was a charlatan, too.


That is only if you make the mistake of ascribing infallibility and inerrancy to a canon of scripture that was selected by a human committee in the course of becoming the official religion of the Roman Empire. I would focus only on those basic teachings of Jesus which seem consistent across the Gospels (source "Q') - the rest could be fluff to justify particular sociopolitical theological stances.


The reduction to Q < Quelle is no more useful than the appeal to the inerrancy of [lost] originals. Appearing in more than one gospel does not in fact guarantee authenticity - borrowing and later editing are in no way ruled out.

This is why [you should pardon it, but why should I care, I have at this point nothing to lose] the letter is inadequate if tha spirit is not involved.

God knows how many time I read the gospels - not counting other parts of scripture - with no effect or understanding.



davesalyers
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21 Jun 2011, 4:00 pm

Philologos wrote:
The reduction to Q < Quelle is no more useful than the appeal to the inerrancy of [lost] originals. Appearing in more than one gospel does not in fact guarantee authenticity - borrowing and later editing are in no way ruled out.

This is why [you should pardon it, but why should I care, I have at this point nothing to lose] the letter is inadequate if tha spirit is not involved.

God knows how many time I read the gospels - not counting other parts of scripture - with no effect or understanding.


Granted - I can't quite argue against your point.

I just think that following general spiritual teachings that promote love for others than than devolving to mere egocentrism and selfish motives would make the world a better place - despite the protestations of Ayn Rand followers and rabid libertarians. The problem is that so few self-described Christians focus on what Jesus actually taught - they want to focus on a paganized Pauline, angry God sacrificial cult mentality to avoid "hell".

By following the Great Commandment, I hope to order my Ruling Loves in a Heavenly manner - Love of God (you can define as the interdependent forces of the Universe or the connections between us all) and Love of Others before Love of the World (Power, Money, Prestige, etc.) and Love of Self. Obviously Hellish Ruling Loves would be in an inverse order. To me, heaven and hell are often states of consciousness that we choose by what we love.

(Note - this interpretation is much closer to the same perennial philosophy that one can find in the teachings of Vedanta, Buddhism, Quakerism, and the Christian mystics - rather than the pop standard interpretation of Christianity.)



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21 Jun 2011, 8:49 pm

Do you mean the Christian pop standard version or the media pop standard version? Both of which I kind of know, though they are far from me.

Here is a thing to ponder - we are not all the same.

Don't know your life experiences, but if you look it is hard to miss. Over and over, every phase of life - one person says X, and another says - huh???! !!

Different poetries / arts / music - what talks to you is silent to me. Different sciences - what gets me following a trail to an exciting conclusion just looks like dusty disorder to you. And the inspirational quote that lifts HER to the gates of heaven means no more to me than it does to you.

A Mahatma who is authority-bound to Paul and Proverbs - bulwarks of the Evangelical church and bugaboos to many - may be doing incredible things for both theology and mankind. I know one guy who comes close to that - scholar, gentleman, friend, man of God, teacher, father. His mind and therefor his theology - in the old sense of "view of God" - are not mine, but he is GOOD.

And a jerk who follows the Christ of the Beatitudes and the Buddha may be - a jerk. A lowlife. An idiot beyond Sand's dreams.



davesalyers
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21 Jun 2011, 8:53 pm

Um, amen? :wink:

Actually I think that people should use whatever "vehicle" works for them to become a better person.



Philologos
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21 Jun 2011, 10:57 pm

davesalyers wrote:
Um, amen? :wink:

Actually I think that people should use whatever "vehicle" works for them to become a better person.


Right - that is how we are designed - different instruments which in concert are more than the sum of the parts. Unfortunately, there is a strong temptation - which even I feel but which is most obvious in the pressure toward uniformity of the Organizing classes - to think the sound of one's own instrument is the only fit music.

And of course often and often the organizations reflect the uniformity drive of the Organizers.

The universities have in the past resisted it and may again even though it seems as if the Organizers have a stranglehold.

And organizations of the size and complexity of the Church of Rome and - at least until the great leap in communications - the US - have historically harbored unhomogenized niches.