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ruveyn
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29 Jun 2011, 7:12 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:

Well strangely I do know where antarctica is and that is because I trust that some knowledge as collated and propagated by my fellows is both truthfull and empiric in as much as anything is. What exactly is your point mister grumpy empirical materialist old codger?


I am distinguishing between first hand knowledge and 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand knowledge. Most of us learn geography 2nd and 3rd hand because few of us travel to the places we learn about.

Mock me if you will, but facts trump beliefs each and every time.

ruveyn



Philologos
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29 Jun 2011, 8:46 pm

ruveyn wrote:

Mock me if you will, but facts trump beliefs each and every time.

ruveyn


Ach, du lieber Gott!

There IS no fact that does not stand only as long as its underlying beliefs. How is it that types like you and MG can be so BLINKERED that you deny everything not in the center of the beam of your minitorch? I did not and do not get it, though I know it is a "fact" of the Benchmarked Mind.

-----------

By the way, does nobody else feel a huge temptation seeing the head of this thread to say you AGREE?



ruveyn
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29 Jun 2011, 9:12 pm

Philologos wrote:
ruveyn wrote:

Mock me if you will, but facts trump beliefs each and every time.

ruveyn


Ach, du lieber Gott!

There IS no fact that does not stand only as long as its underlying beliefs. How is it that types like you and MG can be so BLINKERED that you deny everything not in the center of the beam of your minitorch? I did not and do not get it, though I know it is a "fact" of the Benchmarked Mind.

-----------

By the way, does nobody else feel a huge temptation seeing the head of this thread to say you AGREE?


Facts ARE what IS. The world is exactly the facts of the world and nothing else.

There are facts and there are opinions.

ruveyn



Philologos
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29 Jun 2011, 9:26 pm

ruveyn wrote:
-----------

By the way, does nobody else feel a huge temptation seeing the head of this thread to say you AGREE?


Facts ARE what IS. The world is exactly the facts of the world and nothing else.

There are facts and there are opinions.

ruveyn[/quote]

Oh, absolutely. No question. Thing is - not you nor I nor any human NOW or PAST or to come before the end knows all and only those facts. All we got is different degrees of probability on derivations from our assumptions / beliefs /.opinions.



RedHanrahan
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30 Jun 2011, 3:54 pm

ruveyn wrote:
RedHanrahan wrote:

Well strangely I do know where antarctica is and that is because I trust that some knowledge as collated and propagated by my fellows is both truthfull and empiric in as much as anything is. What exactly is your point mister grumpy empirical materialist old codger?


I am distinguishing between first hand knowledge and 2nd, 3rd and 4th hand knowledge. Most of us learn geography 2nd and 3rd hand because few of us travel to the places we learn about.

Mock me if you will, but facts trump beliefs each and every time.

ruveyn


Ok, in all seriousness. What is your point? What fact am I missing here?

Please note the absence of any form of mockery or denegrative adend.

peace j


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Just because we can does not mean we should.

What vision is left? And is anyone asking?

Have a great day!


Philologos
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01 Jul 2011, 7:27 am

Brother Hanrahan -

you can rabbit chicken with ruveyn till your face is more red than your monicker and he will just hunker down and pit bull on the chorus that what he knows is knowledge and there is nothing else, and since he does not believe in belief what he "knows" is immutable.



ruveyn
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01 Jul 2011, 10:26 am

Philologos wrote:
Brother Hanrahan -

you can rabbit chicken with ruveyn till your face is more red than your monicker and he will just hunker down and pit bull on the chorus that what he knows is knowledge and there is nothing else, and since he does not believe in belief what he "knows" is immutable.


I know rather little but his I do know: Facts trump theories and beliefs each and every time.

ruveyn



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01 Jul 2011, 8:25 pm

And the fact is that the facts we base our theories on sit on what we can only describe as beliefs unless we ignore the facts.



ruveyn
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02 Jul 2011, 10:06 am

Philologos wrote:
And the fact is that the facts we base our theories on sit on what we can only describe as beliefs unless we ignore the facts.


There are only two "beliefs" that stand up by themselves.

1. Contradictions do not exist in the real world. Whatever really does exist does not contradict itself.

2. There is a real world outside our sense and outside our bodies that has its own nature which is independent of what we "believe"

Our refusal to be solopsists is an act of faith. But a reasonable act of faith.

ruveyn