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kittie
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27 Jun 2011, 7:17 pm

littlelily613 wrote:
And you are rude. Some vegans make the choice to eat honey. That is their opinion and their decision. I really do not care if you except. I am a vegan to myself and to almost everyone else I know. Sometimes I am NEVER good enough for certain people. I would rather use my energy for something more useful than trying to please the unpleaseable.


Just to say, I agree... I don't eat animal products and avoid animal products in all other areas of my life (cosmetics etc, only to the extent that's practical), but I still eat honey. I don't see any ehtical concerns with honey, so I still consider myself Vegan. :)



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27 Jun 2011, 7:24 pm

Information I copied and pasted from a vegan website: http://www.compassionatespirit.com/is-honey-vegan.htm

There’s another significant issue concerning bees, and that is their role as pollinators. Domestically managed bee colonies have dropped by half since 1945. Feral honeybees have essentially disappeared in the United States. The value of bee pollination for both humans and wildlife is hard to quantify but is probably immense. One-third of U. S. crops depend on pollinators; some plants on the endangered species list are endangered precisely because they lack pollinators.

Beekeepers now migrate from place to place in the country performing pollination services for farmers, which helps human food supply but masks the impact of the decline of honeybees on wild plants (and the animals which depend on the plants). Beekeepers may make just as much or more money from pollination services as from selling honey. One emerging practice among hobbyist beekeepers is "top bar" hives, which produce much less honey but also requires much less disturbance (and killing) of bees.

In any event, the use of bees as pollinators raises a significant problem for those objecting to honey on the grounds that bee-keeping kills insects. To be consistent, one would also need to object to all bee-keeping, and then how are we going to pollinate our crops, and how are wild plants on which wild animals depend going to be pollinated?

The second problem is the one that Dr. Greger is more concerned about: the "consistency" issue. If vegans are against killing bees, and they are making such a big deal about it that they are including it in their definition of "vegan," then does that mean that we should strive to stop killing all insects? Why do we object to the rather small matter of bee-keeping and ignore the huge matter of pesticide use? Would we refuse to eat a vegan meal if some of the ingredients were not organic? Would we declare that vegans who occasionally ate a meal with non-organic ingredients were not "true vegans"? If not, why not?


***I am doing my part. Many animals will not be tortured because I am not eating them or drinking their milk or eating their eggs. I will eat ethical honey from small-scale farmers. I am doing as much as I possibly can to help the planet I live on at this point in time. To rudely call me a liar and infer that I am not doing enough is just ridiculous! Like I said, some people are unpleaseable. This is not a debate thread. If you would like to open one up, feel free. This thread is for recipes!***



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27 Jun 2011, 7:48 pm

kittie wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
And you are rude. Some vegans make the choice to eat honey. That is their opinion and their decision. I really do not care if you except. I am a vegan to myself and to almost everyone else I know. Sometimes I am NEVER good enough for certain people. I would rather use my energy for something more useful than trying to please the unpleaseable.


Just to say, I agree... I don't eat animal products and avoid animal products in all other areas of my life (cosmetics etc, only to the extent that's practical), but I still eat honey. I don't see any ehtical concerns with honey, so I still consider myself Vegan. :)


:) Thank you--I too, will not purchase any more leather and suede, etc, and will try to avoid animal testing and such.



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27 Jun 2011, 8:54 pm

There's nothing wrong with eating honey - that is, if you like sucking down insect vomit.

Really.

Look it up.


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27 Jun 2011, 8:54 pm

(Duplicated post)


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littlelily613
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27 Jun 2011, 9:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
There's nothing wrong with eating honey - that is, if you like sucking down insect vomit.

Really.

Look it up.


I already know how it's made. Yet...I still eat it.

Anyway, I editted the original post, so please let's stop the debate on honey and use this thread for its original intention: recipes. If everyone would like to continue the debate, please move it into a new thread. Thanks!



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27 Jun 2011, 9:13 pm

Sorry 'bout that, Lil.

Is there any brand of pasta that doesn't use egg protein? Does it still have any flavor?

I really like pasta, but the whole-grain types either lack flavor, or have the texture of wallpaper paste.


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littlelily613
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27 Jun 2011, 11:26 pm

Fnord wrote:
Sorry 'bout that, Lil.

Is there any brand of pasta that doesn't use egg protein? Does it still have any flavor?

I really like pasta, but the whole-grain types either lack flavor, or have the texture of wallpaper paste.


That's okay! It was more trying to stop the coming debate anyway rather than a direct hit at your post which is probably how that seemed.

Egg protein in pasta?? I have never even thought of that before! 8O *runs out to check my pasta ingredients*


whole grain durum wheat semolina, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin, niacin, folic acid, ferrous sulfate...

Does any of that somehow equate to an egg protein?? I really hope not!

My brand is Catelli Healthy Harvest. Obviously, this one is the whole wheat version but the white pasta probably has similar ingredients. I prefer whole wheat over white because I think it has more flavour. Not that you could tell the difference between ANY noodle with the LOADS of REALLY SPICY sauce I make! lol


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28 Jun 2011, 5:07 am

littlelily613 wrote:
YourMother wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
I actually DO eat honey, so I don't care if there is honey in the recipes. With the state of the world's honey bee population--and the fact that the global food supply depends on their survival-- I think a refusal on my part to eat honey will only contribute to that. If you don't eat honey, that is your choice! Please respect my choice to eat it--and yes, I still call myself a VEGAN! :)


By definition, you are not a vegan. So you are a liar.


And you are rude. Some vegans make the choice to eat honey. That is their opinion and their decision. I really do not care if you except. I am a vegan to myself and to almost everyone else I know. Sometimes I am NEVER good enough for certain people. I would rather use my energy for something more useful than trying to please the unpleaseable.


Well, I'm sorry if I came across as rude, I didn't mean to, but what I did mean is that when a vegan makes the decision to eat honey, that vegan is no longer a vegan. I'll leave it at that. I don't want it to sound like I'm attacking anyone.



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28 Jun 2011, 5:41 am

AAAGH!! ! ENOUGH WITH THE BEES!! ! my head is buzzing!! !


Okay recipe I like (sort of nicked from a book)

Frying pan pizza:

Ingredients:

flour
baking powder
water

toppings of choice (therefore can be adapted for veggie recipe too!)

Put a heaped pile of flour in a mixing bowl. Put about a teaspoon of baking powder in with it. Put enough water in the mixture until the stuff becomes sticky and starts turning into a dough. When it looks and feels dough...y... take it out, roll it into a ball, then flatten it either using kitchen utensils or your hands (hands is messy but fun!).

Put a decent amount of oil in a frying pan and heat it up (about medium heat). Insert the base and leave it for 3 minutes. Turn it over (it should look slightly brown and should be hard on the cooked side). Keep checking to make sure it isn't burning (but generally it takes a couple of minutes).

Heat the grill to medium/high heat. While it is heating up, put toppings of your choice on (will list some ideas below). Put base, complete with toppings onto the grill for a further three minutes et voila, you have a pizza. Enjoy!


Topping ideas:

Tomato puree/paste regardless of other ingredients

The book suggests courgettes and vegan parmesan. I quite liked this but it took too much effort (for me anyway) to cook the courgettes as well.

Vegan Parmesan on it's own (The one I get is actually extremely nice! It's powdered).

For cows milk intolerant, use goat cheese instead of cows cheese, for non-intolerant use cow cheese of choice. (and enjoy you lucky.... rude word...)

Or come up with your own ideas!


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28 Jun 2011, 10:41 am

Fnord wrote:
Sorry 'bout that, Lil.

Is there any brand of pasta that doesn't use egg protein? Does it still have any flavor?

I really like pasta, but the whole-grain types either lack flavor, or have the texture of wallpaper paste.


Quote:
Fresh pasta: often made with eggs. Dried pasta is usually suitable for vegans


Source: List of foods which may not be suitable for vegans

Some companies do offer vegan pasta.

For different types you can search here here and type 'pasta' (or the food you want to search). The products listed have been confirmed to be vegan, although

Quote:
"Possibly animal-derived

• E101 riboflavin, lactoflavin, vitamin B2"


Source: Hidden Animal-Products

All links lead to different pages on the The Vegan Society.



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28 Jun 2011, 5:17 pm

YourMother wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
YourMother wrote:
littlelily613 wrote:
I actually DO eat honey, so I don't care if there is honey in the recipes. With the state of the world's honey bee population--and the fact that the global food supply depends on their survival-- I think a refusal on my part to eat honey will only contribute to that. If you don't eat honey, that is your choice! Please respect my choice to eat it--and yes, I still call myself a VEGAN! :)


By definition, you are not a vegan. So you are a liar.


And you are rude. Some vegans make the choice to eat honey. That is their opinion and their decision. I really do not care if you except. I am a vegan to myself and to almost everyone else I know. Sometimes I am NEVER good enough for certain people. I would rather use my energy for something more useful than trying to please the unpleaseable.


Well, I'm sorry if I came across as rude, I didn't mean to, but what I did mean is that when a vegan makes the decision to eat honey, that vegan is no longer a vegan. I'll leave it at that. I don't want it to sound like I'm attacking anyone.


It was perhaps not the technicality of your point but the judgement loaded use of the term liar?

Now lets get back to recipies folks, I may not have any to offer without plagarising but I do want to read some, this diversion of 'honey ethics' was my fault and therefore my bad :oops:

peace j


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littlelily613
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28 Jun 2011, 9:40 pm

YourMother wrote:
Well, I'm sorry if I came across as rude, I didn't mean to, but what I did mean is that when a vegan makes the decision to eat honey, that vegan is no longer a vegan. I'll leave it at that. I don't want it to sound like I'm attacking anyone.


That's your opinion. I have a different one. You can stick to yours, and I will stick to mine. I am a vegan.


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28 Jun 2011, 9:42 pm

Jellybean wrote:
AAAGH!! ! ENOUGH WITH THE BEES!! ! my head is buzzing!! !


Okay recipe I like (sort of nicked from a book)

Frying pan pizza:

Ingredients:

flour
baking powder
water

toppings of choice (therefore can be adapted for veggie recipe too!)

Put a heaped pile of flour in a mixing bowl. Put about a teaspoon of baking powder in with it. Put enough water in the mixture until the stuff becomes sticky and starts turning into a dough. When it looks and feels dough...y... take it out, roll it into a ball, then flatten it either using kitchen utensils or your hands (hands is messy but fun!).

Put a decent amount of oil in a frying pan and heat it up (about medium heat). Insert the base and leave it for 3 minutes. Turn it over (it should look slightly brown and should be hard on the cooked side). Keep checking to make sure it isn't burning (but generally it takes a couple of minutes).

Heat the grill to medium/high heat. While it is heating up, put toppings of your choice on (will list some ideas below). Put base, complete with toppings onto the grill for a further three minutes et voila, you have a pizza. Enjoy!


Topping ideas:

Tomato puree/paste regardless of other ingredients

The book suggests courgettes and vegan parmesan. I quite liked this but it took too much effort (for me anyway) to cook the courgettes as well.

Vegan Parmesan on it's own (The one I get is actually extremely nice! It's powdered).

For cows milk intolerant, use goat cheese instead of cows cheese, for non-intolerant use cow cheese of choice. (and enjoy you lucky.... rude word...)

Or come up with your own ideas!


I'll give that a try! At the risk of sounding like a complete moron: what are courgettes? I never heard of those before!


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28 Jun 2011, 9:46 pm

RedHanrahan wrote:
It was perhaps not the technicality of your point but the judgement loaded use of the term liar?

Now lets get back to recipies folks, I may not have any to offer without plagarising but I do want to read some, this diversion of 'honey ethics' was my fault and therefore my bad :oops:

peace j


Yes, it was the term liar. Anywho, no worries anymore. I editted the original post so people can add in whatever recipes they want (that should be meat-free, dairy-free, and egg-free at the minimum) and people can make their own choices about other ingredients they may or may not want to add. I am really hoping that little bump can just be forgotten now. I will drop it and I hope everyone else does too. This could be a really helpful thread, IMO. It can help people at all stages of vegetarianism and veganism, and even for omnivores who just want to be a bit more veggie-friendly with their dinners--every little bit helps, IMO.


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28 Jun 2011, 9:54 pm

This next recipe I created myself. I have a tendency to just kind of improvise and hope the resulting product is something edible. If I like it, I later write down the recipe. This dip turned out really well. Even my carnivore father who rarely likes my veggie food said he loved it!
If you do try it, let me know how it turns out:

Artichoke Dip

3-4 artichokes from a can, finely chopped
1/4 each of a red and green pepper, finely diced
1 large green onion, finely sliced
1 clove garlic, minced
6-8 green olives, halved lengthwise and then thinly sliced
2 generous tbsps of vegan mayonnaise
2 generous tbsps of Tofutti plain Better than Cream Cheese

Mix all together in a bowl then serve with tortilla chips (or whatever else you like to eat with artichoke dip!)

All these measurements were approximates. Basically for the mayo and cream cheese you use a 50:50 ratio and until you have your desired consistency. I used about 2 tbsps of each and the dip made one serving.


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