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Hazelwudi
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19 Sep 2006, 1:41 pm

emp wrote:
I have seen a number of posts now where it seems to me that some people here have a tendency to think that anyone unusual or outcast is probably Aspy. Nonsense.

Speaking of that topic, bah, half the people using this forum are probably not Aspergers, despite what they think. I suspect we have many non-Aspy outcasts here, or non-Aspy people experiencing social or dating difficulties. Personally, I think that if you have never had a consultation with a psychologist who specializes in Aspergers, then you should not be posting in WrongPlanet beyond getting initial information/assistance.


I disagree. I'm a thesis away from getting a master's degree in psych, and I know damned full well what's wrong with me. I've coped well, all things considered, but I'm still "on the spectrum" as you would say.

I don't want paperwork following me around through life, attesting that I have what NT's consider a critical, largely irreparable defect... which is precisely how they consider all which falls under the label of Pervasive Developmental Disorder.

Unless basic logic is utterly foreign to you, it shouldn't be difficult for you to see the rationale behind my decision, yes?



Mnemosyne
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19 Sep 2006, 2:11 pm

emp wrote:
I have seen a number of posts now where it seems to me that some people here have a tendency to think that anyone unusual or outcast is probably Aspy. Nonsense.

Speaking of that topic, bah, half the people using this forum are probably not Aspergers, despite what they think. I suspect we have many non-Aspy outcasts here, or non-Aspy people experiencing social or dating difficulties.


I agree with this part of your post, not so much on the rest of it. I do see people jumping left and right on the "this person likes to be alone, they must have AS!" Being weird/unusual/an outcast can come from a variety of sources, not just from having AS. I would say that those who kill are LESS likely to be Aspies, because we are generally known for being honest and not breaking rules. I know constant bullying can wear anyone down, but I think those with AS are likely to express it in other ways.



pluto
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19 Sep 2006, 2:20 pm

emp wrote:
Speaking of that topic, bah, half the people using this forum are probably not Aspergers, despite what they think. I suspect we have many non-Aspy outcasts here, or non-Aspy people experiencing social or dating difficulties. Personally, I think that if you have never had a consultation with a psychologist who specializes in Aspergers, then you should not be posting in WrongPlanet beyond getting initial information/assistance.


I don't agree about consultation with an expert being a pre-requisite
for offering opinions on WP,or even for a diagnosis.
In my case I was sent to a pyschologist at school but that was in 1974(20 years before Aspergers was even accepted as a condition!) I'm now 47 and only heard about AS last month after reading about
the symptoms.I can relate to them all including what happened in
my school years,but how could an expert follow that aspect up at
this stage,32 years after it happened ? I also have a side-effect of
AS called Synaesthesia where you see numbers etc as colours but
there is no exam for that type of symptom in any case. You have
to take my word for it that I see 1 as black,2 as white,3 as green etc.
I think most adults with AS are intelligent enough to be able to self-diagnose,providing they are fully aware of all the symptoms
and criteria. They can then decide whether it's beneficial to seek
professional help.
I also think the WP forum helps people come to conclusions and
the more opinions and experiences from different people then so
much the better.



krex
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19 Sep 2006, 2:50 pm

Havnt been DXed yet....warningwarningwarning.......

That cleared up....I have had vague fantasies....if I want to kill myself,of taking a few pedophiles or rapists with me....but logic restrains me....fear of vigilantism as an idea,disgusts me...violence in general revolts me...I can not imagine an aspie "randomly" opening fire on people...finding a specific
target,maybe....fortunately....I have an illogical belief in the "possibility" of reincarnation...I dont want to come back in a worse situation then I had this time around...perhaps,this is the most good that religion
offers humanity....fears of reprisal....actually wish more people had that fear...twould be a nicer world.


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Aeturnus
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19 Sep 2006, 3:12 pm

There's no way of knowing from a television spectacle whether or not someone has aspergers. Most of the kids in regards to these school shootings are seriously depressed. That much I tend to agree with, because most end up wanting to take their own life. I imagine that some of these people are probably bipolar, which I think has a tendency for violence, including premeditated violence and thoughts of revenge. I believe aspies can also have bipolar, but aspergers alone is unlikely. These shootings seem to be more premeditated and well thought out, so I can't even say it happens during a meltdown.

I believe that there is a breaking point for anyone, and I tend to attribute a lot of this to the way that the schools handle children. I have heard about schools whom disregard student reports of abuse and consider them tattletales, simply because the teachers did not see anything go on. Kids are far more smarter than that, and most students whom are picked on tend to experience it outside of the teacher eyes. This is even stated in many books, and I'm quite surprised that teachers and school officials don't even seem to recognize this.

There's also the family factor. Even if someone is aspie, if he / she has had serious family and / or school troubles, then some of this could be attributed to a personality disorder along with asperger's. There's just no way of knowing from a television spectacle. I also believe that the television hype of all these shootings tends to create the epidemic. These students think they're going out in a blaze of glory, and they may even think they're actually changing the fate of the world by doing this.

- Ray M -



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19 Sep 2006, 3:50 pm

emp wrote:
Personally, I think that if you have never had a consultation with a psychologist who specializes in Aspergers, then you should not be posting in WrongPlanet beyond getting initial information/assistance.


In that case I'm very glad that the forum administrators do not share your opinion!

1 A.S. is neurobiological disorder, not a psychological condition, so I'd be surprised if a psychologist would be qualified to diagnose it. (My sons were diagnosed with A.S.D. by a multi-disciplinary team at a child development centre)

2 It is accepted by most professionals in the field that there are a great number of undiagnosed people around

Simon Baron-Cohen and others wrote:
“Regretfully, anyone born before 1980 who may have had AS are likely to have gone undiagnosed, as AS was not recognized in the UK before this time”


http://www.autismresearchcentre.com/res ... t.asp?id=8

3 It is also known that to get a diagnosis as an adult is very difficult

National Autistic Society wrote:
“Gaining a diagnosis as an adult isn't easy, especially as Asperger syndrome isn't widely heard of among GPs. .....It can be very hard to convince your doctor that a diagnosis would be either relevant or necessary”


http://www.nas.org.uk/nas/jsp/polopoly.jsp?d=255&a=3341

4 A lot of people – myself included – do not see any benefit in getting a diagnosis as an adult



mysteriouslyabsent
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19 Sep 2006, 4:05 pm

I used to have a keen interest in guns and the associated tactics as one of my pet interests, unfortunately this was when I was still in school and some of these 'school shootings' started taking place at the time. Well that just made everyone think I was going to shoot everyone, 'ooh he is quiet and he like guns = psychopathic killer'. Ignoring the fact that I like guns for the machinery, I've hardly even fired one, I just like how they work and operate, like other machines, I love machines. They also ignore the fact that most of the popular video games are basically first person shooting games that everyone plays, in fact I never play these games, they dont really interest me.

Obviously all this questioning made me think about whether I was in fact a killer or even capable of such things and how would I do it? why would I do it? I did end up giving it some thought about how I would do it though I could never come up with a good reason for actually doing it. I came to the eventual conclusion that frankly most of the nut jobs who do these shootings dont actually kill that many people relative to what they could with the ammunition they expend. I suspect an aspie, though I am really only speaking for myself here, would do a much more ruthlessly efficient job of killing people if the need arose, although since we tend to work on logic it would be highly unlikely for us to do anything at all unless there was some sort of reason or need, say everyone had turned into zombies or something utterly bizarrre like that.

Anyway this tells me any shooter were probably just firing rather indiscriminately, like in the movies, which would indicate to me that they are on more of a power trip than any sort of logically planned misson to kill as many people as possible.

This also suggests to me that the individuals involved are people who have been picked on too much and had all their power and diginity taken away and basically been pushed beyond the limit where they go slightly mad and seek revenge using the only means of power they feel they have left to deploy.

Aspies in my experience tend not to be explosive personalities like this, we tend to be mostly fairly cool and level headed, usually it is the NTs who explode with rage and frustration at our actions than vice versa. In fact I can't think of any AS person I know who has anything resembling an anger problem. I can think of plenty of supposed NTs who do explode with anger at these aspies and other minor provocations though.

Dont get me wrong, I get pissed off if you push me too far like anyone else, just my limit seems to be a bit higher than average. When this happens I will usually hit back hard, but then when I see the person on the ground wimpering I feel bad so I try to explain why I did what I did to prevent it happening again.

I dont like hurting other people, I derive no satisfaction from animal cruelty, in fact it breaks my heart to see animals or other hurt, I even hate dogs, but I dont like to see them mistreated. I think you will find that many of these random shooters are the type that has tortured animals in the past, you have to be a psychopath or pretty screwed up to be able to actually enjoy killing people up close in cold blood or torturing living things. If you really look at Aspergers, then I doubt we are more likely to turn into crazed killers than any other section of society, we are more likely to just withdraw further from society than to hit back in some egotistical way.

And so what if some people here don't actually have aspergers, they obviously have similar symptoms and characteristics if they think they do have it, which means they will probably gain some benefit from advice on how to deal with problems we face anyway.



krex
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19 Sep 2006, 5:10 pm

Well said.....

*Krex claps(quitly)


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CockneyRebel
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19 Sep 2006, 5:57 pm

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Dr. Evil is the Evil Side.



emp
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20 Sep 2006, 4:40 am

appassionata wrote:
emp wrote:
Personally, I think that if you have never had a consultation with a psychologist who specializes in Aspergers, then you should not be posting in WrongPlanet beyond getting initial information/assistance.


In that case I'm very glad that the forum administrators do not share your opinion!

1 A.S. is neurobiological disorder, not a psychological condition, so I'd be surprised if a psychologist would be qualified to diagnose it. (My sons were diagnosed with A.S.D. by a multi-disciplinary team at a child development centre)

That comment is worthless because obviously I would have no objection to a professional who is more qualified than a psychologist. And anyway, you are wrong. For example, the well-known Dr Tony Attwood (author of the book "Asperger's Syndrome: A Guide for Parents and Professionals") is a psychologist and is certainly qualified in Aspergers.

appassionata wrote:
2 It is accepted by most professionals in the field that there are a great number of undiagnosed people around
...
3 It is also known that to get a diagnosis as an adult is very difficult
...
4 A lot of people – myself included – do not see any benefit in getting a diagnosis as an adult

And the rest of your comments are also worthless because I did NOT say a diagnosis!! I said a consultation! Gawddammit I hate it when people reply to me about things I never said!



emp
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20 Sep 2006, 4:57 am

Hazelwudi wrote:
emp wrote:
I have seen a number of posts now where it seems to me that some people here have a tendency to think that anyone unusual or outcast is probably Aspy. Nonsense.


I disagree. I'm a thesis away from getting a master's degree in psych, and I know damned full well what's wrong with me.

That is another worthless comment. Obviously if you are a psychologist yourself (or very nearly one) then I would have no objection.

Hazelwudi wrote:
I don't want paperwork following me around through life, attesting that I have what NT's consider a critical, largely irreparable defect...

Rubbish nonsense crap! Merely having consultations with a psychologist does NOT create any paperwork attesting that you have anything.

-------------------------

CanyonWind wrote:
emp

You post to say people who haven't been diagnosed shouldn't post, but your profile says you're undiagnosed.

Thats too wierd to even piss me off.

No, what is weird is that you think I said diagnosis when in reality I said consultation. Go read my message again.

-----------------------

DirtDawg wrote:
I'm one of those evil people who has chosen to not be diagnosed.

Dammit you people cannot read! I never said diagnosed!!



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20 Sep 2006, 5:18 am

emp wrote:
And the rest of your comments are also worthless because I did NOT say a diagnosis!! I said a consultation! Gawddammit I hate it when people reply to me about things I never said!


Here we go again.

A) Get a diagnosis of Asperger from an expert on Asperger
B) have a consultation with and expert on Asperger

Larger_context(A) == Larger_context(B)

Your smart guy Emp very good at spotting iillogical things. Your getting bogged down
in minor details when you could be making good points.

The OP post concept of asperger being a mayor factor in violent crime is the real
rubbish here.



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20 Sep 2006, 7:07 am

emp wrote:

DirtDawg wrote:
I'm one of those evil people who has chosen to not be diagnosed.

Dammit you people cannot read! I never said diagnosed!!

Mince words now if you like, but a consultation will not reveal whether a person has AS or not. Several of us actually read your comments.


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20 Sep 2006, 8:49 am

I haven't been officially diagnosed and I refuse to be. I'm not listing all the reasons here, but they are good ones, and it's my choice and my life. For one thing, I don't want it on my medical records.

Crime...a young friend of mine has been in trouble with the law on several occasions. He is a diagnosed Aspie, and now has a criminal record for pushing a kid in a fight because he panicked (pushing someone is 'common assault' in the UK) and because he was honest and when the police and courts said "did you push this kid" he said "yes I did". He was equally honest when stopped with a quantity of low-grade drugs on him (only enough for his personal use - he says they help him to cope with the world). he got another criminal record for that too. And for shouting and swearing at the police when two of them manhandled him into handcuffs and he panicked over what they were doing.

Is he a dangerous criminal who needs arresting and trying to make society safer? Not really. But he's an easy target for police trying to make it look like they're solving crimes.



emp
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20 Sep 2006, 9:45 am

DirtDawg wrote:
emp wrote:

DirtDawg wrote:
I'm one of those evil people who has chosen to not be diagnosed.

Dammit you people cannot read! I never said diagnosed!!

Mince words now if you like, but a consultation will not reveal whether a person has AS or not. Several of us actually read your comments.

I never said that a consultation will reveal whether a person has AS or not!! Why do you people insist on responding to things that I never said or even thought?

----------------------

TheMachine1 wrote:
Your smart guy Emp very good at spotting iillogical things. Your getting bogged down in minor details when you could be making good points.


It does not make sense for me to start making good points about why everyone here should get a diagnosis -- because that was never my opinion in the first place!!

You are all getting side-tracked responding to things I never said or thought.



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20 Sep 2006, 10:55 am

scrulie wrote:
I can definitely see how someone who has been consistently misunderstood, humiliated and rejected in their lives can become bitter and twisted, and this happens a lot to aspies! There are always extreme examples of any scenario somewhere. It's probably inevitable that some of these extreme cases result in tragedy.


Check out some of the threads on this very site. The way some aspies have been talking about NTs is downright scary to me. I see a repeated pattern of some aspies elevating themselves as superior human beings morally and degrading NTs to varying degrees which is exactly the kind of thinking that leads to making violence against them seem acceptable. I find this scenerio very believable after reading some things like that and I'm sincerely concerned about what it could lead to.