The smoothie question

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He didn't care about the cup, but he still intended to obtain it because he knew about the cup when he ordered the drink.

Well in my opinion there is a huge problem with this test. It is implied that the Mega-size smoothie is the biggest size they have, but it is not stated whether or not this actually is the biggest size they have available. It is clear that Joe intends to get the biggest size, in both cases, but it is not clear if that is actually what he received.

I passed.

There's been discussion on this topic already, here's the related scientific paper:
The Concept of Intentional Action in Asperger Syndrome / Tiziana Zalla & Edouard Machery

Thread: http://www.wrongplanet.net/postxf173529-0-75.html

No, he says himself that he doesn't care about the cup. He would have bought the large smoothie whether it came with the cup or not. She gave him the cup because that is how the smoothie was served up on that day, but he didn't intend to get the cup at all. Saying he intended to get the cup is like saying I intended to get junk mail this morning because I signed up for something completely different last week and ended up on someone's junk mail list as a result.

The junk mail would be accidental, not intentional.

Again, I agree, I just said that in my previous post, but that doesn't mean he didn't intend to obtain it (and therefore obtain his drink) when he agreed to buy the drink knowing it came with the cup. Whether or not he cares about the cup is irrelevant, the fact is that he knew the drink would come in the cup and he then ordered the drink.

Do you intend to inhale carbon dioxide when you breathe?

No, if you were not told about the junk mail, it would be accidental, but if you signed up to something and they told you that they'd send you junk mail as a result, that would be intentional. Likewise, the guy ordering the drink was told about the cup before he ordered his drink.

(answered in a separate post because you added this edit as I was typing up my last reply)

Yes, because I know it's in the air and I keep breathing anyway.

No, you don't, as the purpose of breathing is to remove carbon dioxide from your body and replace it with oxygen. You do not intend to breathe in the small amount of carbon dioxide in the air, it is simply an irrelevant side effect.

Dude, you have to breathe, otherwise you would turn all sorts of funny colours and pass out or expire!

I don't want to breathe in carbon dioxide, but that doesn't meant I don't intend to do it by breathing air I know contains it.

So if you are walking and trip over a paving slab because it was not laid down properly, does that mean you intended to do it just because you were walking that way?

You intended to breathe in Oxygen, you just happened to breathe in CO2 because it was there.

If you knew that the slab would trip you up in advance, then yes. It's all about considering all the factors before making a decision. Obviously, if you don't know about a side effect before you do something, that's not intentional, but you know something will happen as a result of you taking an action and you take that action anyway, that's intention.

But his intent is to get the drink. All poor joe wants is a drink. He is neither concerned with with the cup or dollar, he just wants his drink. The only real intention on his part is to get his drink.

And joe did not know about the cup when he had already decided (or intended) to get the drink, so therefore he did not go into the shop intending to get the cup. He only intended to get the drink.

Another question:

If someone pushes someone else and the person who was pushed bumps into you as a result of being pushed by the other person, did that person intend to bump into you or was it accidental?

Sometimes things happen as a consequence of a specific course of actions, but those consequences may not have been intentional at all. They were merely a side effect. It's the same with the cup. Joe was not thinking about the cup even though he knew about it and his intention was not to get the cup, but the drink.

Now if he was a cup collector and he went into the shop to get a drink just to get the cup, then his getting the cup would have been intended.

Last edited by bumble on 30 Nov 2011, 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

Yes, intention to carry out the action, not intention to cause the side effect of that action to happen.

You intentionally breathe air that you know contains carbon dioxide, but my question specifically asks whether you intentionally inhale carbon dioxide. How can you intend to acquire something that you simultaneously intend to get rid of?

He was told that the cup would come with the drink, then he ordered it anyway. He didn't care about the cup, but he still intended to get it with the drink as a result.

If someone bumps into me after being pushed by someone else, obviously that's accidental; they didn't know they were about to be pushed, did they?