Difference between PDD-NOS and Asperger's Syndrome

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Raziel
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27 Jan 2013, 11:44 am

DVCal wrote:
Raziel wrote:
DVCal wrote:
Chloe33 wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
marshall wrote:
DuneyBlues wrote:
They have lower IQs and are considered moderate functioning.

Nope. I'm diagnosed PDD-NOS and have above average IQ.


IQ doesn't factor into it anyway. You can have low IQ and still be PDD-NOS

All it means is that you have just enough Autistic symptoms to qualify as being "barely" on the spectrum, but not enough symtoms to qualify for a full Autism DX or a DX for any other ASD. It won't exist anymore when DSM-V comes in to affect in 2013. It'll be absorbed into Autistic Spectrum Disorder, but low on the severity scale.


This is true^ Dr Gail Saltz was saying this in an interview on the Today Show
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/ ... 1#50055301


She didn't say that at all, because it isn't true. IQ is in fact a factor, and low IQ is the biggest reason for a PDDNOS diagnosis.


This is because most ppl who don't fullfill enough diagnostic criteria of ASD are not in need of an autism diagnosis and are refered to as being BAP. But this is different with ppl with lower IQ, who have more trouble finding coping mechanisms that work for them ans so end up more often with the label PDD-NOS.


There are many who fit all of the requirements for AS and Autism but were too cognitively impaired, these people are diagnosed with PDDNOS.


Yes, because they didn't fit in the diagnostic criteria for Asperger's, so you can't diagnose them with that.
You have to meet all the diagnostic criteria that are nececerry to diagnose Asperger's, also the part with the IQ.


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27 Jan 2013, 1:00 pm

Raziel wrote:
DVCal wrote:
Raziel wrote:
DVCal wrote:
Raziel wrote:
I was dx with HFA years ago, but I was "right on the edge" of the diagnosis.
As a child I was classic autistic actually, didn't talked and so on and I still have trouble with routines, overload and all that, but not that much social anymore (still a bit). So I asume the right diagnosis for me is PDD-NOS, but in my country it's not realy a typical diagnosis. For most shrinks either you have ASD or you don't.
Also when I did the AQ for the diagnosis I got 32 points, I was much younger then. But now I just get 26 points.

So my ASD got better, but my mood got worse over the years. 8O

How it is already mentioned, PDD-NOS just means that you don't fullfill all diagnostic criteria, but those whom you fullfill are still strong enough for a diagnosis. So there is a spectrum from BAP (broad autism phenotype) over to PDD-NOS and to fullblown ASD.


This is simply incorrect. The spectrum does not work like that. around half of people diagnosed with PDDNOS full fill all of the requirements for ASD, but they have MORE symptoms so they are diagnosed with PDDNOS.


I just can think of McDD were this is the case and also often dx as PDD-NOS
Also when the development of autism is "atypical", but then you don't meet the dx criteria for the onset.
Other than that it means that you don't fullfill enough diagnostic criteria. If I'm wrong again, please give me a link to a website.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?Db=p ... d_RVDocSum

The first group 24% meets all of the requirements for Asperger,but they are too cognitively impaired to be diagnosed with Aspergers.

The second group 24% is a mixed bag, they have all symptoms of Autism,but their onset is either too late, they are too young for a proper diagnosis, or they are impaired cognitively beyond what even classical autism allows.

The third group 52% include people who meet all of the requirements for classical autism, which includes speech delay, and cognitive impairment, but lack repetitive behaviors.


"In terms of level of functioning measures, the PDD-NOS children had scores that were between those of the children with autism and those of the children with AS. In contrast, the PDD-NOS group had fewer autistic symptoms, especially repetitive stereotyped behaviors, than both the autism and AS groups (chi2 = 11.06, p =.004). Children with PDD-NOS could be placed into one of three subgroups: a high-functioning group (24%) who resembled AS but had transient language delay or mild cognitive impairment; a subgroup resembling autism (24%) but who had late age of onset or too severe cognitive delays or were too young to potentially meet the full diagnostic criteria for autism; and a group (52%) not fulfilling the criteria for autism because of fewer stereotyped and repetitive behaviors."

Yes, a lack of diagnostic criteria. Because they don't met them enough diagnostic criteria. That's PDD-NOS.
What else are you trying to say?
I mean, that was clear from the beginning...


Just FYI, language delay and cognitive impairment are NOT the same thing, necessarily. Also, there is another group not mentioned: people who meet the criteria for AS but with mild/no repetitive stereotyped movements. Some of these, like myself, ALSO had a language delay WITHOUT cognitive impairment. But this is not necessary for a PDD-NOS diagnosis for what is essentially "mild Aspergers" or Aspergers without the intense interests and rocking/hand-flapping.



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27 Jan 2013, 1:13 pm

Noetic wrote:
alan78 wrote:
Is it possible to be on the autistic spectrum without displaying repetitive behaviour? I feel i have severe problems when it comes to social interaction and communication, but i don't really have any of the repetitive behaviour.

Yes, although by far not everyone who is a loner, shy, socially anxious, lacks empathy or is otherwise socially inept is automatically on the spectrum.

Also, you may think you don't fit some criteria but people who know you well may disagree, for example some people don't think they are routine oriented or have repetitive behaviours or interests or physical stims, but they may well have them and not NOTICE.


Yes, professionals who know their stuff will look for things like flat effect, speaking without prosody, and lack of responsiveness. Those are probably the only things that will show up with some regularity in the doctor's office. Physical stims and stereotyped interests are not necessary, although it helps if you had them as a child. My mother insists I currently have both of these: but I couldn't think of any of them in the doctor's office so was diagnosed without them.

There are NT loners who are quite similar, but most of them blew their brains out on drugs. That's why a full childhood history is important.



Raziel
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27 Jan 2013, 1:21 pm

Tyri0n wrote:
Noetic wrote:
alan78 wrote:
Is it possible to be on the autistic spectrum without displaying repetitive behaviour? I feel i have severe problems when it comes to social interaction and communication, but i don't really have any of the repetitive behaviour.

Yes, although by far not everyone who is a loner, shy, socially anxious, lacks empathy or is otherwise socially inept is automatically on the spectrum.

Also, you may think you don't fit some criteria but people who know you well may disagree, for example some people don't think they are routine oriented or have repetitive behaviours or interests or physical stims, but they may well have them and not NOTICE.


Yes, professionals who know their stuff will look for things like flat effect, speaking without prosody, and lack of responsiveness. Those are probably the only things that will show up with some regularity in the doctor's office. Physical stims and stereotyped interests are not necessary, although it helps if you had them as a child. My mother insists I currently have both of these: but I couldn't think of any of them in the doctor's office so was diagnosed without them.

There are NT loners who are quite similar, but most of them blew their brains out on drugs. That's why a full childhood history is important.


I couldn't think of any routines while getting dx either, so the shrink talked to my mom and she described, that I've been even extremly routinized as a child, but I never noticed. 8O
I just started, some years ago, to notice my routines, before I NEVER noticed them.


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27 Jan 2013, 1:39 pm

whirlingmind wrote:
From what I have read, PDD-NOS is also used to diagnose those who are clearly AS but for one reason or another cannot provide confirmation of their childhood development (parents dead or whatever), so they can't meet the criteria for AS where it states that there must be evidence of it from childhood (even if they did, they just can't prove it, so even if they remember lots of relevant facts, if it can't be verified by someone who knew them as a child).


DVCal wrote:
I don't know why so many on here cling to this false idea that PDDNOS only refers to people who lacked enough symptoms for ASD diagnosis. This is simply wrong, and spreading this false idea does no good.


All these are true.



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27 Jan 2013, 1:43 pm

Chloe33 wrote:
MrXxx wrote:
marshall wrote:
DuneyBlues wrote:
They have lower IQs and are considered moderate functioning.

Nope. I'm diagnosed PDD-NOS and have above average IQ.


IQ doesn't factor into it anyway. You can have low IQ and still be PDD-NOS

All it means is that you have just enough Autistic symptoms to qualify as being "barely" on the spectrum, but not enough symtoms to qualify for a full Autism DX or a DX for any other ASD. It won't exist anymore when DSM-V comes in to affect in 2013. It'll be absorbed into Autistic Spectrum Disorder, but low on the severity scale.


This is true^ Dr Gail Saltz was saying this in an interview on the Today Show
http://video.today.msnbc.msn.com/today/ ... 1#50055301

She talked about Asperger's only (AFAIK).



xile123
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06 Oct 2016, 10:11 pm

the only difference is that pdd-nos is like Asperger syndrome but with a language and/or cognitive delay.



alien91
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22 Oct 2016, 9:19 am

I was diagnosed with PDD-NOS and I am not cognitively impaired, nor did I have a speech delay. The doctor who diagnosed me told me that he diagnosed me with PDD-NOS because my aspie/autistic symptoms are very mild and i'm high functioning.



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22 Oct 2016, 10:47 am

whirlingmind wrote:
From what I have read, PDD-NOS is also used to diagnose those who are clearly AS but for one reason or another cannot provide confirmation of their childhood development (parents dead or whatever), so they can't meet the criteria for AS where it states that there must be evidence of it from childhood (even if they did, they just can't prove it, so even if they remember lots of relevant facts, if it can't be verified by someone who knew them as a child).


What if there is no evidence in childhood development ( my mum cant remember and I personaly cant remember anything of real relevance ) , is that possibly BAP , although as Im in the UK I dont think its a recognised condition , I think it is regarded as over-medicalization of personality traits.


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22 Oct 2016, 2:02 pm

SaveFerris wrote:
whirlingmind wrote:
From what I have read, PDD-NOS is also used to diagnose those who are clearly AS but for one reason or another cannot provide confirmation of their childhood development (parents dead or whatever), so they can't meet the criteria for AS where it states that there must be evidence of it from childhood (even if they did, they just can't prove it, so even if they remember lots of relevant facts, if it can't be verified by someone who knew them as a child).


What if there is no evidence in childhood development ( my mum cant remember and I personaly cant remember anything of real relevance ) , is that possibly BAP , although as Im in the UK I dont think its a recognised condition , I think it is regarded as over-medicalization of personality traits.



I have heard of cases like that where someone doesn't fit autism until they are older. But I have never heard of such thing online from any articles or from any experts or in any books. Only from people online and I assume they were speaking from personal experience. Plus I believe it's listed in the new ASD criteria when it says how symptoms must be present in early childhood unless social demands goes beyond whatever it said in the criteria. I don't remember the wording.


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16 Nov 2017, 4:53 pm

I just wanted to necro this thread as I'm interested in this topic.

DuneyBlues did bring up the point that individuals with PDD-NOS have issues with functioning independently, and have lower IQ's; although this isn't always the case, as I've known a fair few people who have PDD-NOS, who have normal intelligence (albeit, they are still slower learners), and normal, or even great social skills, but still have other traits like co-morbid conditions like ADD, dyslexia, or slight sensory issues.

In my own case, my dad has some very minor autistic traits like slight stimming and minor eye contact issues, but doesn't have restricted and repetitive interests as far as I can tell, and he also has normal intelligence and social skills; in turn, I have inherited his normal intelligence and social skills, but developed those restricted and repetitive interests along with it. My mother does not have any autistic traits whatsoever, and my sister also has none. I guess what I'm try to say is, if PDD-NOS occurs in a single sibling, but not the other, it would likely be quite mild providing the parent has normal intelligence and social skills.

http://autism.lovetoknow.com/What_Is_th ... nd_PDD-NOS

The article states that people with PDD-NOS have language delay, but this isn't necessarily true, as I had no language delay, although, with that being said, I've always had much trouble with fully expressing myself and describing things in depth.


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