Why do many Westerners...

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Somewhat true, but note that this is essentially cosmetic: In my "History of the Americas" class, for example, out of a whole school year of class, we only spent a week on Mexico, a single day on all the Precolumbian Civilizations combined, as if they were one single people, and only about a month total on the rest of history outside what is in present times the USA. We spent 4 days talking about Lewis and Clark, a fortnight about the US Civil War, a week on that stupid idea of American Exceptionalism...this was in my junior year in high school less than 3 years ago in California, by the way, and I doubt Texas or New York is any better. And I was only offered the alternative history class of European History; no West African History, no Chinese History and no Indian History.

And I never said racial theory was taught in US public schools: I said that they teach mostly sugarcoated Western History and sugarcoated US history. I know for a fact that, as I can read the Arabic Script, my senior year history textbook printed all pictures with any text in the Arabic Script left to right as opposed to the appropriate right to left in all the history textbooks I inspected, that they sent me to detention for writing a school paper that was supposed to be on an independently researched topic of my choice, on the Inka Economy, where I stated that the Spanish committed genocide against the fallen Inka Empire's peoples. They said the reason for this was insubordination and "hate speech"; why can I not hate Francisco Pizarro but everyone is expected to hate Hitler (who I of course also hate) when they were both genocidal monsters? On the other hand, they shoved mindless tolerance down our throats; I see the tolerance taught in schools in the USA as a piece of PC rubbish that forbids criticism for things as diverse as Islamic sexism or Western colonial evils in the ridiculous name of universal equality of all cultures and ethical relativism.

In fact, I think modern Germany's treatment of Nazism and Holocaust denial is a great model for the USA: We should criminalize the denial of the Transatlantic Slave Genocide as well as criminalize the Genocide of the Indigenous Peoples of the Americas and the non-critical or comical saying of the phrase "the South will rise again" at the very least.

Ah, yes - the "it's all whitey's fault!" doctrine.

Sounds trendy!

Very much so among lefties.

I mean, it's of course true that a very big amount of U.S. Americans is insane, extremistic and as conservative as canned peaches but... Neo-moralism ala Lisa Simpson is just the other extreme.
But probably I just can't imagine living in such a country. maybe a rational thinking person in the U.S. is forced to decide for the other extremistic side that may be total hypocrisy and sanctimony but at least doesn't do as much damage. Though I don't think it would be the right way, since it doesn't lead to understanding but only provokes. It provokes even liberal minded persons like me and you and suddenly we would become the opposition.
No, I think I understand it better now. I have to apologize to the thread starter since though it seemed to make no sense what he said he is one of the "good" ones...

Why is it that when I attempt to start a civil discussion about the denial of Western atrocities, which are as historically factual as the Holocaust, so many people insist on continuing to deny realities? And why, even when I plainly state that the Mongols, Muslims and Aztecs were as savage towards their conquered peoples as the Western Colonial Powers were, you still indirectly accuse me of reverse racism? I hate racism and I hate the myth of race so do not play the race card on me because it is ridiculously futile and I am attempting to treat you with respect. I admit some of my ancestors practiced human sacrifice and some of my ancestors were slavemasters and fought in the CSA for the right to enslave some of my other ancestors, yet many, perhaps most but certainly not all, others here deny or minimize every single fault of their ancestors and their peoples despite overwhelming scientific evidence.

If you are so convinced that you are right about history and how I am some sort of guiltmonger for bringing up historical facts that happen to make you feel uncomfortable, grow up and stop making sarcastic remarks and have a civil debate with me if you want to or admit to being in denial of historical facts.

No one is denying anything. They just don't give a sh*t.

ruveyn

That wasn't even that sarcastical. It's true, I don't care about historical facts. but I just didn't understand your intention of bringing them up here before. and I didn't understand why it should be so important to you. And then I thought about the fact that you live in a society that's totally different from mine though both are called "western". And that you might not only be nagging about some irrelevant historical facts but fighting against native glorifying conservative patriots. And I truly believe that they are insane because their kind of thinking is destructive and totally irrational. my apologize was serious.
Once again history is something that has once existed but is forever gone. But injustice insanity and patriotism are present and I totally agree with you that those things should vanish.
Americans should not glorify their country for fueling patriotism. And if you think that you can convince them by listing some historical facts that's fine. I only misunderstood your intention.

I think it's plain ridiculous that you were penalized for "hate speech" regarding your high school paper.
As for the limitations that public schools put on the teaching of anything other than American history (excluding much of indigenous people's history), all I can say is, there will be a wider spectrum of history classes in college.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer

So what. Yeah, white people were evil to people of color, yes, but guess what, people of color were evil to other people of color too. Racism sucks and so does white guilt.

Yes, why not have a European Empire instead?

Come on... altogether now:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYp7LcktI9s[/youtube]

There's nothing wrong with patriotism, nothing at all. It is merely a love of one's area, one's people and one's homeland. Nor is there really a problem with some forms of nationalism - especially civic, and occasionally ethnic (depending on the country). What is wrong is when it is misused to bully other people and attack minorities purely for existing.



Indeed. Especially when that white guilt is exploited by present day non-white people in order to extract undeserved preferential treatment that they would otherwise not receive.

I also think that most people think that this is "beating on a dead horse". The subject has been discussed multiple times to the point of nausea. There's also nothing glorifying in such a gloom period of most of humanity, hence why most people try or want to avoid it.

Exactly. It's like going on about the period of Nazi Germany to modern-day Germans. They're sick to the back teeth of hearing about it. What good can come of going over it again?



But it also had positive aspects as well. There were some success stories and in many former colonies we left a very stable government behind.

Unless you (the OP) is trying to get modern-day Westerners to flagellate themselves over the coals for something they had nothing to do with and were born perhaps centuries after the events took place, what's the point of this discussion?

People - of many races - were absolutely horrible to one another in centuries gone by (and still are in parts of the world). In the West, we're generally more civilised. What more need be said?

Last edited by Tequila on 27 Dec 2011, 3:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Why love one's people for no good reason; why should Luxembourgians be as proud of their heritage as Greeks, Indians or Chinese? Nationalism leads to mindless support for anything that is good for your nation, not what is good in absolute terms.

I tell you what. Let me turn that on its head - why shouldn't they? Luxembourg, and Liechtenstein and countries of their ilk have much to be proud of.