27 Dec 2011, 3:54 pm
Tequila wrote:
awes wrote:
But injustice insanity and patriotism are present and I totally agree with you that those things should vanish.
Yes, why not have a European Empire instead?
Come on... altogether now:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYp7LcktI9s[/youtube]
There's nothing wrong with patriotism, nothing at all. It is merely a love of one's area, one's people and one's homeland. Nor is there really a problem with some forms of nationalism - especially civic, and occasionally ethnic (depending on the country). What is wrong is when it is misused to bully other people and attack minorities purely for existing.
Quote:
Racism sucks and so does white guilt.
Indeed. Especially when that white guilt is exploited by present day non-white people in order to extract undeserved preferential treatment that they would otherwise not receive.
Patriotism is irrational and always leads to irrational thinking and acting. Today everybody should be a cosmopolite. Everybody should act in the whole worlds interest and not only in the interest of one country. It's no crime to feel very comfortable in one single country but the swiss way is extremely egoistical and coward like. You should be able to feel as close to a spanish or thai person as you feel it for an englishman no matter how great the distance may be. You may say that you won't ever have to interact with a thai person so why should you feel close to him or her. But then ask yourself the same about a person from (for example) Liverpool if you live in Lancashire. If you live in a small village where everybody knows everybody that's something different. But you actually share nothing but your language with people who don't live in this village. If you are proud of something that somebody did who out of a matter of fortune lived inside some arbitrarily affixed borders (ok, in your case it's the sea but who cares) you are automatically comparing "your country" to other countries. That might have been productive in the medieval age since the challenge lead to progress but today it's totally destructive. Don't be irritated to much from what is written in your passport, you are part of the whole world and not property of the queen. You can live anywhere you like, you can talk with anyone you want to talk, you can love anyone you want to love so you are potentially as close to anybody else as you are to people of the UK outside of the block or district in Lancashire where you live. The only additional border is the language, but since you are so privileged to have your mothers language as the worlds main language you shouldn't complain at all^^ In theory you can feel as proud of Albert Einstein, Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart and Yundi Li as you feel for Isaac Newton or The Beatles. You should feel close to people who share your kind of thinking, who you think are good for this world, whose thoughts you can understand even if their answers belong to an Arabian or Asian question and not to a European one. And much more, the only person you should fight for is yourself, the only ideal you should live for is your own ideal.
It's so funny if you think of this affinity thing, in international questions an (for example) spanish man considers himself as European, in European questions he considers himself as spanish, in national questions he considers himself as Madrilenian, everybody else is stupid farmers, in questions about the city he considers himself as person of the elite district, in his district he considers himself as part of the well known Sanchez family and in questions between the family he is fan of "Real Madrid" and his wife is fan of "Atletico Madrid" so they never talk about soccer when they are together because they always start to quarrel awfully. Additionally we are of course internationally parted by religion too.
Pride is an awful thing.
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27 Dec 2011, 3:55 pm
27 Dec 2011, 4:24 pm
27 Dec 2011, 4:51 pm
27 Dec 2011, 4:59 pm
27 Dec 2011, 5:41 pm
Tequila wrote:
awes wrote:
Patriotism is irrational and always leads to irrational thinking and acting. Today everybody should be a cosmopolite.
What a load of authoritarian multicultural codswallop. How dare you tell me - or anyone, actually - what we should think and what we should feel. It is exactly these sorts of sentiments, forced upon us by political elites, that will lead to an increase of nationalism - and not necessarily the peaceful, cuddly kind - rather than what you're trying to argue for.
What, culturally, do I have in common with Thais? I have never been to Thailand, don't know any Thais, don't have any knowledge of Thai culture, don't have Thai family, don't in fact know much about anything of Thailand. I might have a bit in common with some Spaniards - we live on the same continent and I travel to Spain once a year - but I have no Spanish relatives, although I don't mind the culture but I have more in common with people from Britain and Ireland due to our shared values, our food, and so on.
I have a shared culture, shared values, shared food and often a similar outlook with many people from my homeland (and the wider Anglophone community). There's no shame in feeling an affinity with people that share your own cultural background.
Of course I put myself from but everyone needs a sense of belonging. One's nation (or whatever nation one claims loyalty to) is like an extension of one's family. You put yourself and family first, then you try to do right by the people you live near to. After that comes the country.
Quote:
In the 19th century, nationalism was considered a liberal notion, opposed by conservatives.
This is why civic - or liberal - nationalism is so important to many strains of liberal thought.
I actually don't think that a man is the product of his culture and food.
Much more I don't respect a man for his culture and food. I respect him for his intelligence and ability of thinking free from any values.
To me culture is totally worthless, maybe not that worthless but replaceable. Today it is nothing but pastime, it's for the amusement of a citzenship. Everybody is considering it as that extremely precious not realizing that people from other places of the world live in the same quality with a totally different culture. Modern minded people aren't even that imprinted by a culture anymore. City people automatically conform to the new given opportunities and are pretty similar in each city around the world. (of course there are wide spectrums of characters but they are the same in each city). I'm also not interested in Mexican farmers or plebs, as I'm not interested in farmers and plebs of my country. But there might be many people around the world who share my opinion. I don't believe that the greatest part of them would be Austrian just because they share the food or values with me (which don't even exist anymore in the minds of people who are younger than 40).
I'm certainly not a hippie, leftie or some kind of eco fag but that's another example. Hippies lefties and eco fags exist in each modern society, independent from the culture that has been there before globalisation began to recreate it. Those veggie douchebags can also be found everywhere. Just like conservatives, each kinds of extremistics, whatever. How can you believe that a man is the product of his so called culture in our times? ^^
Haven't you got any ideal, something that you consider as the right way? You can be pretty sure to find more people who share a similar ideal in the whole world than just in the UK.
I don't tell you what you should think or feel. I just tell you that to me, it seems that it's only what you feel that influences your thoughts, it appears to be irrational and according to that crazy. It's only not considered as crazy because so many people, who have been influenced by their parents and school, think the same. It makes just as much sense as eating human meat, it might be very healthy since it contains exactly what a human needs, right? Well, my second theory seems to make even more sense. I'll go cooking my dads penis now, maybe after eating it mine would become bigger.
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27 Dec 2011, 8:19 pm
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