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What is the primary reason for disapproval of homosexuality?
Religion 36%  36%  [ 40 ]
Fear that homosexuals will be attracted to YOU 3%  3%  [ 3 ]
Fear of disintegrating gender roles 10%  10%  [ 11 ]
Male fear of gay anal rape 5%  5%  [ 5 ]
Homosexual intercourse cannot produce children 4%  4%  [ 4 ]
It just icks people out 18%  18%  [ 20 ]
It defies social norms 10%  10%  [ 11 ]
Other (please explain below) 15%  15%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 110

The_Perfect_Storm
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11 Jan 2012, 12:26 am

blauSamstag wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Bun wrote:
Yeah, just saying, they might be afraid of people who *may* be attracted to them after it had happened.


well, then like a raped woman, they need to come to grips with the reality that rapists are in the minority.


I don't think rape victims can just 'come to grips'.


I propose that the majority of them do.


And?



blauSamstag
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11 Jan 2012, 12:42 am

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Bun wrote:
Yeah, just saying, they might be afraid of people who *may* be attracted to them after it had happened.


well, then like a raped woman, they need to come to grips with the reality that rapists are in the minority.


I don't think rape victims can just 'come to grips'.


I propose that the majority of them do.


And?


I didn't say it to be offensive.

What I'm saying is that loathing all male homosexuals because your gym coach felt you up in the 7th grade is an irrational reaction.

Firstly, there's a good chance that the gym coach was not in fact gay. Most kiddie molesters aren't. The psychology is complex, but the facts are the facts.

Secondly, even if their gym coach was gay, the overwhelming majority of gay men are not interested in groping unwilling men.

The shrill women's rights people assert that 25% of women have suffered at least an attempted rape. Based on this i propose that most women who have been raped realize that the overwhelming majority of men are not rapists.



The_Perfect_Storm
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11 Jan 2012, 3:35 am

blauSamstag wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Bun wrote:
Yeah, just saying, they might be afraid of people who *may* be attracted to them after it had happened.


well, then like a raped woman, they need to come to grips with the reality that rapists are in the minority.


I don't think rape victims can just 'come to grips'.


I propose that the majority of them do.


And?


I didn't say it to be offensive.

What I'm saying is that loathing all male homosexuals because your gym coach felt you up in the 7th grade is an irrational reaction.

Firstly, there's a good chance that the gym coach was not in fact gay. Most kiddie molesters aren't. The psychology is complex, but the facts are the facts.

Secondly, even if their gym coach was gay, the overwhelming majority of gay men are not interested in groping unwilling men.

The shrill women's rights people assert that 25% of women have suffered at least an attempted rape. Based on this i propose that most women who have been raped realize that the overwhelming majority of men are not rapists.


Did anyone say that homophobes were molested as a child by their gym teachers?

And until I see some real statistics I am not willing to believe that one in four women have been attacked. Not that it matters, since we aren't talking about women claiming that all men are rapists.

All along I thought you were claiming that rape victims aren't allowed to be afraid of men and sex. They have every right to be. Even if a lot of men aren't rapists.



Bun
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11 Jan 2012, 9:42 am

blauSamstag wrote:
Bun wrote:
Yeah, just saying, they might be afraid of people who *may* be attracted to them after it had happened.


well, then like a raped woman, they need to come to grips with the reality that rapists are in the minority.

Well, yes, it's for their best... But not everyone 'gets over it' to the same degree, or at all.



WilliamWDelaney
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11 Jan 2012, 5:45 pm

pandabear wrote:
I think that most civilized people disapprove of rape.
Umm...



NextFact
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11 Jan 2012, 5:53 pm

People dissaprove of homosexuality because they've been conditioned to disapprove of it, much in the same way a 10 year old may be conditioned to believe mankind was doomed because Eve ate an apple, or a soldier that becomes a serial killer because that's what he was conditioned to do. We shouldn't ignore our environmental and cultural influences as reasons for much of the problems our society has today, I think a lot of people are victims of culture and their environment, and not necessarily did they have free choice in the beliefs that were imposed upon them. I know how hard it is to get over longtime cultural beliefs and prejudices, people that were conditioned to hate homosexuals need help.



blauSamstag
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12 Jan 2012, 8:53 am

The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
The_Perfect_Storm wrote:
blauSamstag wrote:
Bun wrote:
Yeah, just saying, they might be afraid of people who *may* be attracted to them after it had happened.


well, then like a raped woman, they need to come to grips with the reality that rapists are in the minority.


I don't think rape victims can just 'come to grips'.


I propose that the majority of them do.


And?


I didn't say it to be offensive.

What I'm saying is that loathing all male homosexuals because your gym coach felt you up in the 7th grade is an irrational reaction.

Firstly, there's a good chance that the gym coach was not in fact gay. Most kiddie molesters aren't. The psychology is complex, but the facts are the facts.

Secondly, even if their gym coach was gay, the overwhelming majority of gay men are not interested in groping unwilling men.

The shrill women's rights people assert that 25% of women have suffered at least an attempted rape. Based on this i propose that most women who have been raped realize that the overwhelming majority of men are not rapists.


Did anyone say that homophobes were molested as a child by their gym teachers?


Sort of:

Bun wrote:
Or maybe they had had an non-consensual experience in their past.


Quote:
And until I see some real statistics I am not willing to believe that one in four women have been attacked. Not that it matters, since we aren't talking about women claiming that all men are rapists.

All along I thought you were claiming that rape victims aren't allowed to be afraid of men and sex. They have every right to be. Even if a lot of men aren't rapists.


Yes, people have every right to be irrational in their private lives.



Kelspook
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12 Jan 2012, 11:48 am

NextFact wrote:
People dissaprove of homosexuality because they've been conditioned to disapprove of it, much in the same way a 10 year old may be conditioned to believe mankind was doomed because Eve ate an apple, or a soldier that becomes a serial killer because that's what he was conditioned to do. We shouldn't ignore our environmental and cultural influences as reasons for much of the problems our society has today, I think a lot of people are victims of culture and their environment, and not necessarily did they have free choice in the beliefs that were imposed upon them. I know how hard it is to get over longtime cultural beliefs and prejudices, people that were conditioned to hate homosexuals need help.


Nail on the head, right there.

If you're consistently told that something is evil while you're growing up, and that the acceptable response to those evil people is to publicly rant, rave and disaprove of them, (and/or smash them in the face with a wheel brace) that's what you'll do.

Hate spawns more hate. Tragic.



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04 Jul 2015, 8:25 pm

I have not read all 21 pages of posts so I may not be the first to suggest this, but allow me to suggest that it is perhaps neither a rational or irrational decision at all and not even a decision. Plausibly it may be a deeply ingrained instinct. If you have read anything about Gentic Sexual Attraction (AKA GSA) you know that GSA is an hypothesized, some say proven, sexual attraction for others with largely common genes. It is counterbalanced with the Incest aversion for children raised together. GSA is the reason for simpler more primitive unrelated populations to show a prevalence of cousin marriages and GSA gives rise to formation of Clans and Tribes and eventually nations. Those populations with similar genetic traits tend to gather together and compete with those with les similar genetic traits. The larger the group possessing moderate genetic similarity the more competitive and survivable it is. It is claimed to give a survival advantage for groups, (as opposed to survival of individuals).

If we compare this phenomennon with wide spread rejection of homosexuality we can see that heterosexual predomenance within a group allows it to out-breed competitive groups. Not all that much is known about genetics and instinct but too much diversity can weaken a group, and groups especially those that can act in unity are more survivable!


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22 Nov 2018, 5:54 pm

I will risk proposing a hypothesis. I propose that it is a survival mechanism for the clan or tribe. I presume that it will be regarded as reasonable that if neither side has a massive advantage in technology or numbers that in combat, maleness has a survival advantage over femalness not ignoring that in hard times environmentally Femaleness can have inherent advantage over maleness. E.G. they tend to have proportionate a larger body fat reserve and the clan or tribe tends to afford them greater protection as they are necessary to produce future generations etc. In harsh inter-clan rivalry competition for limited resources men who sexually prefer men may be perceived as women when it comes to inclination to engage in combat and hence less likely to function effectively in combat over resources and be less able to have "the back" of their fellow wariors" Having lots of women who can reproduce is also advantageous to the clan. But having "women" who are functioning as women grants no such survival advantage to the clan. Accordingly a clan with lots of male homosexuals is plausibly at a survival disadvantage. arguments of a similar nature can also be plausible where the number of members who take on the male roles don't make the best wariors. The famous anthropologist Margret Mead who studied semi-isolated tribes in the south seas islands saw some trends along these lines. Perhaps her observations of the Arapesh (aka the "Gentle Arapesh" Suggested themes along these lines in that The Arapesh males were rather mild (one might say effeminate) were pushed off the good land to poorer and remote territories were a dwindling tribe compared to their neigboring tribes and clans. Such a cultural based difference led to a clan survival disadvantage and more "aggressive male dominated" better fighters giving them an advantage over their neighbors and the result was a cultural evolution effect that favored cultures that ganed an advantage where "Men were men, and stole the best resources and the women produced the next generation. In other words not regarding how much we seek a peaceful society, depending on resource availability a culture with homosexual tendencies may not have the best competitive edge and survivability. It would be a cultural norm to favor heterosexuality and suppress homosexuality for simple survivability. Effeminancy of males may be a culturally based survival disadvantage and societies that suppress non reproductive unions may reap an advantage and simply out populate their rivalsl. by breeding a more survable society.

If that is the case..... A technological society where survival is less phisiologically based and more intellectually based might just reverse that trend. If one wished to examine where such a thing might go, I can suggest that as a starter one who likes science fiction might examine the book The Left Hand of Darkness By Ursala LaGuin (not sure of the spelling there) I found it to be a good read. It has been a few decades since I was reading Margaretn Mead's research (not sure about the name spelling there either.


So then the question arises what would we title such a theory of cause???


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23 Nov 2018, 6:11 pm

It should be noted that since this thread was created (in 2011), many countries, including the U.S., have legalized same-sex marriage or civil unions.

I am ok with this, though I don’t think verses in the Bible and Quran that condemn homosexuality should be considered hate speech.


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outlander
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26 Nov 2018, 6:22 pm

Tim_Tex wrote:
I don’t think verses in the Bible and Quran that condemn homosexuality should be considered hate speech.


Your position on this point may not be very popular with some, and indeed some may absolutely condemn your reasoning while others celebrate your route to that conclusion, but rather than put my two cents in, just yet. and skew the responses that ensue, I would first like to know your rationale for arriving at the above position.


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26 Nov 2018, 6:45 pm

I feel religion is the main reason for it (For me it is), but NOT for why it is seen as such a major thing in comparison to other things. I think that the modern split on it, with most people having very strong opinions on it is due to politics.


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26 Nov 2018, 7:17 pm

I feel it's many of these factors----it's really according to the individual.

I have nothing against homosexuality. I don't like actually seeing two guys kiss, though.



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26 Nov 2018, 7:28 pm

I can't begrudge 2 people finding love in this unloving world we humans have made for ourselves.



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26 Nov 2018, 7:39 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:

I have nothing against homosexuality. I don't like actually seeing two guys kiss, though.



I have no problem with seeing anyone kiss, whether it's two guys, two women, or a man and a woman. Any two people have found love and affection is alright with me.


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