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Who is responsible for the Holocaust?
Hitler and only Hitler 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Hitler + his minions only 9%  9%  [ 4 ]
All of the Nazis aside from Schindler and other righteous among the nations 22%  22%  [ 10 ]
A large portion of Europe's population 44%  44%  [ 20 ]
All European Christians 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
other 24%  24%  [ 11 ]
Total votes : 45

Kraichgauer
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01 Feb 2012, 12:14 pm

It should be mentioned, among those brave enough to protect others who were deemed to have been defective from euthanasia by the Nazis, was Dr. Hans Asperger, who had protected his "Little Professors" from certain death.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



LiberalJustice
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01 Feb 2012, 1:29 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
It should be mentioned, among those brave enough to protect others who were deemed to have been defective from euthanasia by the Nazis, was Dr. Hans Asperger, who had protected his "Little Professors" from certain death.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Are you sure this is true? I thought they (the Nazis) favored people with AS due to their inclination to routine and order.


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TheFerretHadToGo
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01 Feb 2012, 2:07 pm

LiberalJustice wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It should be mentioned, among those brave enough to protect others who were deemed to have been defective from euthanasia by the Nazis, was Dr. Hans Asperger, who had protected his "Little Professors" from certain death.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Are you sure this is true? I thought they (the Nazis) favored people with AS due to their inclination to routine and order.

They actually discussed extermination or at least sterilization of autistics and autistic psycopaths (what we call aspies today). Hans Asperger stood up for his "little professors" at least.
I don´t know why the Nazis never came to a verdict on the matter, it might have to do with that this was late in the war and they had far more pressing matters to attend to since they obviously were on the verge of defeat.



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01 Feb 2012, 2:50 pm

TheFerretHadToGo wrote:
LiberalJustice wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It should be mentioned, among those brave enough to protect others who were deemed to have been defective from euthanasia by the Nazis, was Dr. Hans Asperger, who had protected his "Little Professors" from certain death.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Are you sure this is true? I thought they (the Nazis) favored people with AS due to their inclination to routine and order.

They actually discussed extermination or at least sterilization of autistics and autistic psycopaths (what we call aspies today). Hans Asperger stood up for his "little professors" at least.
I don´t know why the Nazis never came to a verdict on the matter, it might have to do with that this was late in the war and they had far more pressing matters to attend to since they obviously were on the verge of defeat.


People with Asperger's Syndrome or High-Functioning Autism?


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Kraichgauer
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01 Feb 2012, 6:31 pm

LiberalJustice wrote:
TheFerretHadToGo wrote:
LiberalJustice wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
It should be mentioned, among those brave enough to protect others who were deemed to have been defective from euthanasia by the Nazis, was Dr. Hans Asperger, who had protected his "Little Professors" from certain death.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer


Are you sure this is true? I thought they (the Nazis) favored people with AS due to their inclination to routine and order.

They actually discussed extermination or at least sterilization of autistics and autistic psycopaths (what we call aspies today). Hans Asperger stood up for his "little professors" at least.
I don´t know why the Nazis never came to a verdict on the matter, it might have to do with that this was late in the war and they had far more pressing matters to attend to since they obviously were on the verge of defeat.


People with Asperger's Syndrome or High-Functioning Autism?


Yes, because we're the square pegs that don't fit into the round holes. It wasn't just a matter of order and routine with the Nazis, but also masses coming in wave after wave of conformity and lack of individuality - and that just isn't us. And it should be remembered, while we might be experts on a particular subject, I can speak to personal experience to how I'm a total moron in most others. And don't even expect me - or most other Aspies - to shoot straight (with the exception of Dox and Browning), or to do anything else that requires physical coordination.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



aspi-rant
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01 Feb 2012, 6:44 pm

the only thing responsible for the holocaust is the invention of the term "god" by ill-informed primitive humans.



Tequila
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01 Feb 2012, 6:54 pm

aspi-rant wrote:
the only thing responsible for the holocaust is the invention of the term "god" by ill-informed primitive humans.


Take the blinkers from your eyes and realise that people will hate and kill anyone that is different. Religion is just one of many excuses. Even when religion is thoroughly unpopular, other scapegoats may be found.



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01 Feb 2012, 6:55 pm

Tequila wrote:
aspi-rant wrote:
the only thing responsible for the holocaust is the invention of the term "god" by ill-informed primitive humans.


Take the blinkers from your eyes and realise that people will hate and kill anyone that is different. Religion is just one of many excuses. Even when religion is thoroughly unpopular, other scapegoats may be found.


This.

Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's age... humans will always have an excuse to kill other humans.


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aspi-rant
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01 Feb 2012, 7:20 pm

abacacus wrote:
Tequila wrote:
aspi-rant wrote:
the only thing responsible for the holocaust is the invention of the term "god" by ill-informed primitive humans.


Take the blinkers from your eyes and realise that people will hate and kill anyone that is different. Religion is just one of many excuses. Even when religion is thoroughly unpopular, other scapegoats may be found.


This.

Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's age... humans will always have an excuse to kill other humans.


the jews became "different" solely due to their beliefs, their religion and accompanying rules and laws.

the holocaust is all about the idea that jews were harmful. and to some… the belief that the jews were responsible for the death of another mythical "god"… named jesus.

other idiotic conflicts throughout history and in the future where humans slaughter each other may involve other arguments. but not this one. the holocaust is about gods. nothing else.



abacacus
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01 Feb 2012, 7:25 pm

aspi-rant wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Tequila wrote:
aspi-rant wrote:
the only thing responsible for the holocaust is the invention of the term "god" by ill-informed primitive humans.


Take the blinkers from your eyes and realise that people will hate and kill anyone that is different. Religion is just one of many excuses. Even when religion is thoroughly unpopular, other scapegoats may be found.


This.

Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's age... humans will always have an excuse to kill other humans.


the jews became "different" solely due to their beliefs, their religion and accompanying rules and laws.

the holocaust is all about the idea that jews were harmful. and to some… the belief that the jews were responsible for the death of another mythical "god"… named jesus.

other idiotic conflicts throughout history and in the future where humans slaughter each other may involve other arguments. but not this one. the holocaust is about gods. nothing else.


And of the course the homosexuals, gypsies, and mentally ill were also all Jewish?

The Jews were not the only victims of the holocaust.


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Tequila
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01 Feb 2012, 7:29 pm

abacacus wrote:
And of the course the homosexuals, gypsies, and mentally ill were also all Jewish?

The Jews were not the only victims of the holocaust.


And we're not even counting communists and Hitler's other political opponents either in that.



aspi-rant
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01 Feb 2012, 8:13 pm

abacacus wrote:
aspi-rant wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Tequila wrote:
aspi-rant wrote:
the only thing responsible for the holocaust is the invention of the term "god" by ill-informed primitive humans.


Take the blinkers from your eyes and realise that people will hate and kill anyone that is different. Religion is just one of many excuses. Even when religion is thoroughly unpopular, other scapegoats may be found.


This.

Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's age... humans will always have an excuse to kill other humans.


the jews became "different" solely due to their beliefs, their religion and accompanying rules and laws.

the holocaust is all about the idea that jews were harmful. and to some… the belief that the jews were responsible for the death of another mythical "god"… named jesus.

other idiotic conflicts throughout history and in the future where humans slaughter each other may involve other arguments. but not this one. the holocaust is about gods. nothing else.


And of the course the homosexuals, gypsies, and mentally ill were also all Jewish?

The Jews were not the only victims of the holocaust.


the holocaust was well on its way long before these other groups became included in the delusional cleansing process to become the master race.

so the holocaust is still started from one single angle… religion.



ruveyn
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01 Feb 2012, 8:21 pm

aspi-rant wrote:

so the holocaust is still started from one single angle… religion.


The idea was race, not religion.

ruveyn



Kraichgauer
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01 Feb 2012, 10:06 pm

aspi-rant wrote:
abacacus wrote:
aspi-rant wrote:
abacacus wrote:
Tequila wrote:
aspi-rant wrote:
the only thing responsible for the holocaust is the invention of the term "god" by ill-informed primitive humans.


Take the blinkers from your eyes and realise that people will hate and kill anyone that is different. Religion is just one of many excuses. Even when religion is thoroughly unpopular, other scapegoats may be found.


This.

Sometimes it's race, sometimes it's politics, sometimes it's age... humans will always have an excuse to kill other humans.


the jews became "different" solely due to their beliefs, their religion and accompanying rules and laws.

the holocaust is all about the idea that jews were harmful. and to some… the belief that the jews were responsible for the death of another mythical "god"… named jesus.

other idiotic conflicts throughout history and in the future where humans slaughter each other may involve other arguments. but not this one. the holocaust is about gods. nothing else.


And of the course the homosexuals, gypsies, and mentally ill were also all Jewish?

The Jews were not the only victims of the holocaust.


the holocaust was well on its way long before these other groups became included in the delusional cleansing process to become the master race.

so the holocaust is still started from one single angle… religion.


Homosexuals, socialists, the mentally ill, the handicapped, etc. were sent to camps even before the Jews had been. The fact of the matter is, almost all the Nazis, while having been born in Christian homes, were all lapsed Christians. In fact, they might use the writings of various Christian leaders to justify their position, but the fact remains, they held all religion in contempt. In fact, one former SS officer who later became a monk, told how all Christianity was to be eventually destroyed in the Reich. Nor should it be forgotten that it was Christian pastors, such as Dietrich Bonhoeffer and Martin Niemoller, who had payed heavily for their opposition to Hitler.

-Bill, otherwise known as Kraichgauer



Obres
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01 Feb 2012, 11:35 pm

Not "who", so much as "what": human nature. Specifically, our tendency to be able to convince ourselves of anything under group pressure. On the flip side, our tendency to conform to the group is part of what makes us a successful species.

Also, this question just doesn't seem complete without one of the options being "the Jews". I know you know there are people who would choose that as an option, so why isn't it up there?



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01 Feb 2012, 11:47 pm

I actually think the Nazi persecution of homosexuals is somewhat overstated. They put some pink triangles on their gay victims, but I don't think they ever planned to exterminate all gay people, I think a lot of high ranking Nazis were actually gay. I think the pink triangle thing was more of a way to humiliate and shame them for other crimes.

And their problem with Jews had little to do with their religion. It was because they are genetically different from other Europeans, it was racial. It's been proven that Jewish people, aside from converts of course, have a distinct genetic profile that is entirely distinct from other European people. That's not to say it isn't mixed in, but genetically speaking, one can almost always tell a Jew from a non-Jew if analysis is done.

Though I would argue deep down the Nazis were more against the 'Jewish spirit' so to speak than the genes themselves; that's why they did kill converts as well as born Jews and why Hitler actually did like one Jew, the doctor who tried to save his mother's life.