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Venerab1e1
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16 Feb 2012, 12:19 am

In my case I was diagnosed with schizophrenia first, then during my last visit with one of my three doctors my theropist suspected I may also have aspergers. Which if true, I would have had to have the aspergers first, then developed the schizophrenia later. Which brings me to my question, are aspies more likely to develop schizophrenia or am I just extremely unlucky for possibly having both.



thedaywalker
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16 Feb 2012, 5:01 am

i think there geneticaly linked



Bun
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16 Feb 2012, 5:06 am

Or you could be misdiagnosed. What symptoms do you have?


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Venerab1e1
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16 Feb 2012, 4:27 pm

Bun wrote:
Or you could be misdiagnosed. What symptoms do you have?


I have all of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia plus delusions. I wouldn't be shocked if I was misdiagnosed because that could all be explained by depression caused by aspergers. What do you think?



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16 Feb 2012, 6:39 pm

Traditionally, AS was considered to be a form of schizophrenia and I have seen many articles suggesting that aspies have an increased risk of developing it, although general consensus seems to be this is only marginal. Some more recent research though has suggested that they may in fact be genetic opposites. I think the jury is still out at the moment. Either way you would definitely be unlucky both statistically and in terms of living with the symptoms to have both conditions.

It is perfectly plausible of Bun to suggest you may have been misdiagnosed with either one. There is certainly some overlap of symptoms between the two. This can be further complicated by the fact that if you did indeed have AS, then living with some of the more negative consequences of this (or indeed any other major traumas or stress in your life) could well cause psychological consequences which could cause psychotic symptoms, paranoia or delusions similar to those seen in schizophrenia (these can occur in severe anxiety or depression for example). You could even have a completely different diagnosis such as AS + Bipolar (a common co-morbidity) or some form of personality disorder which better explains your symptoms.

I often wonder how valid some of these diagnostic labels are, given their subjective nature and just how difficult it becomes to accurately pinpoint the causes of people's problems as they age and accumulate life experiences. It is not unusual for people who are in psychiatric services for long periods of time to have their diagnoses changed periodically by different professionals they come into contact with.

The most important thing really is not what label you ultimately have, but whether you are able to access treatments and services that you find beneficial in obtaining the best possible quality of life (or avoiding them completely if that is what you need).



Venerab1e1
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16 Feb 2012, 11:40 pm

LittleBlackCat wrote:
Traditionally, AS was considered to be a form of schizophrenia and I have seen many articles suggesting that aspies have an increased risk of developing it, although general consensus seems to be this is only marginal. Some more recent research though has suggested that they may in fact be genetic opposites. I think the jury is still out at the moment. Either way you would definitely be unlucky both statistically and in terms of living with the symptoms to have both conditions.

It is perfectly plausible of Bun to suggest you may have been misdiagnosed with either one. There is certainly some overlap of symptoms between the two. This can be further complicated by the fact that if you did indeed have AS, then living with some of the more negative consequences of this (or indeed any other major traumas or stress in your life) could well cause psychological consequences which could cause psychotic symptoms, paranoia or delusions similar to those seen in schizophrenia (these can occur in severe anxiety or depression for example). You could even have a completely different diagnosis such as AS + Bipolar (a common co-morbidity) or some form of personality disorder which better explains your symptoms.

I often wonder how valid some of these diagnostic labels are, given their subjective nature and just how difficult it becomes to accurately pinpoint the causes of people's problems as they age and accumulate life experiences. It is not unusual for people who are in psychiatric services for long periods of time to have their diagnoses changed periodically by different professionals they come into contact with.

The most important thing really is not what label you ultimately have, but whether you are able to access treatments and services that you find beneficial in obtaining the best possible quality of life (or avoiding them completely if that is what you need).


I agree that treating the symptoms is more important then the label but I just get angry spending all of this money on three different doctors and not getting a concensus out of them. It's almost like what's the point of going to these so called experts when they can't even agree with what is wrong with me. I'm ready for a label so I can accept it and move on with my life whether that label is schizophrenia or aspergers I don't really care.



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17 Feb 2012, 12:56 am

Venerab1e1 wrote:
Bun wrote:
Or you could be misdiagnosed. What symptoms do you have?


I have all of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia plus delusions. I wouldn't be shocked if I was misdiagnosed because that could all be explained by depression caused by aspergers. What do you think?

I'm aware there's such a thing as psychotic depression, and depression in itself is known to cause a negative bias in one's thinking process... But I can't tell you if there is a differential diagnosis for psychotic depression because I wouldn't know, sorry. There is at least one psychology major on this board, though.


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17 Feb 2012, 11:43 am

I went to five different doctors/therapists/psychologists over the course of 14 years starting at age 5 and not one of them ever suspected autism in me. It was someone without any psychological education but with experience with aspergers who told me what was wrong with me, and since then I've educated myself and become an expert. Now I work at a preschool with a 3-year-old boy who clearly has AS and no one will believe me because I'm "not qualified" to diagnose him. He's suffering because no one but me knows what he needs, and I don't have this "official education" that makes me supposedly able to help him.

So if you ask me, you should worry less about what official diagnosis you have and more about how to help yourself. Have you been on antipsychotics? Do they help? If so, take them. If not, don't. Same with antidepressants. Does therapy help you? Is it more helpful to you to talk to close friends and family? Figure out the specific needs you have and address them individually. If you wait for doctors to reach a consensus on your condition, not only will you be waiting for ages, they might not even give you the right answer. You are the only expert on what is wrong with or different about you.

As a general suggestion, I have a friend who is schizophrenic who finds yoga and tai chi to be immensely helpful, far more so than any medication he's ever been on. I've started trying it with him and I find it helpful for the more problematic symptoms of AS as well. I'm not a fan of medication, so I always encourage people to try alternative ways to help themselves rather than just dumping chemicals in their bodies, and this stuff seems to work for many different conditions.

In any case, good luck. I hope you find an answer soon - I remember how frustrating it was for me for years and years looking for an answer that no one could give me.



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18 Feb 2012, 6:10 am

Some professionals claim they are opposites while others claim they are linked. Who really knows.

Personally, I'm not sure what my problem is. I think it's possible to have autism, paranoia, and hallucinations all at once without being schizophrenic. But the overlap on a superficial level is difficult to ignore.

The thing about me is I usually maintain logic. I am very logical for the most part, and this is something that people with schizophrenia tend to lack. Even when I was at my most paranoid, I always maintained doubt about my "delusions." In actuality, paranoid thoughts are not the same as true delusions. Paranoid thoughts have reason behind them and have some justification, while pure delusions do not.



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18 Feb 2012, 7:00 am

Personally, since having a major breakdown a little over two and a half years ago I have had something of a paradigm shift. For someone like me, who has always liked to have the "right" answer, and a single "correct" solution, it is something of a slippery concept to grasp, but I have come to the realisation that things will never be as simple as applying a label and selecting a treatment in the same way as one might for, say, a broken leg.

I relate very strongly to the AS diagnosis and can trace many traits back to as young as 7 or 8 (I simply can't remember very much before then), but there are barriers to getting an official diagnosis and, even if I did, how could I know whether those traits are neurological/genetic or psychological or some combination of the two? I have had periods of depression and anxiety. At the time of my breakdown I also had some psychotic symptoms. It was suggested at the time I had borderline personality disorder, although this was I diagnosis I really don't relate to and was changed a couple of weeks later to psychotic depression.

I have come to the realisation now that the power to affect my life positively or negatively must reside with me and, while I can choose to accept help, I must decide for myself what format that will take. If what is available is not beneficial to me (as it has not been recently) then I will respectfully decline and find other ways to progress on my own terms.



Venerab1e1
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21 Feb 2012, 12:39 am

kotshka wrote:
I went to five different doctors/therapists/psychologists over the course of 14 years starting at age 5 and not one of them ever suspected autism in me. It was someone without any psychological education but with experience with aspergers who told me what was wrong with me, and since then I've educated myself and become an expert. Now I work at a preschool with a 3-year-old boy who clearly has AS and no one will believe me because I'm "not qualified" to diagnose him. He's suffering because no one but me knows what he needs, and I don't have this "official education" that makes me supposedly able to help him.

So if you ask me, you should worry less about what official diagnosis you have and more about how to help yourself. Have you been on antipsychotics? Do they help? If so, take them. If not, don't. Same with antidepressants. Does therapy help you? Is it more helpful to you to talk to close friends and family? Figure out the specific needs you have and address them individually. If you wait for doctors to reach a consensus on your condition, not only will you be waiting for ages, they might not even give you the right answer. You are the only expert on what is wrong with or different about you.

As a general suggestion, I have a friend who is schizophrenic who finds yoga and tai chi to be immensely helpful, far more so than any medication he's ever been on. I've started trying it with him and I find it helpful for the more problematic symptoms of AS as well. I'm not a fan of medication, so I always encourage people to try alternative ways to help themselves rather than just dumping chemicals in their bodies, and this stuff seems to work for many different conditions.

In any case, good luck. I hope you find an answer soon - I remember how frustrating it was for me for years and years looking for an answer that no one could give me.


Thank you, I hope I find out the answers soon too.



Venerab1e1
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21 Feb 2012, 12:43 am

heavenlyabyss wrote:
Some professionals claim they are opposites while others claim they are linked. Who really knows.

Personally, I'm not sure what my problem is. I think it's possible to have autism, paranoia, and hallucinations all at once without being schizophrenic. But the overlap on a superficial level is difficult to ignore.

The thing about me is I usually maintain logic. I am very logical for the most part, and this is something that people with schizophrenia tend to lack. Even when I was at my most paranoid, I always maintained doubt about my "delusions." In actuality, paranoid thoughts are not the same as true delusions. Paranoid thoughts have reason behind them and have some justification, while pure delusions do not.


I suspect that I have autism with delusions and paranoia because my delusions aren't true delusions. I can usually stay logical and realize that my delusions are just that whereas with schizophrenia they maintain that there delusions are true no matter how much evidence suggests otherwise. Thank you I found this post to be very helpful.



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21 Feb 2012, 3:54 am

Venerab1e1 wrote:
heavenlyabyss wrote:
Some professionals claim they are opposites while others claim they are linked. Who really knows.

Personally, I'm not sure what my problem is. I think it's possible to have autism, paranoia, and hallucinations all at once without being schizophrenic. But the overlap on a superficial level is difficult to ignore.

The thing about me is I usually maintain logic. I am very logical for the most part, and this is something that people with schizophrenia tend to lack. Even when I was at my most paranoid, I always maintained doubt about my "delusions." In actuality, paranoid thoughts are not the same as true delusions. Paranoid thoughts have reason behind them and have some justification, while pure delusions do not.


I suspect that I have autism with delusions and paranoia because my delusions aren't true delusions. I can usually stay logical and realize that my delusions are just that whereas with schizophrenia they maintain that there delusions are true no matter how much evidence suggests otherwise. Thank you I found this post to be very helpful.


Keep in mind I am a layman. Diagnoses cannot be made over the internet.

Also keep in mind depression and bipolar can often mimic schizophrenia (look up bipolar psychosis and psychotic depression if you haven't already). Major depression with a history of psychotic features used to be my diagnosis - I think they dropped the second part of it since I haven't had that problem for such a long time.



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24 Feb 2012, 6:12 pm

Venerab1e1 wrote:
In my case I was diagnosed with schizophrenia first, then during my last visit with one of my three doctors my theropist suspected I may also have aspergers. Which if true, I would have had to have the aspergers first, then developed the schizophrenia later. Which brings me to my question, are aspies more likely to develop schizophrenia or am I just extremely unlucky for possibly having both.


Schizophrenia and autism actually have a lot of similarities. This thread talks a lot about the two: http://www.autismhelpforyou.com/Autism% ... mpared.htm

Venerab1e1 wrote:
Bun wrote:
Or you could be misdiagnosed. What symptoms do you have?


I have all of the negative symptoms of schizophrenia plus delusions. I wouldn't be shocked if I was misdiagnosed because that could all be explained by depression caused by aspergers. What do you think?


Do you have any hallucinations? That's pretty much the defining factor of schizophrenia.


heavenlyabyss wrote:
The thing about me is I usually maintain logic. I am very logical for the most part, and this is something that people with schizophrenia tend to lack. Even when I was at my most paranoid, I always maintained doubt about my "delusions." In actuality, paranoid thoughts are not the same as true delusions. Paranoid thoughts have reason behind them and have some justification, while pure delusions do not.


Well that's not true. That's a stereotype that people with schizophrenia don't have much logic. I'm a very logical person, and I have schizophrenia.

Venerab1e1 wrote:
I suspect that I have autism with delusions and paranoia because my delusions aren't true delusions. I can usually stay logical and realize that my delusions are just that whereas with schizophrenia they maintain that there delusions are true no matter how much evidence suggests otherwise. Thank you I found this post to be very helpful.


Not every person with schizophrenia has delusions. It's primarily paranoid type that involves delusions. Also, even when I get the occasional delusion, I usually realize that it's not true.



Venerab1e1
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24 Feb 2012, 8:02 pm

That was an interesting article Lizerina, I had no idea there was so much overlap between autism and schizophrenia. No I don't have hallucinations but was still diagnosed with schizophrenia anyway because my delusions were considered bizarre so they diagnosed me with the paranoid subtype even though I don't have hallucinations. I scheduled a test for aspergers next month so we'll see then if I was misdiagnosed with schizophrenia since it is highly unlikely that I have both.