Maybe this will be a useful wake up call for some here....

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The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Mar 2012, 4:32 am

http://www.evanmarckatz.com/blog/do-you ... 2BdiYGPXzM



Last edited by The_Face_of_Boo on 14 Mar 2012, 7:14 am, edited 2 times in total.

mds_02
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14 Mar 2012, 5:07 am

I've been thinking the same for quite a while now.

For me, for the men I know, a woman could be the CEO of a major corporation or she could work in fast food, when it comes to looking for a partner we truly do not give a s**t.

Not saying all women care about money or status. Personal experience shows me most don't.

But the ones who do care about that stuff in others are mostly the same ones motivated to become that top 10% of earners he mentions. People are entitled to their standards no matter how stupid I may think those standards are. But the problem I see is that, instead of looking to their own actions to explain their situation, they perpetuate the myth of men resenting, or being intimidated by, powerful women.


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ToughDiamond
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14 Mar 2012, 5:31 am

I've only noticed one partner of mine having that attitude. I grew up thinking that such preferences were out of date and that most people were more interested in compatible traits than earning power. And none of my partners except that (fairly recent) one ever gave me any reason to re-think my belief.

But I've seen it written so many times that women want men who have more money than they have, that it must have some truth in it. I guess I don't present myself as being in any way wealthy - I wear ordinary clothes and have a relatively frugal lifestyle - so maybe my behaviour filters out women who have that particular mainstream trait.

I think I'd feel bad if I thought a partner's loyalty was dependent on my wallet. It's very easy to lose one's income, especially during a recession, through no fault of one's own. It seems to fly in the face of love to reduce the whole thing down to legalised prostitution.

I'd say the best thing is to remember that even if most women have money as their number one pfererence in a partner, there are so many women out there that it doesn't really matter. Dress frugal, act frugal, be straight about your attitude to money, and the gold-diggers will probably steer clear, and there will still be a lot of women to choose from.

I think that pulling one's own weight economically is usually important........I think it's time men started to expect that of women, though if he's loaded anyway, I guess it doesn't really matter, as long as his job isn't so gruelling that he begins to resent the fact that she is swanning about polishing her nails while he's up to his neck in high-pressure work to fuel her hedonism.



mv
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14 Mar 2012, 7:03 am

{shrug} I'm only one (modern) woman, but I've never cared what a man makes, as long as he can take care of himself. I guess I'm unusual, it could never matter to me what someone else makes, because I don't understand the concept of spending someone else's money. I make money, and if I choose to spend that money on me and my family, that's one thing. Giving someone else access to that money is something else, something that's alien. Bartering one's self, one's intrinsic worth, in order to get access to someone else's money, is super creepy to me.

I pay my own way on dates, unless the other person feels very strongly about it, and even then I'll pick up the next date.



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14 Mar 2012, 7:09 am

mv wrote:
{shrug} I'm only one (modern) woman, but I've never cared what a man makes, as long as he can take care of himself. I guess I'm unusual, it could never matter to me what someone else makes, because I don't understand the concept of spending someone else's money. I make money, and if I choose to spend that money on me and my family, that's one thing. Giving someone else access to that money is something else, something that's alien. Bartering one's self, one's intrinsic worth, in order to get access to someone else's money, is super creepy to me.

I pay my own way on dates, unless the other person feels very strongly about it, and even then I'll pick up the next date.

If only this was more mainstream thought.



Kjas
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14 Mar 2012, 7:13 am

Another one here, I don't really care what he makes. I do value certain traits but that's about it.

I will admit that I have seen many women who have trouble dating down in the income bracket. At the same time when they do decide to try, I have seen many men date up, say "they're fine with it" but at the same time, they often have trouble with it and it shows subconsciously in the way they interact over time. Ditto same result with the women who try to date down.

Many times a lot of people aren't even aware they have an issue in this situation until they are in it and find out the hard way.


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mv
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14 Mar 2012, 7:15 am

Kjas wrote:
Another one here, I don't really care what he makes. I do value certain traits but that's about it.

I will admit that I have seen many women who have trouble dating down in the income bracket. At the same time when they do decide to try, I have seen many men date up, say "they're fine with it" but at the same time, they often have trouble with it and it shows subconsciously in the way they interact over time. Ditto same result with the women who try to date down.

Many times a lot of people aren't even aware they have an issue in this situation until they are in it and find out the hard way.


I've seen this, too. Then you have to go out of your way to make sure he doesn't know what you make, etc., and the whole thing becomes a big mess.

There's really no way to talk a man out of feeling "emasculated" if that's how he's feeling.



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14 Mar 2012, 7:42 am

mv wrote:
Kjas wrote:
Another one here, I don't really care what he makes. I do value certain traits but that's about it.

I will admit that I have seen many women who have trouble dating down in the income bracket. At the same time when they do decide to try, I have seen many men date up, say "they're fine with it" but at the same time, they often have trouble with it and it shows subconsciously in the way they interact over time. Ditto same result with the women who try to date down.

Many times a lot of people aren't even aware they have an issue in this situation until they are in it and find out the hard way.


I've seen this, too. Then you have to go out of your way to make sure he doesn't know what you make, etc., and the whole thing becomes a big mess.

There's really no way to talk a man out of feeling "emasculated" if that's how he's feeling.


The use of the word "emasculated" struck me in this post and got me thinking.

What if the reason the majority of women do not like to be with a man who earns less than them is because they feel that it renders them less of a woman? Less feminine?

I expect most women already have to use their more "masculine" energy at work most of the day. They probably don't want to come home to something that makes them feel they are not, or can not be "feminine", especially around a spouse, partner or boyfriend who is supposed to let them relax and be able to feel that way so they can recharge? I know it can really tire me and stress me out when I stay in my "masculine" energy for too long, it's great for some things (work, sports, looking after kids) but staying in it all the time is tiring for me.


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14 Mar 2012, 7:48 am

MXH wrote:
mv wrote:
{shrug} I'm only one (modern) woman, but I've never cared what a man makes, as long as he can take care of himself. I guess I'm unusual, it could never matter to me what someone else makes, because I don't understand the concept of spending someone else's money. I make money, and if I choose to spend that money on me and my family, that's one thing. Giving someone else access to that money is something else, something that's alien. Bartering one's self, one's intrinsic worth, in order to get access to someone else's money, is super creepy to me.

I pay my own way on dates, unless the other person feels very strongly about it, and even then I'll pick up the next date.

If only this was more mainstream thought.


+ 1


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mv
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14 Mar 2012, 7:51 am

Kjas wrote:
mv wrote:
Kjas wrote:
Another one here, I don't really care what he makes. I do value certain traits but that's about it.

I will admit that I have seen many women who have trouble dating down in the income bracket. At the same time when they do decide to try, I have seen many men date up, say "they're fine with it" but at the same time, they often have trouble with it and it shows subconsciously in the way they interact over time. Ditto same result with the women who try to date down.

Many times a lot of people aren't even aware they have an issue in this situation until they are in it and find out the hard way.


I've seen this, too. Then you have to go out of your way to make sure he doesn't know what you make, etc., and the whole thing becomes a big mess.

There's really no way to talk a man out of feeling "emasculated" if that's how he's feeling.


The use of the word "emasculated" struck me in this post and got me thinking.

What if the reason the majority of women do not like to be with a man who earns less than them is because they feel that it renders them less of a woman? Less feminine?

I expect most women already have to use their more "masculine" energy at work most of the day. They probably don't want to come home to something that makes them feel they are not, or can not be "feminine", especially around a spouse, partner or boyfriend who is supposed to let them relax and be able to feel that way so they can recharge? I know it can really tire me and stress me out when I stay in my "masculine" energy for too long, it's great for some things (work, sports, looking after kids) but staying in it all the time is tiring for me.


It's an interesting theory, but it makes me wonder: who is constructing these gender roles? Are they somewhat natural (they are not, to me, but then I'm on the spectrum)? Are they reinforced for the greater good, despite not being good supportive constructs, generally?



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14 Mar 2012, 7:54 am

I agree with the article, however, like all other things extreme in my life, I am on the extreme side of that relationship situation being female and the only income right now for a few years...and it sucks.


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The_Face_of_Boo
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14 Mar 2012, 7:54 am

Quote:
who is constructing these gender roles? Are they somewhat natural (they are not, to me, but then I'm on the spectrum)? Are they reinforced for the greater good, despite not being good supportive constructs, generally?


^^One word: Evolution.



mv
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14 Mar 2012, 7:55 am

goodwitchy wrote:
I agree with the article, however, like all other things extreme in my life, I am on the extreme side of that relationship situation being female and the only income right now for a few years...and it sucks.


I think being the only income is tough no matter what gender you are. That terrible feeling of, "Well, if I fail, then that's it for everyone who's counting on me." I've been there, more than once, and it's very hard. {hugs} I'm kind of there now (no partner, but children who are with me 50/50).



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14 Mar 2012, 8:00 am

mv wrote:
It's an interesting theory, but it makes me wonder: who is constructing these gender roles? Are they somewhat natural (they are not, to me, but then I'm on the spectrum)? Are they reinforced for the greater good, despite not being good supportive constructs, generally?


I know that for me personally, it doesn't really have anything to do with gender roles. I'm very resistant to the whole "socially acceptable" thing so I don't think that plays a part for me. But then again, you never know how much affect AS has on this sort of thing.

Boo might be right on this, it might partially be evolutionary in nature and the other part of it may come from gender constructs (particularly for normal women), it would probably be a combination of the two.


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Last edited by Kjas on 14 Mar 2012, 8:09 am, edited 1 time in total.

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14 Mar 2012, 8:02 am

mv wrote:
goodwitchy wrote:
I agree with the article, however, like all other things extreme in my life, I am on the extreme side of that relationship situation being female and the only income right now for a few years...and it sucks.


I think being the only income is tough no matter what gender you are. That terrible feeling of, "Well, if I fail, then that's it for everyone who's counting on me." I've been there, more than once, and it's very hard. {hugs} I'm kind of there now (no partner, but children who are with me 50/50).


Thank you so much for understanding mv, and I totally agree with you.
I hope your situation improves too.


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MXH
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14 Mar 2012, 9:32 am

BTW ill make an example of this. My parents went from my dad being the bread winner by a small margin to my mom now making twice as much as him when her career kicked on. For them it wasnt a big deal but i can see how that would scare most guys.