Aspie authors writing social interaction

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Veggie Farmer
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15 Jan 2018, 9:23 am

fluffysaurus wrote:
Veggie Farmer wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Veggie Farmer wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Veggie Farmer wrote:
heh, heh... now I’ll add something actually on topic! Observing social interaction is very different than experiencing it. We’re probably in better shape than most NT extroverts on this matter, because we’ve spent more time on the outside watching other humans interact, when they only have their limited view from the inside. I think of Jane Austen, who was brilliant at detailing human foibles but spent very little time with strangers.

Lately I’ve been studying how to better convey character’s emotions through their physical actions within conversations. I’ve been trying to closely observe actors on TV and movies to see what moves they incorporate and, of course, what real people do during my infrequent ventures into the public sphere.


With human interaction in fiction - in particular dialogue - the whole point is to convey information in order to kepp the story flowing, rather than to explicitly imitate true life. Especially as most human interaction consists of the likes of:
"How are you doing?"
"Okay. Nice weather."
Human interaction in fiction is always more interesting than in real life.



I believe your point is true for more than just conversation, you never want to include any superfluous actions/words that bog down the story. No one should describe the main character taking a potty break! My interest is how to give enough detail for a viewer to understand the characters inner thoughts without relying solely on dialogue (show, don’t tell) Incorporating small movements can give a reader useful additonal hints to the character’s emotions: the way he tilts his head, if she drops eye contact, or crosses her arms when he approaches...


Absolutely.


The non-verbal stuff is such a NT thing to do, but I struggle with it. I have about a dozen go-to moves I’ve been using, but I’m afraid I’m getting repetitive. I worry my readers might be tempted to start a drinking game and do shots whenever a character shrugs.


I am using 'The Emotion Thesaurus: A Writer's Guide To Character Expressions' by Angela Ackerman & Becca Puglisi.
I find it really helpful particularly as an Aspie. It's not written for Aspies but it's well laid out. It starts with a list of emotions eg DENIAL page 42.
At page 42 is

DENIAL.
PHYSICAL SIGNS OF DENIAL (there are 28); Backing away, going quiet and unresponsive.
INTERNAL SENSATIONS (10); a lack of energy, limbs that feel heavy.
MENTAL RESPONSES (4); shame
CUES OF ACUTE OR LONG-TERM DEFEAT (5); self-loathing.
CUES OF SUPPRESSED DEFEAT (11); Shaking the head.

I find that it's good to start me off so I often don't actually use the example as given but vary it to it makes it much easier to distinguish between similar emotional reactions eg dread/doubt or excitement/happiness.

I just realised this sounds like an advert. I really don't know either author, they're on the other side of the pond, but while I think this would be useful for someone who's Autistic or a writer, I think it's priceless for those of us who are both.


Thank you so much for the suggestion! Wow, I can’t believe something so unusual and useful exists!


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AngryAngryAngry
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16 Jan 2018, 4:43 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
With human interaction in fiction - in particular dialogue - the whole point is to convey information in order to kepp the story flowing, rather than to explicitly imitate true life. Especially as most human interaction consists of the likes of:
"How are you doing?"
"Okay. Nice weather."
Human interaction in fiction is always more interesting than in real life.


Actually you can skip over boring dialogue, and boring parts of the story:

They introduced themselves. -done and on to the interesting bits.
They travelled for 3 days over bad roads. -short and sweet, the boring bit is out of the way.

If you've ever seen office politics in a workplace, NT interractions are far from boring. There are so many outrageous mindgames going on, intrigue. Find a sociopath and pay them for their best stories - they will often be the perpetraitors of intrigue, but none the less will have exciting conflicts to report (even if they may embellish a bit).

NT friendships are wrought with conflicts and falling outs, over the tiniest of things. They can get so emotional over minor issues.



Veggie Farmer
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16 Jan 2018, 5:10 pm

AngryAngryAngry wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
With human interaction in fiction - in particular dialogue - the whole point is to convey information in order to kepp the story flowing, rather than to explicitly imitate true life. Especially as most human interaction consists of the likes of:
"How are you doing?"
"Okay. Nice weather."
Human interaction in fiction is always more interesting than in real life.


Actually you can skip over boring dialogue, and boring parts of the story:

They introduced themselves. -done and on to the interesting bits.
They travelled for 3 days over bad roads. -short and sweet, the boring bit is out of the way.

If you've ever seen office politics in a workplace, NT interractions are far from boring. There are so many outrageous mindgames going on, intrigue. Find a sociopath and pay them for their best stories - they will often be the perpetraitors of intrigue, but none the less will have exciting conflicts to report (even if they may embellish a bit).

NT friendships are wrought with conflicts and falling outs, over the tiniest of things. They can get so emotional over minor issues.


“I’ve never written a boring scene!” she lied. :D

The oddest review I’ve ever seen was on a friend of mine’s fan fic. She had ended a chapter with the characters getting on a plane, and started the next chapter with them landing. The author got ripped for not providing all of the ‘important details needed to understand the story’. Um... it was a red-eye flight... I’d assume the characters slept the whole way?

I know what you mean with catty NT office politics!


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Kraichgauer
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16 Jan 2018, 8:36 pm

AngryAngryAngry wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
With human interaction in fiction - in particular dialogue - the whole point is to convey information in order to kepp the story flowing, rather than to explicitly imitate true life. Especially as most human interaction consists of the likes of:
"How are you doing?"
"Okay. Nice weather."
Human interaction in fiction is always more interesting than in real life.


Actually you can skip over boring dialogue, and boring parts of the story:

They introduced themselves. -done and on to the interesting bits.
They travelled for 3 days over bad roads. -short and sweet, the boring bit is out of the way.

If you've ever seen office politics in a workplace, NT interractions are far from boring. There are so many outrageous mindgames going on, intrigue. Find a sociopath and pay them for their best stories - they will often be the perpetraitors of intrigue, but none the less will have exciting conflicts to report (even if they may embellish a bit).

NT friendships are wrought with conflicts and falling outs, over the tiniest of things. They can get so emotional over minor issues.


But even with exciting and intriguing sociopaths, most of the time they say things more mundane than profound. If anything, it's us Aspies who want to spew out relevant and fascinating information rather than making small talk.


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Veggie Farmer
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24 Jan 2018, 8:43 pm

I was thinking about this as I settled into the evening writing block, because I’ve recently started a new book with new characters. To me, one of the keys to generating realistic dialogue is having three-dimensional, well-understood characters, so I start working on character development even while I’m still revising the previous book, long before starting that rough draft. I pick the three or four most important characters, and run them through a list of about 30 questions I developed over time - who they love, where did they go to school and what major, political views, what their daily routine is like, their relationships with their families, their biggest fears and regrets ... even silly things like how they approach grocery shopping or their housekeeping habits or favorite movies can say something about their personality. I’ll go to the mall and pick out outfits for them for different scenes in the book. I’ll even play what I call the Dinner Party game: I imagine how they would interact with people I know, or TV or movie characters out of my favorite fandoms. By the time I start actually writing I usually have a pretty good sense of their personalities and the conversations flow easily. If all is going well, they start to write themselves during the rough draft. I love those moments, when T or David or Jake takes the wheel and I’m just along for the ride!


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Kraichgauer
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24 Jan 2018, 9:25 pm

I am close to finishing a story, but one thing is still missing - - how to kill off a detestable villain. Oh, I've killed off bad guys before, it's just this guy. So far, what I've come up with is pretty pedestrian.
The guy is a two thousand year old magic user who has hijacked the body of an archaeologist - who is now stuck in said magic user's animated corpse. The magic user, after stealing the archaeologist's fiance and life, is being followed by this mummified specter wanting his body back. This climatic scene is set in the archaeologist's house, after his girlfriend has come to learn the truth about the hideous dead thing pursuing her lover.
Any ideas?


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Veggie Farmer
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24 Jan 2018, 10:01 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
I am close to finishing a story, but one thing is still missing - - how to kill off a detestable villain. Oh, I've killed off bad guys before, it's just this guy. So far, what I've come up with is pretty pedestrian.
The guy is a two thousand year old magic user who has hijacked the body of an archaeologist - who is now stuck in said magic user's animated corpse. The magic user, after stealing the archaeologist's fiance and life, is being followed by this mummified specter wanting his body back. This climatic scene is set in the archaeologist's house, after his girlfriend has come to learn the truth about the hideous dead thing pursuing her lover.
Any ideas?



Ooh, what an awesome set-up! My first thought was for the archeologist to use some kind of modern technology as a counterpoint to the ancient magic. How ambulatory is the corpse body? Enough to manipulate objects well? Could the girlfriend by any chance have medical skills?


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Kraichgauer
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24 Jan 2018, 10:18 pm

Veggie Farmer wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I am close to finishing a story, but one thing is still missing - - how to kill off a detestable villain. Oh, I've killed off bad guys before, it's just this guy. So far, what I've come up with is pretty pedestrian.
The guy is a two thousand year old magic user who has hijacked the body of an archaeologist - who is now stuck in said magic user's animated corpse. The magic user, after stealing the archaeologist's fiance and life, is being followed by this mummified specter wanting his body back. This climatic scene is set in the archaeologist's house, after his girlfriend has come to learn the truth about the hideous dead thing pursuing her lover.
Any ideas?



Ooh, what an awesome set-up! My first thought was for the archeologist to use some kind of modern technology as a counterpoint to the ancient magic. How ambulatory is the corpse body? Enough to manipulate objects well? Could the girlfriend by any chance have medical skills?


He's ambulatory enough in the corpse, but he's physically weak.
The fiance is an English Lit professor.
Their plan had been to force Wulfgar, the magic user, to exchange bodies again, but an ancient knife that had been used in the process is thousands of miles away in Europe.


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Veggie Farmer
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24 Jan 2018, 10:34 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Veggie Farmer wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I am close to finishing a story, but one thing is still missing - - how to kill off a detestable villain. Oh, I've killed off bad guys before, it's just this guy. So far, what I've come up with is pretty pedestrian.
The guy is a two thousand year old magic user who has hijacked the body of an archaeologist - who is now stuck in said magic user's animated corpse. The magic user, after stealing the archaeologist's fiance and life, is being followed by this mummified specter wanting his body back. This climatic scene is set in the archaeologist's house, after his girlfriend has come to learn the truth about the hideous dead thing pursuing her lover.
Any ideas?



Ooh, what an awesome set-up! My first thought was for the archeologist to use some kind of modern technology as a counterpoint to the ancient magic. How ambulatory is the corpse body? Enough to manipulate objects well? Could the girlfriend by any chance have medical skills?


He's ambulatory enough in the corpse, but he's physically weak.
The fiance is an English Lit professor.
Their plan had been to force Wulfgar, the magic user, to exchange bodies again, but an ancient knife that had been used in the process is thousands of miles away in Europe.



hmm, that killed my idea! I would have suggested administering some kind of drug to knock out both bodies, and have their spirits fight it out in the aether.

I’m not the go-to girl for death scenes. I get emotional. I just did some rough draft where the good guy gives the traitor a choice between life in a blacksite prison or committing suicide, and I got all teary-eyed for the traitor. He ends up getting shot by his secretary after divulging big secrets to the good guy, which I thought was a nicer way to go.


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fluffysaurus
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25 Jan 2018, 9:17 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Veggie Farmer wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
I am close to finishing a story, but one thing is still missing - - how to kill off a detestable villain. Oh, I've killed off bad guys before, it's just this guy. So far, what I've come up with is pretty pedestrian.
The guy is a two thousand year old magic user who has hijacked the body of an archaeologist - who is now stuck in said magic user's animated corpse. The magic user, after stealing the archaeologist's fiance and life, is being followed by this mummified specter wanting his body back. This climatic scene is set in the archaeologist's house, after his girlfriend has come to learn the truth about the hideous dead thing pursuing her lover.
Any ideas?



Ooh, what an awesome set-up! My first thought was for the archeologist to use some kind of modern technology as a counterpoint to the ancient magic. How ambulatory is the corpse body? Enough to manipulate objects well? Could the girlfriend by any chance have medical skills?


He's ambulatory enough in the corpse, but he's physically weak.
The fiance is an English Lit professor.
Their plan had been to force Wulfgar, the magic user, to exchange bodies again, but an ancient knife that had been used in the process is thousands of miles away in Europe.

This is getting exciting.
Would you like me to put the knife in the post?
I feel Wulfar's real nemesis would be a cat. Better still, lots of cats.



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25 Jan 2018, 9:21 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
it's us Aspies who want to spew out relevant and fascinating information rather than making small talk.

Well, it's relevant and fascinating information to us :D



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25 Jan 2018, 8:41 pm

Actually, I just killed the guy off. Burned alive in an attempt to murder his nemesis and his girlfriend in the same manner. That leaves the archaeologist trapped in a mummified body.


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Veggie Farmer
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25 Jan 2018, 9:48 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I just killed the guy off. Burned alive in an attempt to murder his nemesis and his girlfriend in the same manner. That leaves the archaeologist trapped in a mummified body.


I like it! Not the typical happy ending.


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25 Jan 2018, 11:13 pm

Veggie Farmer wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Actually, I just killed the guy off. Burned alive in an attempt to murder his nemesis and his girlfriend in the same manner. That leaves the archaeologist trapped in a mummified body.


I like it! Not the typical happy ending.


Thanks!
But the ending isn't as grim as one might first think, as love can make what body one is left with irrelevant.


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11 Mar 2018, 3:53 pm

I think this is a decent ending, but once again it's a rough draft:


The snow began to cease. The night sky was the canvas for stars both fallen and still in the sky. Blood stained Jared's winter clothes in the traditional colors of his clan, a dark blue t-shirt, a deep red leather jacket and black combat boots with purple laces. The colors he loved yet hated. Shiloh's ending was demon society's fault. It was father and mother's fault. Most of all, it was Jared's fault. Had he not of befriended Shiloh and kept his distance Jared wouldn't have felt a trace of guilt. Shiloh was supposed to be Jared's mission.

Jared's slender body shook. His water jade green eyes closed. His below shoulder length black hair that was the same color as Shiloh's was wet with sweater and blood. Jared fell onto the snowy ground. He squirmed and brought his knees up to his chest holding them together with his arms. A warm hand rubbed against Jared's shoulder. Jared slowly turned his head to the left. Noelle kneeled beside Jared. Her eyes contained no tears.

"It's alright. You did what you had to do." Noelle said, surprisingly calm.

Jared remained silent, still remember the last thing Shiloh said,

It doesn't matter if I am a demon or an angel. It doesn't matter if I'm a saint or a sinner. All that matters is..."

"We can help each other regardless..." Jared finished.


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01 May 2018, 7:58 pm

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07CSGR6XW/re ... ng+shadows

I've gotten my first book published! And on top of that, it's my birthday! :D :D :D


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