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snapcap
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30 May 2012, 10:20 pm

AngelRho wrote:
Raptor wrote:
The only thing out of that part of that world that I've had and liked was hash.

You can get that here.

Image


Should have been a no brainer. Those Mexicans aren't slicing and dicing themselves up for no reason.


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DC
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30 May 2012, 10:59 pm

MagicToenail wrote:
A mixed bag. I almost failed al-gebra, but I occasionally indulge in alcohol-and no I didn't fail algebra because of alcohol, I just suck at math.
Seriously. I suffer from OCD and the anecdote that Arabic tapestry weavers actually put a little flaw on purpose in their works because only God is perfect touched even the cold heart of an agnostic like me.
It made me realize that everything didn't have to be, and actually shouldn't be perfect.
Oops misread the no negatives, but it's not Islam's fault I'm thick with numbers.
The al-cohol thing is because Arab alchemists were among the first to discover distilled liquors for medicinal purposes, a little ironic given the Islamic prohibition on alcohol.


Algebraic approaches to mathematics has been documented in Babylonian, Egyptian, Greek, Indian and Chinese documents all pre-dating Islam but it is true that from the 9th to 13th centuries muslim mathematicians did add to the existing body of knowledge.

This does fall foul of rule 3 though, if a debt of gratitude is owed by me for millennia old inventions then the USA should also bail out Greece as thanks for inventing democracy.

Any Americans willing to go without so that Greeks can carry on evading tax?

Didn't think so.

Alcohol distillation pre-dates Islam as well, Egyptians, Greeks & Mongolians did it, sorry Islam can't claim that.

snapcap wrote:
No Borat or Dictator.
I'm just throwing that out there, I've never seen any full length Sacha productions myself.


Sacha Baron Cohen is Jewish I believe not a muslim. It is easy to get the two mixed up but I hear they both get quite offended when you do...


Tequila wrote:
Turkish restaurants?


There are three restaurants near me, one of them is a 'fusion' place that offers food from around the world and the other two are pizza places that also offer doner kebabs.

Doner kebabs I give you as a genuine invention coming from Islam (kebabs pre-date islam, doner kebabs don't) but their improvement of my life is rather questionable, bit like saying the best thing that has ever come out of the USA is McDonalds.

Lord_Gareth wrote:
I've found that Islamic poets have produced some astoundingly beautiful poems and verses, and I doubt these men and women would have written such touching works without the influences of their faith.


Not my cup of tea but I'll give you that, worth noting that the only reason poetry thrives so much in Islam is that Islam ruthless forbids any form of visual representational art.

Raptor wrote:
The only thing out of that part of that world that I've had and liked was hash.


Cannabis is Chinese not Islamic.



Delphiki
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30 May 2012, 11:05 pm

I don't agree with your 3rd rule, In recent history there aren't any inventions, just innovations.

I have a hard time thinking of anything (not just arabic or muslim) that would fit that criteria that couldn't be said to have a predecessor.
iphone is a type of cellphone, Alexander graham bell with the phone.

I know you didn't say that it couldn't have a predecessor but it seems like if I were to say "muslims created cellphones" you could say it doesn't really matter because we already had phones so it was only a matter of time until some other group made cellphones


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Last edited by Delphiki on 30 May 2012, 11:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.

ruveyn
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31 May 2012, 1:27 am

Delphiki wrote:
I don't agree with your 3rd rule, In recent history there aren't any inventions, just innovations.

I have a hard time thinking of anything (not just arabic or muslim) that would fit that criteria that couldn't be said to have a predecessor.
iphone is a type of cellphone, Alexander graham bell with the phone.

I know you didn't say that it couldn't have a predecessor but it seems like if I were to say "muslims created cellphones" you could say it doesn't really matter because we already had phones so it was only a matter of time until some other group made cellphones


True invention and creation is in the realm of ideas.

Examples: The Greeks invented axiomatic mathematics starting with Thales
The quantum of energy, right out of the head of Max Planck
Calculus -- first invented by Archimedes, then lost, then re invented by Leibniz and Newton
Gravity as geometry. Right out of the head of Albert Einstein. Had Riemann lived longer it might have been him, but he died all too young.
Concepts of symmetries as members of a group. Right out of the head of Evriste Galloise. He died way too young in a stupid duel. He showed the quintic is unsolvable using his invention - group theory.


To innovate, one must first invent. And it is ideas that are created ex nihilo (as it were) with the help of the Muses.

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Declension
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31 May 2012, 2:07 am

If you live in a Christian-majority country, and you make a mathematical or scientific discovery, how would you like it if people in a few hundred years started claiming that Christianity was responsible for your discovery?



enrico_dandolo
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31 May 2012, 2:45 am

The Muslims gave the French language one of its most unlikely etymological link : douane, "customs office" (cf. dogana in Italian), and divan, "couch". Here, we have to thank as well the Italian merchants in Egypt.



ruveyn
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31 May 2012, 9:39 am

Declension wrote:
If you live in a Christian-majority country, and you make a mathematical or scientific discovery, how would you like it if people in a few hundred years started claiming that Christianity was responsible for your discovery?


You mean there were Christian mathematicians? In Europe 300 years ago just about everyone was Christian. If one take Christianity and the Bible literally then pi = 3 which is nonsense.

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b9
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31 May 2012, 10:40 am

i do not understand islamic principles. i have not taken much time to research them, and my knowledge of them is scant. arabs seem (as far as i can determine) to be easily irritated. in my general speculation, it seems that they are overly endowed with religious fervor and are irrascible when they encounter anything that is counter to their ideals of purity (maybe it is a polluted purity (meaning purely polluted)).

but i can associate with islamic people, and on a personal level, i have no problem. i have no theistic or antitheistic (which is what most self described "atheists" really are) opinions, and so i have no interest beyond the simple transactions i have with them. they like me and i like them and there is never any problem (the islamic people i know are customers of mine, not personal friends, so my knowledge of the true quality of their lives is scant).

i can not tell myths from facts often (not very often, but just often), and i am astounded that they think that they will have access to 72 virgins (from memory) if they die in an act of martyrdom. who worked that out?
mahommed (sp?) for some other "visionary"?

if it is known who worked it out, then the entire writings of that person should be analyzed to assess the accuracy of the claim. if it is not known who worked it out, then it is an irrelevant doctrine

the fact that they have to pray 5 times a day is another curious fact in my mind. it seems to me that god does not just exist in temples and citadels and mosques and churches.

i think that (my concept of) god exists everywhere. i do not need to go anywhere to meet god and i also do not have to perform rituals (that are not instinctive) in order to be worthy of good fortune. i do not think often about what my fundamental beliefs are because they exist whether i speculate about them introspectively or not. they guide me subconsciously in thinking about most things i guess.

no one else can tell me who God is. i will either find god myself or i maybe not.



Joker
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31 May 2012, 5:06 pm

Islam has given me a exuse to fight in the name of my faith also they have made me a target for being a christian. Yet we are both brothers ans sisters of Abraham.



NeueZiel
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31 May 2012, 7:38 pm

I had a really good physics tutor who I'm pretty sure was Muslim...OR Indian.. :?

I think the Iraq-Iran war and the whole ordeal in the middle east is very fascinating to read about. Love middle eastern (is it proper to call it -Islam-?) food too, very delicious.

The Palestian HAMAS run children's show "Pioneers of Tomorrow" has offered me more entertainment than most television has in the past years. Very funny program, too bad the studio was bombed.

That's all I can think up, sorry.



Raptor
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31 May 2012, 8:46 pm

DC wrote:

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Cannabis is Chinese not Islamic.


The last hash I had was Turkish and it was f*cking awesome.



Rainy
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01 Jun 2012, 4:33 am

Unless you're a Muslim, nothing.

Giving credit to Islam because some followers of it made some scientific advances is like giving credit to atheism/agnostism/nonreligion for creating Microsoft.



puddingmouse
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01 Jun 2012, 5:58 am

NeueZiel wrote:
I had a really good physics tutor who I'm pretty sure was Muslim...OR Indian.. :?


It's very possible to be both. There are more Muslims in India than in Pakistan.


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Oodain
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01 Jun 2012, 8:08 am

well for a fairly long period the arab world was the only intellectually free alternative for many europeans,
not that that in tiself has anything to do with islam.


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ruveyn
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01 Jun 2012, 8:46 am

NeueZiel wrote:
I

The Palestian HAMAS run children's show "Pioneers of Tomorrow" has offered me more entertainment than most television has in the past years. Very funny program, too bad the studio was bombed.

That's all I can think up, sorry.


That Palestinian version of Bert and Erny discuss ways of killing the Jewish crusaders on T.V.

Please see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemiti ... Arab_world

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b9
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01 Jun 2012, 10:31 am

is it "lam" or isn't it "lam"?
that is the crux of the question.
if it is "lam", and it isn't "isn't lam",
there's no philosophical indigestion.