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Corvus
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20 Nov 2006, 4:00 pm

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20061120/wl ... olshooting

Can we have a discussion on Loners and school shootings?

There was a story of a young adult in Montreal who shot others at a school. He was a loner, he kept to himself, he hated the world as he found most to be highly untrusting. They are always "obsessed" with something, in that case and this German one, it happened to be 'guns.'

The kid went to school to find out he was a loser.

Now, are all aspies going to shoot up their school? No, and 'normal' people are just as capable, but in these instances, there is a clear cut reason why they shot their schools up - a feeling of difference. Are they aspies or auties or whatever? I dont know, I only have a bit of an article to go buy, but many signs point to 'great possibility'

Most of us here are a bit more relieved as we know what is wrong with us (or 'isnt') but they may not know about what is wrong with them outside of their 'depression.'

I dont know, maybe its just me noticing this



stripey
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20 Nov 2006, 4:13 pm

I posted a very similar thread and got slated for it so expect a backlash.

Your point is valid and i can see why an undiagnosed youth would be driven to this.



diseased
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20 Nov 2006, 4:17 pm

Thought about this one a lot, actually.
I was in high school in the mid-late 80's. I wore black a lot, I had all of, what, 3 friends (had acquaintances too but they weren't close enough that I'd consider them friends).
LOVED firearms, hated The System, etc.
I think a big part of it was that I just didn't give enough of a rats ass about anyone at my school enough to want to kill them myself. Not to mention the fact that, ok, you kill, what, 15-20? A month later, they've been replaced by new students and you have to start over (provided you're not locked up or have committed suicide via cop).
It's just a phenomenal waste of time. All that planning, all that anger and rage and angst, all that ammo, and for what? A week or two of prime time news that you would've despised anyway and a lifetime legacy of being 'That nut that shot up his school'? No thanks.
If I were of a mind to go out with a bang, so to speak, you can bet your ass it'd be something productive... like nuking Congress, or assassinating the CEO of.. I dunno, Pfizer or Bayer or something.



Corvus
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20 Nov 2006, 4:24 pm

stripey wrote:
I posted a very similar thread and got slated for it so expect a backlash.

Your point is valid and i can see why an undiagnosed youth would be driven to this.


Why were you slated for it? I think its perfectly valid! It doesn't mean aspies and whatevers are dangerous and need to be looked out for, its just that some of that constant bullying adds up.

All I know is that if I was one of the 'bullied' aspies, I may look at people a bit differently then I do (and I already look at them pretty bitterly (I say that with a chuckle but with most comedy comes truth))



PrisonerSix
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21 Nov 2006, 10:05 am

diseased wrote:
Thought about this one a lot, actually.
I was in high school in the mid-late 80's. I wore black a lot, I had all of, what, 3 friends (had acquaintances too but they weren't close enough that I'd consider them friends).
LOVED firearms, hated The System, etc.
I think a big part of it was that I just didn't give enough of a rats ass about anyone at my school enough to want to kill them myself. Not to mention the fact that, ok, you kill, what, 15-20? A month later, they've been replaced by new students and you have to start over (provided you're not locked up or have committed suicide via cop).
It's just a phenomenal waste of time. All that planning, all that anger and rage and angst, all that ammo, and for what? A week or two of prime time news that you would've despised anyway and a lifetime legacy of being 'That nut that shot up his school'? No thanks.
If I were of a mind to go out with a bang, so to speak, you can bet your ass it'd be something productive... like nuking Congress, or assassinating the CEO of.. I dunno, Pfizer or Bayer or something.


Bullies are only a symptom, not the problem. The problem is the way educational institutions are set up and how they run. The enviornment of these places allows bullies to flourish while inronically, the people the place was designed for, the students who are there to learn, suffer.

Anyone who has seen the 1970s era exploitation movie "Massacre at Central High" will know what I mean. It's basically the story of a high school terrorized by a gang of brutal bullies. A student who stands up to them ends up being cripples by them and goes on a killing spree until all the members of the gang are dead. Briefly the school becomes a nicer place but in the end, it actually becomes more violent because other kids, including those brutalized most by the bullies, start grouping together and fighting amogst each other for the chance to fill the void left by the now dead gang.

The gang wasn't the problem, it was only a symptom. The problem was the institution that allowed the gangs to flourish unchecked.


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CockneyRebel
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21 Nov 2006, 10:28 am

I prefer flowers and Peace-Signs. :lol:



SteveK
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21 Nov 2006, 12:42 pm

Comeon! Being a loner does NOT make you an aspie! That is only a likely outcome with ONE of the symptoms. An NT with a chemical imbalence could EASILY become a dangerous loner!

Steve



dgd1788
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21 Nov 2006, 4:04 pm

I think even aspies need to learn self control. It is presumptious to even attempt to or succeed in such an act of violence.

I don't like guns and could never shoot anyone. I percieve this feeling everytime I picture myself with a gun in my hands, about to kill someone. And then I see myself crying, dropping the gun and going into crying/sobbing episodes. And I picture myself becoming angry for threatening that person.



Fraya
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21 Nov 2006, 4:17 pm

Quote:
everytime I picture myself with a gun in my hands, about to kill someone. And then I see myself crying


Thats funny whenever I picture this I see myself carefully aiming for something vital :P

If I ever did point a gun at someone dont doubt I wouldnt pull the trigger without a second thought.. since the only reason I can picture myself holding and aiming one is in self defense.

I tend to agree that an aspie being violent like that would be very uncommon since shooting someone is almost always premeditated and driven by emotion.

Logically speaking it doesnt take a genius to realize it would only make things worse.


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Corvus
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21 Nov 2006, 5:52 pm

SteveK wrote:
Comeon! Being a loner does NOT make you an aspie! That is only a likely outcome with ONE of the symptoms. An NT with a chemical imbalence could EASILY become a dangerous loner!

Steve


You're right, but don't conclude that they aren't aspie or even potentially. Your post sounds conclusive when you've had as much information to go by that I did.

Many of these kids are describe by others as weird, or not normal, or etc... Not conclusive but there is a good chance - lets not discount it.. There is always potential

As I've mentioned, "NT" people are just as capable of doing these acts, as well, but there is always a motive. The motives need to be analyzed



en_una_isla
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21 Nov 2006, 6:15 pm

Every once in a while when I hear of a school shooting, I see something in the story that makes me think "aspie." The more recent Montreal shooting, no, I didn't get that sense, but the one before that, where the guy singled out the women in an engineering school and shot them, yes, I got that sense. I got that sense from one of the Columbine shooters too. I agree with Corvus but I wouldn't say the majority are aspie, but I do believe there have been some.



Kahazidhea
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21 Nov 2006, 6:36 pm

He could have possibly had Anti-social personality disorder, which would explain his solitary behavior.


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en_una_isla
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21 Nov 2006, 6:55 pm

I watched part of a home video the more recent montreal shooter made of himself; in it he was really mugging for the camera and making steady eye contact with the lense; his body language didn't seem awkward at all, either. So as an armchair psychologist, I would say sociopath/ antisocial personality disorder would fit him better than AS would.



ion
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21 Nov 2006, 7:02 pm

There were times when I wanted to shoot up the school.
I don't see how AS kids would be less apt to do something like that if given the chance.
They more often have a reason.

But on the other hand, it's the underlying attitudes and treatment towards these kids that make them snap, sooner rather than later if they're mentally unstable, and it is a treatment that I wouldn't be surprised generally thrives in the neurotypical groups.



SteveK
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21 Nov 2006, 7:33 pm

Corvus,

I wasn't 100% discounting it, but look at Goth and vampirism! BOTH tend to be loners to the general population, and BOTH would be called WIERD!! ! Yet thier whole society, for want of another word, is something any aspie should be totally against.

Steve