Aspergers Subtypes --The Rationale-Dependent Aspergers Child

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zette
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24 Jun 2012, 3:42 pm

Thought this might be of interest to some here...

The Rationale-Dependent Aspergers Child

Here's the start of the article:

Quote:
“My daughter has to analyze and argue over every house rule my husband and I come up with before she decides to finally obey that particular rule. Is this common for children with Aspergers, and is there any way to get her to be more agreeable without such lengthy explanations and arguments?”

What if I told you that your daughter may be exhibiting noncompliance for a good reason? Some children and teens with Aspergers (High-Functioning Autism) are simply not comfortable with things that don’t make sense to them. These children, who are “rationale-dependent,” are largely focused on logic. They need to know the reasons for the rules in order to avoid both confusion and anxiety.



Sharkgirl
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24 Jun 2012, 3:56 pm

This is very interesting can you please post a link or cite the reference so I can read the whole article.
Thanks


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Eureka-C
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24 Jun 2012, 4:26 pm

The title is a link, just hover your mouse over it and it should change, then click on it.



MMJMOM
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25 Jun 2012, 5:56 am

no link...it just takes me back to this thread!


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arithmancer
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27 Jun 2012, 8:54 pm

Hmm, the link works for me... here is the URL:

http://www.myaspergerschild.com/2012/06 ... child.html

And yup, this type is very familiar to me! :lol: Coming up with logical, evidence-based explanations for all things in life keeps me on my toes...



cubedemon6073
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03 Jul 2012, 9:36 pm

This is so me. As you see on these boards I ask tons of questions. If the rule does not make any logical sense I literally can't follow it. Something inside me resists until I get the logical reasoning behind it. Don't ever use the phrase "because I said so." I will become even more rigid and more stubborn and may have a melt down. I'm working on becoming more flexible but it's difficult.



Rascal77s
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04 Jul 2012, 1:37 am

I'm almost 40 and I'm still like this. When I was a child my parents often imposed rules without explaining them. It would be 30 minutes of me asking "why?" and getting back "Because.". Didn't take long to trigger a meltdown, and my meltdowns were BAD. Later on my parents got divorced and my mom decided to go the 'tough love' route that was so popular at the time. Mind you nobody had even heard of AS back then. But it just caused more of the same, why-because. Big mistake. Today I have better self control but it's still almost impossible for me to follow a rule without understanding it and agreeing with it. There's just something about rules without logic that makes me feel out of synch with the world, it disrupts my order, and it's very irritating. I can imagine that some kids could be mistakenly thought of AsPD because of this, but for me the underlying reasons were completely different though the results were similar. I've known these things about myself for years before being diagnosed with AS. It was interesting to find out how common this is in people on WP, as I've noticed in various posts on the general forum, in the months that I've been a member.



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04 Jul 2012, 1:54 am

I asked my high school maths teacher On several occasions seriously why do we need to learn maths. I was told repeatedly that its important for later on in life. I kept asking for more clarification around this and the teacher was angry with me for being insolent. In the end I was told that it was so we could be able to add and subtract to buy things when shopping and do budgets. I figured I already knew how to add subtract, multiply and other basics so I stopped bothering to do any work in class or homework for maths I felt my mental energy could be better spent on other more useful things.


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JsDad183
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04 Jul 2012, 7:23 am

I came to this forum initially trying to figure out how my daughter was processing information because I have concerns. The more I am around here, the more traits I see in myself as having HFA or Asp. My career allows me to basically follow intricate wiring diagrams and deengineer cars with hard to find problems. I guess I just found a niche in life that allows my brain to work really deeply. At 38, I still find myself having what is referred to as a "meltdown", when I'm interrupted trying to complete a task. Logic is what we base our entire existence around. It's just sad we have to title people in a negative way when they think a little deeper than mainstream population.



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04 Jul 2012, 8:58 am

This sounds a lot like me. I've been diagnosed with PDD NOS and self-diagnosed with Newson Syndrome (Pathological Demand Avoidance) because other people trying to control me sets off anxiety in me. Hearing that they have a logical reason for the rule helps me feel less anxious, because if they generally have good reasons for rules than if I need something changed for a good reason they'll probably do it. People with illogical rules make me feel terrified, and I react with defiance.



cubedemon6073
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04 Jul 2012, 11:52 am

Herein lies the problem. This clashes with American traditional cultural values. This man John Rosemond exemplifies what I am talking about. http://www.rosemond.com/ This is what we are dealing with. He is a christain conservative by the way.

Check out this video as well. http://www.rosemond.com/VAQ/vaq2m.htm

Here are the reasons he says.

1. You're not old enough. I would ask him. a. Why does age matter? b. Why am I not old enough? c. At what age, do I become old enough?

2. He says you may get hurt. How would I get hurt? Why would I get hurt?

3. There is not enough money. Why isn't there enough money? How much money would there have to be? Is there anyway I can earn the money myself?

4. There is not enough time. Why isn't there enough time? How much time would there have to be? Is there anyway we can make time?

5. We don't believe in that. Why don't we believe in that? What is the correct thing to believe in and why? Why is this wrong to believe in and why?

6. We don't like those kids. Why don't you like those kids? I thought Jesus loved everyone. Does Jesus not love these kids as well? I don't understand.

These are the type of questions and retorts I would give back. I would be relentless in my questioning until I obtained a solid understanding of what was going on.

Actually a while back I sent him a few questions and I never received a response back from him or his team.



postcards57
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04 Jul 2012, 3:06 pm

I found this article very helpful. Thank goodness I have realized that this is the best way to have a happy daughter--I think her meltdowns / tantrums were more upsetting than her non-compliance for me. One thing I've noticed is that if I can't easily explain why she has to do something, she probably doesn't have to. I have also learned to listen, really listen, to her counter-arguments or alternatives rather than feel defensive and trapped by own need to be consistent. I now go into the conversation assuming that there might be some challenges, but that I should see these as a desire to fully understand and integrate the rule or request rather than to undermine my authority, manipulate me, etc. And... (hard as it is to admit that I don't always know everything) she might be right! What is nice is that giving a short, clear answer in a calm, respectful tone, and listening to an answer, creates a great mood in the house. Obviously, this doesn't work as well when there is urgency, stress or a lot of emotion involved. We're still working on that.



cubedemon6073
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05 Jul 2012, 11:17 am

postcards57 wrote:
I found this article very helpful. Thank goodness I have realized that this is the best way to have a happy daughter--I think her meltdowns / tantrums were more upsetting than her non-compliance for me. One thing I've noticed is that if I can't easily explain why she has to do something, she probably doesn't have to. I have also learned to listen, really listen, to her counter-arguments or alternatives rather than feel defensive and trapped by own need to be consistent. I now go into the conversation assuming that there might be some challenges, but that I should see these as a desire to fully understand and integrate the rule or request rather than to undermine my authority, manipulate me, etc. And... (hard as it is to admit that I don't always know everything) she might be right! What is nice is that giving a short, clear answer in a calm, respectful tone, and listening to an answer, creates a great mood in the house. Obviously, this doesn't work as well when there is urgency, stress or a lot of emotion involved. We're still working on that.


postcards57, I don't understand. Are there people who challenge rules to undermine authority or to manipulate others. Why do they do that? I challenge rules to fully understand and integrate them myself. If I spot inconsistencies to someone's rules I will call them out on it.



Ettina
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05 Jul 2012, 11:35 am

Quote:
Are there people who challenge rules to undermine authority or to manipulate others. Why do they do that?


There certainly are.

For example, psychopaths tend to do this. They don't feel guilt or empathy, so they don't care about how their behavior affects others, which makes them quite selfish. Sometimes, they perceive a benefit to undermining authority (so that person can't stop them from doing what they want) or manipulating others (so the other person will do what they want).

That's just one example. People can also become cynical and make a conscious decision to be in it only for themselves, or they can develop a dislike of a certain authority figure and decide to undermine them even if their rules are good.



cubedemon6073
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05 Jul 2012, 12:02 pm

Ettina wrote:
Quote:
Are there people who challenge rules to undermine authority or to manipulate others. Why do they do that?


There certainly are.

For example, psychopaths tend to do this. They don't feel guilt or empathy, so they don't care about how their behavior affects others, which makes them quite selfish. Sometimes, they perceive a benefit to undermining authority (so that person can't stop them from doing what they want) or manipulating others (so the other person will do what they want).

That's just one example. People can also become cynical and make a conscious decision to be in it only for themselves, or they can develop a dislike of a certain authority figure and decide to undermine them even if their rules are good.


Ettina, if you don't mind will you help me by answering my question(s) in the structure-dependant post?