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Sweetleaf
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26 May 2015, 1:26 pm

Wow I am glad I spent the last 30 minutes typing well thought out posts to this necro-thread before realizing what it was. Also to the necromancer: Why?


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iliketrees
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26 May 2015, 1:28 pm

Sweetleaf wrote:
Wow I am glad I spent the last 30 minutes typing well thought out posts to this necro-thread before realizing what it was. Also to the necromancer: Why?

Well, let's hope it helps answer someone else's questions :)



Chris71186
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26 May 2015, 2:05 pm

iliketrees wrote:
Sweetleaf wrote:
Wow I am glad I spent the last 30 minutes typing well thought out posts to this necro-thread before realizing what it was. Also to the necromancer: Why?

Well, let's hope it helps answer someone else's questions :)



that's kind of what I'm thinking. No matter how old the thread, I'm sure someone out there has similar concerns.



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26 May 2015, 2:43 pm

The necromancer... yeah... necromancy... I do like wizards, and magic-spells, but only in movies or video-games... ...that stuff doesn't really exist in the material-world though.

Sweetleaf wrote:
Also to the necromancer: Why?


I wasn't about to create a new thread with the same title when a thread on it already existed. Also, I didn't even notice myself that the dates were so disparate until someone point it out, but it doesn't change the fact that I've run into so much god-damn ignorance on public-beliefs & perceptions regarding so-called chemical-imbalances (a myth) that, regardless of whether this thread originally existed from a year or two or even ten years ago, the content & thread-title is still relevant due to a public-STAGNATION in knowledge regarding the "truthfulness" related to the Psychiatric-Industry.

You have no idea how many zombies/sheeple STILL seem to get their "scientific-education" from the TELEVISION rather than doing any actual homework (under-lined as a hyper-link to actual science regarding so-called chemical-imbalances)...

You can see some of my other threads and the debacles (within another forums) that I've had over here and here and here...


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26 May 2015, 4:54 pm

I'm sorry for the (partially) off topic, but you really triggered this...
The DSM decided that since May 2015 (If I remember well) Asperger...does not exist. In the sense that there is only one category for the all Austims Spectrum Disorders, no subcategories anymore. Or probably there are still distinctions between high functioning and low functioning autism. Doesn't matter, it's not the point. The point is: Asperger does not exists.
Now.
Since I study philosophy and I can't keep from focusing on ambiguities, I had fun reflecting on the following puzzle.

(1) I am Asperger [uttered after a diagnose < 2015]
(2) No one stop being Asperger [in the sense, you can't ''heal'' from AS]
(3) Asperger does not exists [DSM 2015]
(4) I cannot be Asperger
(5) But (1) is true at the moment of utterance
(5) For (2), (1) should be true at any time until I exist.
(6) Therefore, (1) is true contradiction! (4)&(6) are mutually incompatible!

okay...I am (over)tired and I still have work to do...

...

Have fun if you like this kind of puzzles!



ASPartOfMe
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26 May 2015, 8:03 pm

Afasia wrote:
I'm sorry for the (partially) off topic, but you really triggered this...
The DSM decided that since May 2015 (If I remember well) Asperger...does not exist. In the sense that there is only one category for the all Austims Spectrum Disorders, no subcategories anymore. Or probably there are still distinctions between high functioning and low functioning autism. Doesn't matter, it's not the point. The point is: Asperger does not exists.
Now.
Since I study philosophy and I can't keep from focusing on ambiguities, I had fun reflecting on the following puzzle.

(1) I am Asperger [uttered after a diagnose < 2015]
(2) No one stop being Asperger [in the sense, you can't ''heal'' from AS]
(3) Asperger does not exists [DSM 2015]
(4) I cannot be Asperger
(5) But (1) is true at the moment of utterance
(5) For (2), (1) should be true at any time until I exist.
(6) Therefore, (1) is true contradiction! (4)&(6) are mutually incompatible!

okay...I am (over)tired and I still have work to do...

...

Have fun if you like this kind of puzzles!


Unlike Aspergers Disorder which was an officials diagnoses from 1994-2013 in the DSM IV and killed off (ahem subsumed) High Functioning Autism and Low Functioning Autism have never been an official diagnosis. As of now High Functioning Autism, Low Functioning Autism, Mild Autism, Severe Autism, Classic Autism, Kanner's Syndrome and Aspergers Syndrome are colloquial terms which people use as they please although there are some common meanings that have evolved. Under the DSM 5 those that were diagnosed with Aspergers Disorder under the DSM IV were supposed to keep their diagnosis under the name Autism Spectrum Disorder


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Chris71186
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26 May 2015, 8:37 pm

Afasia wrote:
I'm sorry for the (partially) off topic, but you really triggered this...
The DSM decided that since May 2015 (If I remember well) Asperger...does not exist. In the sense that there is only one category for the all Austims Spectrum Disorders, no subcategories anymore. Or probably there are still distinctions between high functioning and low functioning autism. Doesn't matter, it's not the point. The point is: Asperger does not exists.
Now.
Since I study philosophy and I can't keep from focusing on ambiguities, I had fun reflecting on the following puzzle.

(1) I am Asperger [uttered after a diagnose < 2015]
(2) No one stop being Asperger [in the sense, you can't ''heal'' from AS]
(3) Asperger does not exists [DSM 2015]
(4) I cannot be Asperger
(5) But (1) is true at the moment of utterance
(5) For (2), (1) should be true at any time until I exist.
(6) Therefore, (1) is true contradiction! (4)&(6) are mutually incompatible!

okay...I am (over)tired and I still have work to do...

...

Have fun if you like this kind of puzzles!


are you serious?? I can't really call myself "high functioning autistic" and I'm certainly not normal..... guess I'm back to just being weird.



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26 May 2015, 9:30 pm

bizboy1 wrote:
That's what my psychiatrist said today when I asked him if he thinks I have Asperger's. He said there were like 126 different genotypes for it and basically said he doesn't believe in it. I've been diagnosed but I'm not sure if I have it. I'm having a hard time dealing with my anxiety already and feel even more confused about Asperger's. Should I be offended by this? What do you guys think? Is he right? Is Asperger's just an amalgamation of different diagnoses? I'm not extreme by any means. I probably had very mild Asperger's before I got my panic disorder. Now it's probably mild or moderate.

I've only read your initial post on this and I can tell you right now, that whoever you're seeing, is clearly not specialized in the field of Autistic Spectrum Disorders. Asperger's has never been a 'catch-all' diagnosis any more than other forms of autism (like the kind most people know about) are.
I would be offended by the notion, personally, because my entire life I've struggled with Asperger's and everything that goes with it. To be told that asperger's doesn't exist, essentially also is being told that those struggles don't exist, and that's no different than being called a liar and/or a 'manipulator'.
I've been officially diagnosed by a specialist, if anyone were to argue that diagnosis is false or that the diagnosis itself is of something that doesn't exist, then I'd call up my diagnostic doctor and let the two argue about it.

My advice to you, is simply to find an expert that deal with the autistic spectrum, and talk to them about the diagnosis/condition, because they're the only ones that you're likely to find that will accept the reality that Asperger's does indeed exist.


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26 May 2015, 9:31 pm

Be offended. Be very, VERY offended.



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26 May 2015, 10:53 pm

For those who do not believe Asperger exist, you got multiple options:

1. If you do not believe it exists because of DSMV, fine then.
2. If you believe it is just another word for HFA, fine then even though I'd disagree.
3. If you believe autism doesn't exist, why the f*** are you even here? No one wants to listen to your conspiracy crap anyways.



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30 Oct 2015, 2:30 am

NO, he was not an idiot.

Even the writers of DSMs don't agree what is AS.



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30 Oct 2015, 2:39 am

Let me revive this thread by these posts I posted in the other thread:

The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
YippySkippy wrote:
Sometimes people think they're being supportive by disagreeing with your diagnosis. If you said you got a bad haircut, for example, people might say, "No, it looks fine, really!" to make you feel better. Some people think the same thing applies for responding to an autism disclosure.
That said, there's a difference between a casual acquaintance saying this and a medical professional. I wouldn't continue seeing a doctor who laughed at an autism diagnosis. Or any diagnosis, really. That's just unprofessional.


AS does not have a known molecular etiology.

Rett syndrome has a known molecular etiology: mutations in the gene MECP2 located on the X chromosome.

William's syndrome has a known molecular etiology: deletion of about 26 genes from the long arm of chromosome 7

AS has no such clear genetic definition (only theories), it is a psychiatric diagnosis only, and many doctors don't view psychiatry as real medicine, the psychiatry field is generally not taken seriously nor respected much by the medical doctors, including neurologists (and no, not only the Scientologists).

AS and ADHD will always be seen this way (as not serious conditions, especially by the non-psychiatrist medical body) until the biologists find the real tangible genetic/biological causes, if there's any, and become medical diagnoses - like how it happened to Rett Syndrome, which was removed from DSM (was lumped under Autism) after discovering its real cause.



The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MsBehaviour wrote:
Ellykeeling wrote:
I don't think he actually has a blooming clue about how he feels about it which is why he's trying to trivialise it.


Hi Ellykeeling. Give him time to adjust, as I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment above.

I also had family react badly and reject my diagnosis, mainly I think through guilt for the the times they unknowingly made my life harder. I've lost count of the 'you can't be autistic because you're too <successful/married/intelligent (insert assumption here)>. I usually reply, 'on a bad day when I'm spinning around in circles flapping you'll know I'm on the spectrum, but thanks.'

Also please change your GP ASAP. She is obviously too ignorant to be providing you with healthcare and the support you need right now. I also get quite useless once a month (clumsy & stuttery), it's not too bad as long as people keep away from me in the kitchen :ninja:

It gets easiest once you know *Why* you're reacting in certain ways, and you can start to build up a toolkit to deal with different situations.

MsB



Many GPs don't believe in psychiatric diagnoses - many medical doctors don't view psychiatry as real medicine and even as real science. Sorry, but this is a fact of the general opinion of medical doctors.

Medical doctors deal with diagnoses of diseases/syndromes that exist in their medical books only, diseases/disorders which had been proved by biologists and scientists - and therefore defined biologically.

AS is only a psychiatric diagnosis studied only by psychiatrists, it doesn't exist in the medical books studied by Med students, it has no biological definition at all. The AS diagnosis is just a list of behaviors like most psychiatric diagnoses.

This has nothing to do with the OP's gender btw - this general views of medical doctors (and many people) on AS will not change anytime soon.... UNTIL the biological cause of AS is determined and the diagnosis moved to medical books.



The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
MsBehaviour wrote:
Ellykeeling wrote:
I don't think he actually has a blooming clue about how he feels about it which is why he's trying to trivialise it.


Hi Ellykeeling. Give him time to adjust, as I think you hit the nail on the head with your comment above.

I also had family react badly and reject my diagnosis, mainly I think through guilt for the the times they unknowingly made my life harder. I've lost count of the 'you can't be autistic because you're too <successful/married/intelligent (insert assumption here)>. I usually reply, 'on a bad day when I'm spinning around in circles flapping you'll know I'm on the spectrum, but thanks.'

Also please change your GP ASAP. She is obviously too ignorant to be providing you with healthcare and the support you need right now. I also get quite useless once a month (clumsy & stuttery), it's not too bad as long as people keep away from me in the kitchen :ninja:

It gets easiest once you know *Why* you're reacting in certain ways, and you can start to build up a toolkit to deal with different situations.

MsB



Many GPs don't believe in psychiatric diagnoses - many medical doctors don't view psychiatry as real medicine and even as real science. Sorry, but this is a fact of the general opinion of medical doctors.

Medical doctors deal with diagnoses of diseases/syndromes that exist in their medical books only, diseases/disorders which had been proved by biologists and scientists - and therefore defined biologically.

AS is only a psychiatric diagnosis studied only by psychiatrists, it doesn't exist in the medical books studied by Med students, it has no biological definition at all. The AS diagnosis is just a list of behaviors like most psychiatric diagnoses.

This has nothing to do with the OP's gender btw - this general views of medical doctors (and many people) on AS will not change anytime soon.... UNTIL the biological cause of AS is determined and the diagnosis moved to medical books.




underwater wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
If even elite psychiatrists can't agree what's AS then how do you expect medical doctors to believe it and take it seriously?


This is why I can't take the endless professional diagnosis versus self-dagnosis debates seriously.

I'd say the best thing to do is to see if information about AS is useful to you - if it helps in your self-understanding, communication with others, planning your life and raising your kids.

I think it is very hard to convince someone of what is going on inside your head unless they are already sympathetic to you and willing to listen in the first place. Family and friends can have a million different reasons for denial.

I haven't told anyone of my suspicions other than my husband. The way I reason, they should all respect me anyway, diagnosis or no. I give out little bits of information. I told my new neighbor not to be modest, that if she tells me she does not want more coffee, I will assume she doesn't want more coffee, and that I am not good with hints. She just doesn't know quite how bad I am with hints.



ASPartOfMe wrote:
The_Face_of_Boo wrote:
I stumbled on a interesting article - reminding me of this thread:

http://www.npr.org/2010/12/29/132407384 ... cant-agree

So even psychiatrists can't agree.

Allen Frances said that "psychiatric diagnosis still relies exclusively on fallible subjective judgments rather than objective biological tests"

Do you know who is Allen Frances? He is the guy who introduced AS into DSM 4- and ironically, he is the guy who worked hard to remove it from DSM 5. Don't believe the news stories that AS was simply merged with ASD in DSM5 - it was removed because the ones who put it in the first place, now consensually think it was too unscientific and went too out of control- and they wanted to apply ASD only on the obvious severe cases.



I never believed it was simply merged and I never believed it was eliminated for purely scientific reasons. As implied in your link the costs of rapidly increasing diagnoses to the school districts and insurence companies were a factor. So bacisically they screwed it up royally in the DSM IV and instead of making it better they gave up and removed it all together.

As we now know from Steve Silberman's Neurotribes book the image of Aspergers as socially ackward genius has its roots in a decision made by Hans Asperger. He was trying to save people from Nazi Eugenics and to do that he used the example of his 4 highest functioning patients to prove autistics can be useful members of society in order to prevent Autistics from bieng killed. His decision was a neccesary evil. That we still are bedeviled by the stereotype some 70 years later is not his fault.

In 1994 the Aspergers becomes a seperate diagnoses even though all concerned belive it is part of the Autism Spectrum. Diagnoses rates exploded. A lot of people who would have been missed are picked up and many who went well into adulthood with mis or non diagnosis find out why things happened the way they did and that a lot of bad things that happened to them was not thier fault. A few people take things to far and become Aspie supremacists. Based on a feeling, not scientific studies the people who added Aspergers decide there is massive gaming of the system by parents, "special snowflakes" getting incorrect diagnosis etc. These explanations proved popular with parents dealing with severely autistic offspring,taxpayers and school districts stressed by the worst economy since the 1930's and who are watching. TV portrayals of charactors described as having Aspergers".

The removal of Aspergers provides official confirmation for those that believe the stereotypes and those that believe that Aspergers was never real, and maybe those that believe that most that identify as Aspie must be ablelist against other Autistics. The actual supremiciststs who wanted Aspergers out of the DSM precisely because they did not want to be associated with other autistics got their wish while we have to deal with the stereotypes.

Now Alex is trying to make this site less negative. When I started in 2013 it was less negative, people while far from brushing off difficulties were generally more positive about AS. In 2014 the year after the new DSM came out the Autism is a curse type posts skyrocketed. There were simultaneous multiple posts and threads about massive over diagnosis, wannabes and attacking people calling Aspies as a group as bieng elitist. That died out for awhile but has come back a bit lately. Simultaneous occurrences does not prove causation. That bieng said I do believe there are links between the DSM mishandling of Asperpers and the sometimes toxic and negative post we observe here at WP

Oops, I got so hyper focused on my post I forgot I was in the women's section. The anti "over diagnosis" backlash is likely hurting females because as last group recognized the clinicians who think the spectrum has been expanded to much are probably not or mis diagnosing women even more then they would other groups. It makes women more likely to hear from friends and relatives that thier suspicions or diagnosis are really character flaws such as drama queen.



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30 Oct 2015, 2:46 am

Aniihya wrote:
For those who do not believe Asperger exist, you got multiple options:

1. If you do not believe it exists because of DSMV, fine then.
2. If you believe it is just another word for HFA, fine then even though I'd disagree.
3. If you believe autism doesn't exist, why the f*** are you even here? No one wants to listen to your conspiracy crap anyways.


4. Some were used to believe in its existence for so long, and lost 'faith' in it.



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30 Oct 2015, 2:48 am

To have any sort of scientific credibility, a person has to go far beyond their personal belief system. Did this person get his degree off the internet perhaps? Might as well have done.



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30 Oct 2015, 1:26 pm

Oh please. Is he an older doctor, by any chance? I am sure this is by no means universal, but it seems to me, at least with the doctors we've had, that it's the oldsters who think "all these maladies" are fake (ADHD, LDs, ASD, etc.). Generally, they'll either hint or outright state that the parents just aren't disciplining and are all being lazy and the kids are "getting away with," you know, not fitting in, being bullied, sobbing over their homework, being in pain over sights and sounds, etc. (Because it's so much fun!)

My opinion: these doctors are annoyed because they figured they could stop learning after med school was done, so further, newer information really just pizzes them off.

(Although I'm sure it's not always an age thing, there are almost certainly young azzhats just as there are older azzhats in the medical community. Just giving my experience.)

We had one doctor who basically intimated that we should just give our child a good swat once in a while, that was going to sharpen him right up.

I wonder if he says that to parents of kids in wheelchairs, "Hey, take away dessert and there's nothing to stop you from giving her the good swat she needs. Make these changes I guarantee she'll stop being stubborn and will be walking all around the place toot-sweet. Stop letting her get away with acting paraplegic and she'll stop being paraplegic."

Or, "You know, once she realizes it's not getting her the attention she wants. Here's what I recommend: when she wants to eat a meal, put it up high and tell her, 'If you want dinner, come get it.'" You know, all the sorts of suggestions given for "tough loving" kids out of autism and learning disabilities. (For example, I was once advised - not by a doctor, though, this was by an OT - to not let my practically non-verbal child have his snack until he "at least tried" to say the word. He WAS "at least trying," I mean my God. Apparently I was supposed to starve my child into speaking and into not being autistic anymore.)



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30 Oct 2015, 1:50 pm

Chris71186 wrote:
Afasia wrote:
I'm sorry for the (partially) off topic, but you really triggered this...
The DSM decided that since May 2015 (If I remember well) Asperger...does not exist. In the sense that there is only one category for the all Austims Spectrum Disorders, no subcategories anymore. Or probably there are still distinctions between high functioning and low functioning autism. Doesn't matter, it's not the point. The point is: Asperger does not exists.
Now.
Since I study philosophy and I can't keep from focusing on ambiguities, I had fun reflecting on the following puzzle.

(1) I am Asperger [uttered after a diagnose < 2015]
(2) No one stop being Asperger [in the sense, you can't ''heal'' from AS]
(3) Asperger does not exists [DSM 2015]
(4) I cannot be Asperger
(5) But (1) is true at the moment of utterance
(5) For (2), (1) should be true at any time until I exist.
(6) Therefore, (1) is true contradiction! (4)&(6) are mutually incompatible!

okay...I am (over)tired and I still have work to do...

...

Have fun if you like this kind of puzzles!


are you serious?? I can't really call myself "high functioning autistic" and I'm certainly not normal..... guess I'm back to just being weird.

I personally have been weird all my life.
Saying that Asperger's doesn't exist is just a matter of semantics. Something is going on that the medical profession will put some kind of label on.
I also don't like the HFA label, but then again too, I don't like any kind of label.


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