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Ho Chi Minh was a
Hero! 38%  38%  [ 6 ]
Villain! 31%  31%  [ 5 ]
Just display the results 31%  31%  [ 5 ]
Total votes : 16

ruveyn
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22 Jul 2012, 9:09 am

outofplace wrote:
As to the original question, the answer is both. Heroes are almost always contextual. Thus, to someone who wanted his views, he was a hero. To someone opposed he most likely would have been a villain.


His side won. Therefore he is a Hero.

ruveyn



ArrantPariah
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22 Jul 2012, 10:31 am

ruveyn wrote:
outofplace wrote:
As to the original question, the answer is both. Heroes are almost always contextual. Thus, to someone who wanted his views, he was a hero. To someone opposed he most likely would have been a villain.


His side won. Therefore he is a Hero.

ruveyn


Very good point indeed. If Vietnam had remained part of French Indochina, then de Gaulle or Petain would be the hero, and Uncle Ho the goat.



outofplace
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23 Jul 2012, 12:51 am

ArrantPariah wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
outofplace wrote:
As to the original question, the answer is both. Heroes are almost always contextual. Thus, to someone who wanted his views, he was a hero. To someone opposed he most likely would have been a villain.


His side won. Therefore he is a Hero.

ruveyn


Very good point indeed. If Vietnam had remained part of French Indochina, then de Gaulle or Petain would be the hero, and Uncle Ho the goat.


Well, in the sense that the victor writes the history then yes, you are right. However, I was referring to an individual standpoint in which case opinion is determined by the individual's feelings on the matter and not history.


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ArrantPariah
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23 Jul 2012, 7:22 am

outofplace wrote:
ArrantPariah wrote:
ruveyn wrote:
outofplace wrote:
As to the original question, the answer is both. Heroes are almost always contextual. Thus, to someone who wanted his views, he was a hero. To someone opposed he most likely would have been a villain.


His side won. Therefore he is a Hero.

ruveyn


Very good point indeed. If Vietnam had remained part of French Indochina, then de Gaulle or Petain would be the hero, and Uncle Ho the goat.


Well, in the sense that the victor writes the history then yes, you are right. However, I was referring to an individual standpoint in which case opinion is determined by the individual's feelings on the matter and not history.


Well, attitudes in Vietnam may eventually change. Perhaps Ho Chi Minh City will go back to being called Saigon. Maybe his mausoleum will be demolished.



AudaciousLarue
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24 Jul 2012, 12:01 pm

It's complex. On one hand he being a Marxist-Leninist made him believe strongly in the right of national self-determination[in his case, Vietnam]. At the time, Vietnam was under French rule, being as it was a French colony.

Kennedy once remarked, according to They Marched Into Sunlight,(I highly recommend it, and besides it won the Pulitzer prize) that he valued Vietnam only as a "resource puppet" in relation to the United States.

Ho Chi Mihn at the very least wanted an independent Vietnam that could put itself on equal footing in the world, and that wouldn't have to bow before any "master"-be they French or American.

Being a 20th-century communist politician, he happened to be a product-of-his-time: a proponent of the single-party state model, collectivization, etc.

It's temping to judge the man based around 21st-century notions of multiparty, representative democracy.

No-he didn't usher in "democracy"(in our modern, narrow sense of the word). He undoubtedly ruled a dictatorship.

Yes-he ushered in full independence for Vietnam, his primary goal.

It would be naive to suggest that all of he was "evil" simply for not ushering in a wave of neo-liberal democracy.

Likewise, it would be naive to suggest that he was "good" for compromising democracy in the interest of maintaining his nation's independence.

Should he be revered? Yes and no.

Throughout history, we see leaders whom are both "good" and "bad." I think Ho Chi Mihn falls somewhere between those two black-and-white concepts.



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24 Jul 2012, 2:40 pm

Our politicians used to propound their "Domino Theory"

Image

Their excuse for entering the war in Vietnam was to "contain communism." If South Vietnam fell, then eventually the whole world would turn communist, and never look back.

Which must mean that they felt that communism had a very strong attraction for people.



AudaciousLarue
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24 Jul 2012, 8:15 pm

Rather then classify people as simply "good" or "evil," I find it better to talk about the individual person's traits in relation to other people, their reasons for doing what they did for better or for worse, etc.



aSKperger
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25 Jul 2012, 5:22 am

Vo Nguyen Giap was an admirable "hero"



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02 Aug 2012, 10:07 pm

In this case, neither. Although certainly more hero than villain.



LennytheWicked
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03 Aug 2012, 6:31 am

To me he seemed well-intentioned, but given the state of Vietnam it may have been better for the people to remain colonized by the French and receive similar benefits to those in the Dominican Republic. [Minh himself received a scholarship and studied in France.]



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03 Aug 2012, 8:55 am

What benefits do Dominican Republicans get?