Trouble translating thoughts into words

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chris5000
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15 Aug 2012, 9:23 pm

Mmuffinn wrote:
Logicalmom wrote:
Sounds awfully familiar.

I don't know if it goes like this for you:

I have described writing my essays thus : I can see my whole essay - I have a wonderful composition in my mind, it writes itself and grows and morphs with my thoughts - but each word is a physical extraction from my body - like pulling tooth by tooth. Why it is so hard? Yet, I love essays - I love research, I love engaging with theorists. I really do 'put my myself into my work' with this extraction. I could just write blah-blah good enough, I can write amply and loosely - I mean to say the way I really want to say it. I also drown in details - maybe that does not help. My thoughts 'bottleneck' - and they have no elbow room to pass each other - brain lock - the passage from mind to lips or pen is a tough journey at times and is not helped by the impatience and judgment of others. I hate having to write a short essay and leave out information and ideas that I think shortchange the concepts I have in mind. What to leave out? Fortunately my grades are excellent - but - it hurts. Hurts so good - hurts so bad.

Speaking - I do lock up - or I cannot get to what I really want to say and feel shorted. I mumble, bumble, I acquiesce because I don't know how to be understood. I have just told people English is my second language - and it is not really - and consequently I insult or confuse people. I don't know what to do. Conversely - I miss chunks of what people say - blah, blah, blah - wha-wha-wha - and pluck the highlights for context. Smile - whoops, erase smile quick - nod, and interject with 'hhhmmmm' here and 'hm' there. In class, I am a rabid hand-note taker or I will not hold everything I need - I have messy, messy shorthand and I fly. I copy out the notes clearly later and that is how I study. In this manner, I can quote profs verbatim.

LM


^This is almost exactly me! I have so much difficulty with essays even though I love researching and can thoroughly understand the topic. I have it laid out in my head perfectly, but I can't get it on the paper! I have difficulty with speaking as well, but I seem to get around that by having people ask me questions as I can seem to find my thoughts when prompted. I have tried to explain my difficulty in writing essays to instructors and the disability specialist at my college, but nobody has ever really understood. They think I am either lazy or don't understand the format of an essay because I can answer any question about the subject I was supposed to write about, but my writing has the interest and style of a 10 year old's. I often get terrible marks on essays, but I make up for it with everything else. I might get 40 or 50 on a paper, but I get 90s on everything else in the course. It caused me to drop out of nursing because I had a course that was 100% essays (including the final exam) and I failed the course twice, which was terribly embarrassing and discouraging! While I am sorry that you also experience difficulty with this, I feel relieved to know it isn't just me!


I have the very same problem. It also made me drop out of collage. So many classes had essays that counted to a large portion of the grade. even the mandatory orientation class was mostly essays.



Valkyrie2012
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16 Aug 2012, 3:26 am

lol... I have this issue too.. it made me "lol" because recently I was telling my sister that it is so frustrating to know something and not know the words to explain it... her answer?

That is because you actually don't know as much as you think you do...

Ouch.

No matter how much I tried to tell her I am smarter than I appear... nope she wasn't having any of that lol... "There is more than one type of intelligence"

I have to read something dozens of times to make it stick... and even then I have to refer back to it, even while trying to tell someone something I know. It is so frustrating. I can't even remember something I "just" said... boy can that one get you into a pickle....



nrau
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16 Aug 2012, 6:34 am

It's not autistic, it's connected to personality disorders caused by stress.



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16 Aug 2012, 8:31 am

Jtuk wrote:
In some of the books I've read on Autism, it's said that Speech Therapy can help with this. Speech Therapy is commonly associated with poor pronounciation and getting verbal, but they can help with more advanced stuff such as organising your thoughts.

Do you have the same problems with friends / relatives / known people or does this just show up in school or work?

Jason.


Hi

I havent heard of this before, I guess it would be more tailored towards young kids, early diagnosis is a real blessing for AS. Then they get the help they need before its almost "too late".

I also have the same issues in every aspect of my life, even when talking/ trying to relay information about something I know off by heart kind of thing. It's pretty frustrating at times, and Im worried its going to affect work I do at University.



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16 Aug 2012, 8:33 am

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
I think that you may be looking for some sort of Augmentative and Alternative Communication Device.

I hope this helps.

http://www.abilityhub.com/aac/aac-devices.htm

TheSunAlsoRises


Thanks for the link. I checked it out, and there's a bit of reading to do on that site, so I'll take a look and try to go through it. Do you know of any specific product on the site which may help?



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16 Aug 2012, 8:36 am

Logicalmom wrote:
Sounds awfully familiar.

I don't know if it goes like this for you:

I have described writing my essays thus : I can see my whole essay - I have a wonderful composition in my mind, it writes itself and grows and morphs with my thoughts - but each word is a physical extraction from my body - like pulling tooth by tooth. Why it is so hard? Yet, I love essays - I love research, I love engaging with theorists. I really do 'put my myself into my work' with this extraction. I could just write blah-blah good enough, I can write amply and loosely - I mean to say the way I really want to say it. I also drown in details - maybe that does not help. My thoughts 'bottleneck' - and they have no elbow room to pass each other - brain lock - the passage from mind to lips or pen is a tough journey at times and is not helped by the impatience and judgment of others. I hate having to write a short essay and leave out information and ideas that I think shortchange the concepts I have in mind. What to leave out? Fortunately my grades are excellent - but - it hurts. Hurts so good - hurts so bad.

Speaking - I do lock up - or I cannot get to what I really want to say and feel shorted. I mumble, bumble, I acquiesce because I don't know how to be understood. I have just told people English is my second language - and it is not really - and consequently I insult or confuse people. I don't know what to do. Conversely - I miss chunks of what people say - blah, blah, blah - wha-wha-wha - and pluck the highlights for context. Smile - whoops, erase smile quick - nod, and interject with 'hhhmmmm' here and 'hm' there. In class, I am a rabid hand-note taker or I will not hold everything I need - I have messy, messy shorthand and I fly. I copy out the notes clearly later and that is how I study. In this manner, I can quote profs verbatim.

For putting my thoughts to writing: the 'right for the time' spot helps - I have sat in a dry bathtub - soft light, no noise - curtain pulled, door closed - I have hidden in this manner to write. My camera helps - it calms me down through and through. I can shut the world out aside from one beautiful subject in my lens. Painting is nice - mucking in colors - it loosens my ideas - too much at times - LOL. I do like my computer's voice recognition - I get into a comfortable space where I won't be interrupted and I can just 'drift' out my thoughts (although there are corrections to make later - oh well) - I also have a digital tape recorder. A long walk is such a great place to think freely - so, the recorder on hand is a bonus in formulating my ideas.

Ha - I also have discovered the joy of creating graphic novels - sometimes you just really do have to 'draw a picture' :0)

LM


Pretty much exactly the same! It's always a struggle, and thanks for sharing your story also. I'm sitting here now trying to think of what to write in response, and I cant think of the right words to say! typical. lol.



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16 Aug 2012, 8:40 am

nrau wrote:
It's not autistic, it's connected to personality disorders caused by stress.


I dont know if that's correct too much you know.. I think if you take a look at anyone with AS, you'd find that they have varying degrees of this same problem. I have a GF with AS too, and she also has the same problem, and she's not got any personality disorders. Also she'd had a stable childhood and upbringing type of thing too, so I dont think it to be anything connected to personality disorders at all.. I think its linked to the way our brains let us access information..

Like.. we cant get the thoughts out of our heads into words.. and... we cant get words into thoughts into our heads.. dont know why exactly it happens, but Im guessing its to do with the brain and the way it accesses and uses information differently to NT's type thing.



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16 Aug 2012, 8:45 am

Valkyrie2012 wrote:
lol... I have this issue too.. it made me "lol" because recently I was telling my sister that it is so frustrating to know something and not know the words to explain it... her answer?

That is because you actually don't know as much as you think you do...

Ouch.

No matter how much I tried to tell her I am smarter than I appear... nope she wasn't having any of that lol... "There is more than one type of intelligence"

I have to read something dozens of times to make it stick... and even then I have to refer back to it, even while trying to tell someone something I know. It is so frustrating. I can't even remember something I "just" said... boy can that one get you into a pickle....


I also do this! No one says that I dont know what I mean.. but I can tell that's what theyre thinking!

Also have the same problem with remembering what I just said/was going to say/did and it gets really frustrating. It happens to even people without AS occasionally, but when its happening over and over, it gets bothersome and perhaps technology will help us "bridge that gap" so that we can augment what we want to say through it some day! I sort of dream of being able to express myself properly. I used to be a musician, went to uni to study music, and I realized that I just wasnt able to express myself in a way which came across well.. so now Im going to study a science based subject instead with a little bit of art. lol. Trying to incorporate both worlds kind of thing.



nrau
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16 Aug 2012, 9:56 am

Rocker_C wrote:
nrau wrote:
It's not autistic, it's connected to personality disorders caused by stress.


I dont know if that's correct too much you know.. I think if you take a look at anyone with AS, you'd find that they have varying degrees of this same problem. I have a GF with AS too, and she also has the same problem, and she's not got any personality disorders. Also she'd had a stable childhood and upbringing type of thing too, so I dont think it to be anything connected to personality disorders at all.. I think its linked to the way our brains let us access information..

Like.. we cant get the thoughts out of our heads into words.. and... we cant get words into thoughts into our heads.. dont know why exactly it happens, but Im guessing its to do with the brain and the way it accesses and uses information differently to NT's type thing.


Well, it's obvious that language is limited and most of the times we can only express the general idea behind our thoughts with mere words. Are you sure you're not exaggerating the problem?
Also, I have a feeling that you tend to explain every little thing with "IM DIFFERENT!!111AUTISM : D ! !!1111". Useless. To do this is to give up on thinking. Only because you have autism doesn't mean you are not human-you are still prone to having the same problems and issues the other people do, only because you have autism doesn't mean these problems are connect to the ASD,



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16 Aug 2012, 11:05 am

nrau wrote:
Rocker_C wrote:
nrau wrote:
It's not autistic, it's connected to personality disorders caused by stress.


I dont know if that's correct too much you know.. I think if you take a look at anyone with AS, you'd find that they have varying degrees of this same problem. I have a GF with AS too, and she also has the same problem, and she's not got any personality disorders. Also she'd had a stable childhood and upbringing type of thing too, so I dont think it to be anything connected to personality disorders at all.. I think its linked to the way our brains let us access information..

Like.. we cant get the thoughts out of our heads into words.. and... we cant get words into thoughts into our heads.. dont know why exactly it happens, but Im guessing its to do with the brain and the way it accesses and uses information differently to NT's type thing.


Well, it's obvious that language is limited and most of the times we can only express the general idea behind our thoughts with mere words. Are you sure you're not exaggerating the problem?
Also, I have a feeling that you tend to explain every little thing with "IM DIFFERENT! !111AUTISM : D ! !!1111". Useless. To do this is to give up on thinking. Only because you have autism doesn't mean you are not human-you are still prone to having the same problems and issues the other people do, only because you have autism doesn't mean these problems are connect to the ASD,


Language is not limited.. that's why MOST people with an ASD have an above average intelligence and are well endowed with their grammar. But.. it is to do with accessing that information at times that hinders people with AS.

I was diagnosed with AS, and no I don't go around blaming all of my differences on it. Why would I explain them like that? I'm intelligent enough to understand we all have unique quirks and skills. But try to tell me or anyone else that people with AS don't have certain traits and behaviours. I don't know if you have AS or if you don't, but if you do, then you may have gone through a diagnosis.. which took a look at what behaviours you were exhibiting from a young age up to the day when you went for that interview with the specialist. So.. I mean.. Do you not you see too that people with AS have this problem? Its apparent from this topic thread that I'm NOT the only one, and that others are having the same problems in this sense. I know we all have our own problems, but I wasn't talking about everyone's differences.. I was talking on topic about how it seems this manifests in ASD's. There's even scientific proof through many studies if you would like me to give you examples? Take a look at Alexithymia and AS. That should show you the problems on one level, and demonstrates how people with AS may have this. Its a spectrum sure, but I wasn't saying everyone.. I was saying most.



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16 Aug 2012, 1:57 pm

Rocker_C wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
I think that you may be looking for some sort of Augmentative and Alternative Communication Device.

I hope this helps.

http://www.abilityhub.com/aac/aac-devices.htm

TheSunAlsoRises


Thanks for the link. I checked it out, and there's a bit of reading to do on that site, so I'll take a look and try to go through it. Do you know of any specific product on the site which may help?


The website that i gave you had broken links to the listed products, no pricing, etc.

Here is a much better website.

http://www.enablemart.com/Catalog/Augme ... munication

Once you pull it up, click on speech generating devices, Basic Communicators, Communication Software, or Picture Communicators. In fact, you might want to preview other categories.

The product information is short and concise.

It will depend on your specific needs and price range.


TheSunAlsoRises



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16 Aug 2012, 2:27 pm

TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
Rocker_C wrote:
TheSunAlsoRises wrote:
I think that you may be looking for some sort of Augmentative and Alternative Communication Device.

I hope this helps.

http://www.abilityhub.com/aac/aac-devices.htm

TheSunAlsoRises


Thanks for the link. I checked it out, and there's a bit of reading to do on that site, so I'll take a look and try to go through it. Do you know of any specific product on the site which may help?


The website that i gave you had broken links to the listed products, no pricing, etc.

Here is a much better website.

http://www.enablemart.com/Catalog/Augme ... munication

Once you pull it up, click on speech generating devices, Basic Communicators, Communication Software, or Picture Communicators. In fact, you might want to preview other categories.

The product information is short and concise.

It will depend on your specific needs and price range.


TheSunAlsoRises


Thank you for passing that to me. It's nice to see that technologies are being brought forwards to help people with disabilities. I went through the site, but unfortunately its not quite what I would like to have.. but I did find a video of a very interesting technology which is coming forward.. not sure when but it's in existence.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/ ... rain-words

Thats a link to it anyway.. they were able to take thought and put it into words that were played out loud. Maybe someday this will come in handy. But even with this, there's still a problem I think, and that is that when you try to recall what you want to say, you're brain gets into a jumble and that would be the reason for it not coming out. I wonder how technology could ever bridge that gap.. or if it ever could. I think what it would have to do is to discover what you were trying to say, and then give you a cue on how to say it before its left your mouth in words. I guess one day it will be around, and I would guess it could be known as predictive speech relay.. or something of those sorts. I know one thing for sure, it would have to have 0% latency between the neuron firing in the brain, and it being on the screen for you to access. It wouldn't necessarily have to be used every time we spoke a word, but rather would come in really handy in those instances where we want to phrase something but cant get past the jumble in our heads.. I wonder if it is also connected to complex ideas.. it always seems when I try to explain something with a little more complexity than just normal talk, it gets jammed on me inside my head. All I know is this: it bugs me a lot, and I am going to discover an answer! lol.

Thanks again.



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16 Aug 2012, 2:55 pm

I just thought Id add something to this topic which I started, because I want to use it as a place also where people can use it to either relate to, or to possibly find help in some way or form.

OK, so I was just reading a little bit of "Thinking in Pictures" by Temple Grandin and she says that our visual memory is far better than our ability to use words to communicate our thoughts.. so I finally clicked.. wow.. maybe the information we always struggle with is in the wrong format to process... perhaps the questions or ideas we always try our best to get out were not visual enough for us to formulate our idea fully, and that's the reason why we get jumbled up so easy when answering in words to words.. when I think of someone asking me a question for example.. or if Im putting my idea across on something, I'm never thinking too often in pictures.. Im concentrating on getting it out as quickly as I can in the form of words.. but what if the whole idea was in the form of pictures.. like a movie scene in the mind.. or a picture.. we could then use single words surrounding it.. put them down somewhere for us to see.. like on a piece of paper.. and then bring forwards a complex answer.

I just thought Id add that to this thread.. now.. I wonder if there are ways to jot down ideas or words.. or.. perhaps shape/pictures quickly so that we can answer these things either "on the go" e.g. outside somewhere.. or.. at home or college etc.

Thinking along the lines of a spider gram (spider diagram - brainstorming) where you add words or pictures quickly and instantly.. I know a piece of paper would also be useful.. but perhaps some kind of touch pad/ graphic tablet.. and a software that recognises shapes even if you cant draw well.. or perhaps turns words or ideas into a topic automatically for you..

Now I can see how technology can help.. but if anyone else wants to add anything.. please feel free



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16 Aug 2012, 4:50 pm

nrau wrote:
It's not autistic, it's connected to personality disorders caused by stress.


While it is possible that it is not specific to AS, I do not believe that it is a personality disorder. I don't see that any of the personality disorders suggest communication difficulties such as this as a symptom. Stress also doesn't cause personality disorders, although it may have a role in impeding communication. Temple Grandin does believe that putting thoughts into words can be difficult for those with ASDs, and difficulties with communication are listed in the diagnostic criteria.

I, personally, found your comment insulting. It seemed as though you were saying, "Your difficulties are not related to AS, they are under your control and you just need to deal with stress better because of your defective personality." I know that isn't what you said, but it is how I took it.


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16 Aug 2012, 5:15 pm

Mmuffinn wrote:
nrau wrote:
It's not autistic, it's connected to personality disorders caused by stress.


While it is possible that it is not specific to AS, I do not believe that it is a personality disorder. I don't see that any of the personality disorders suggest communication difficulties such as this as a symptom. Stress also doesn't cause personality disorders, although it may have a role in impeding communication. Temple Grandin does believe that putting thoughts into words can be difficult for those with ASDs, and difficulties with communication are listed in the diagnostic criteria.

I, personally, found your comment insulting. It seemed as though you were saying, "Your difficulties are not related to AS, they are under your control and you just need to deal with stress better because of your defective personality." I know that isn't what you said, but it is how I took it.


Thats how I took it too Im sorry to say. I hate crossing wires with people.. because it makes it seem like Im in the way or Im stopping them doing what theyre doing. But I agree also, its not a cause of personality disorder, more perhaps towards stresses and how the body reacts to certain types of information is all. But still, if people have suggestions on how to "jot down" or communicate pictures into real world form, then please post! I would be very greatful for any help that people can offer, because it would be a benefit to everyone who suffered of this characteristic which sometimes comes with AS.



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16 Aug 2012, 5:20 pm

Rocker_C wrote:
I havent heard of this before, I guess it would be more tailored towards young kids, early diagnosis is a real blessing for AS. Then they get the help they need before its almost "too late".

I also have the same issues in every aspect of my life, even when talking/ trying to relay information about something I know off by heart kind of thing. It's pretty frustrating at times, and Im worried its going to affect work I do at University.


I'm sure these services are available for adults. There are always people who are missed, there are also speech problems later in life caused by brain injurys, strokes, and so on.

It can't hurt to ask.

Jason.