Schizophrenia and Asperger's

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But could this not be an extreme form of the taking things literally and misunderstanding what people mean, in AS?



Having AS doesn't mean you can't have an ultra vivid imagination. Children generally have even more vivid imaginations than adults as well.



There are many people without disorders who are deluded or vulnerable enough to join cults, otherwise cults wouldn't exist.

I have a huge interest in supernatural, psychic, conspiracy theories etc. but I am absolutely not schizophrenic, I am still very much based in reality and with a firm understanding of what reality is. People with AS can be incredibly niaive (myself included), gullible and taken in by things so could potentially believe things that others might ridicule. For instance, I recently read on a fascinating and intelligent sounding website that there are humans living inside the moon, that were sent there as a government experiment and that there is a whole artificial system supporting them inside the moon (look up "hollow moon"). Now I know this sounds ludicrous, but as I do believe governments hide things from the general population (look up the "Aurora" top secret craft [a theory with some compelling evidence] and artificial clouds [which are a fact] and the damages to humans), I have to consider that it could therefore be a possibility. Does that make me schizophrenic? I do believe that an autistic special interest, which can be anything at all, is all about the extreme level of interest regardless of the object or subject of interest. Extreme level of interest could in theory, be taken to such an extreme such as you mention.

People with autism can also have auditory perception alterations and hyperacusis (http://www.autismhelpforyou.com/New%20- ... Voices.htm), although not that many people are aware of this. This could be interpreted by the professionals as hearing voices and get them labelled as schizophrenic. This is not to mention that an autistic, asked whether they 'hear voices', can answer a simple "yes", because they do hear voices when others are talking, but they don't mean inside their head.

Some of these aspie symptoms could also count as "schizo-" symptoms (perhaps even the "playtime maths book" could count, attending to the old stereotype of the schizophrenic mathematican)

I actually don't think that this person hears voices. They've never mentioned it anyway.

as far as i know, schizophrenics have a fragmented (sometimes to the point of obliteration) sense of self, and autistic people have a complete sense of self.

i am far more interested and trusting of what i think than i would be if i relied on others observations. schizophrenics on the other hand are very attached to their wishes which present themselves in a delusory way. they act on evidence that is not real.

i am not like that

Some of these aspie symptoms could also count as "schizo-" symptoms (perhaps even the "playtime maths book" could count, attending to the old stereotype of the schizophrenic

overlapping symptoms don't really hold my interest
I have been trying to find people who can relate personally
I have read a load of opinions in this thread
Not all polite and I responded not all polite

Was the point you were making that I may not have Asperger's?

I can't speak for others, and I'm not sure if you mean anything I have posted, but if anything I posted came across as rude, I apologise, I never intended anything like that. I am also not intending to tell anyone (or for it to look like I am) that I don't believe they have their condition. All I am doing is expressing my own curiousity, and hypothesising on possibilities in the science of it because of the closely related symptoms between schizophrenia and AS. I am very interested in the whole subject area because I have a close relative diagnosed as schizophrenic.

No, it was more a kind of generalist reflection about how AS and schizophrenia could be confused, because some symptoms are similar.

Yes, the brief diagnostic criteria are worded to imply that ASD and schizophrenia can not co-exist. The criteria for Asperger Disorder in DSM-IV-TR (2000) state: "F. Criteria are not met for another specific Pervasive Developmenta l Disorder or Schizophrenia." (p. 84)

This is followed by the important (and often omitted) rider that "By definition the diagnosis is not given if the criteria are met for any other specific Pervasive Developmental Disorder or for Schizophrenia (although the diagnoses of Asperger's Disorder and Schizophrenia may coexist if the onset of the Asperger's Disorder clearly preceded the onset of Schizophrenia) (Criterion F)." (p. 81)

There is no evidence to suggest that schizophrenia is less common in people with ASD, and some surveys suggest that the diagnosis is actually more common than in people without ASD.

Sorry
Of course you are not saying I'm not Aspie
Some earlier in the tread were very condescending
I think a lot has been said or postulated or contradicted - which flies in the face of things I know or experience/d
Thanks for also being interested
I don't see a lot of overlap- maybe those things are the less extreme or specific symptoms or just presenting with a blank stare for example - lots of reasons for that

exactly. greentigress arriving here as a newbie and persistently promoting schizophrenia and AS together is just plain wrong, they are incongruent

we have enough of a crisis of ego from NT's without being bombarded with bad science and projected theories that are devoid of logic

sure quacks make combined diagnoses.... but the 3 different panel of 'experts' re Brevik, have made 3 different diagnoses..... nuff said

I call BS and the living under a bridge word that ends with two l's

Hello. I see several people are arguing that autistic and psychotic disorders cannot co-exist because they are incongruant. However all psychriactic diagnostics are simply labels for people who meet the cutoff criteria on a list of symptoms. All people are going to be differant, even people with the same label. It would make sence that any combination of traits could be in the same person, even if its uncommon. It would be foolish to say that someone with certain combinations of traits cannot exist. That is why certain diagnosis's have labels such as depression with moon-incongruant psychosis which for example would be someone who is depressed yet has delusions of grandior. Any type of person you could possibly imagine is out there somewhere. Personally Ive been diagnosed with co-morbid Aspergers, Schizoaffective, and ADHD, by quite a few doctors. Even still I also dont have every symptom of any of those. I have my own personal set of symptoms just as anyone does. I even have some traits that contradict the overlapping symptoms of autism and psychosis such as social isolation. Im actually very socially outgoing. Also unlike people with autism or psychosis I require a lot of stimulation to keep myself from being bored and I do not like routine or inactive activities. However I have the lack of empathy, alexithymia, sensory/motor dysfunction, and obsessive intrests typical of aspergers. I also have fluctuating episodes that can last for months. During some episodes I feel like a different person although I remember everything. My thoughts on life and how I precieve the world will be different that usual. I get different types of episodes as well. Some have made me angry and negative toward everyone. Some have made me disorganized and incoherant. Some have made me feel dissociated and hallucinating and realize nothings real. Some have made me emotionless to where I have severe negative symptoms. Some have made me depressed and not care about anything. And often peices of various symptoms overlap. These experiences have helped me realize things, yet at the same time have caused me a lot of problems. Doctors have labled these experiances as schizoaffective disorder and they have been well medicated for sometime now. I have been told I am delusional for my outlook on reality, but as someone else said, anyone could be delusional. If you think about it enough however you'll realize that theres no such thing as delusions when nothings real. Its just perception. Personally I think that comorbid autism and psychosis can even have its benifits in creativity. Anyways to summarize this whole topic, theres no reason why any possiblity of co-morbity of symptoms or diagnostics cannot coexist because incongruencies happen. If they didn't everyone would be the same.