Grrrrness... >:X

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Life choices? You kind of sound the same - its not a life choice, thats the problem they dont understand.

They did have dreams for her but guess what? Thats them being naive - she is her own independent self. If I ever have children, my dream is that they are happy and they don't go through this type of bullshit. Thats parenting. Time to grieve? She isn't dead. If Spacecase were to die tomorrow, they'd miss her, big time, and the last moments of her life were spent with her parents disrespecting her happiness.

If more people were accepting, people like Spacecase wouldnt be having the unneeded troubles she is having.

You NT?

Sorry, I happen to think you're talking a load of tripe.

What about the problem of evil?
Oh, wait, it must be satan's fault, right?

Yes, its reasonable of her brother to believe in some invisible dude in the sky that can do anything helping her or anyone else for that matter.


Psssht.

Let me say here and now that I do not consider the bible a relaible and/or accurate source of evidence.


(Bible coming from "Biblios" meaning 'book'. The translators thought soooooooo highly of the thing that they gave it a name like THAT.)

If spacecase is being blatantly hateful and disrespectful, then you should be able to come up with at least 10 examples off the top of your head.

Yeh, I'm sure she disappointed her parents already - she's here on WP, isn't she?


Anyway since God is all-powerful, if He really wants her to change, He can sort it out Himself.

I do not know why you feel the need for defending - that's what imperfect beings require.

If it comes to praying, doesn't the bible say about 'praying for others'? In that case it would be more sensible for her brother to pray for her!


Hold on, you confused me.


On the one hand, her parents have every right to be disappointed. On the other hand, spacecase must not be dissapointed .


Anyways, you go ahead and attack how people feel anywhere BUT NOT IN THE HAVEN!! ! It is explictly stated that you DO NOT poke fun at feelings in the haven!! !
The entire point of the haven was because people were dismissing genuine complaints as trolling.

You may attack feelings in:
GADF
GTKEOF
RDF
NACEF
MODF
LADF
PDF
FAGSIF
SACLF
WAFAJF
AWMF
TEAFF
CMSATF
GSAFF
AAIF
AFF
KCF
WDF
MDF
W.NDF
SF
ENDFF
PPRF

Anywhere you like EXCEPT THE HAVEN!! !

You claim that spacecase is being disrespectful - well, let me tell you something.

You're the one being disrespectful - NOT ONLY have you gone against the explicitly stated rules for the haven - you have commited one of the few social blunders that you can commit here on WP.

Until you have some evidence from a source that is free of bias, don't even try to debate with us.

Now, don't EVER let me catch you berating someone in the haven again.

*stands up*

*shouts this from the stomach:*
DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR?

Yeh, tolerant of anyone excpet Yorkshireians, right, Tequila?

Amen to that!

((Yes, I'm fully aware of the irony - its kinda the entire point!))

Indeed it says something along the lines of 'Never lie with a man as you would with a woman for that is disgusting'.

You could even argue that that means that its more right for females to be homosexual than hetrosexual.

I mean:

homosexual male = man + man lying. Well, the bible clarly states that that's a no-no.
hetrosexual male = man + woman. Bit trickier but hinted at being an okay-dokey.

Now THIS is where it gets interesting.

hetrosexual female = lying with man. Hmm..didn't the bible say that was a no-no?

homosexual female = woman + woman. No-one's lying with a man.


((I just had a go at myself. Oh well...))

SpaceCase,
You're a beautiful person inside and out, with your own dreams and goals of happiness. If your own family won't support you, then there's no reason at all to stay in an oppressive situation. I hope you are able to find an environment in which you'll be able to get that support, and of course I don't mean just online. Be true to yourself, don't submit to your family whom you already know to be hypocrites! They may be related to you, but if they don't emotionally support all the family members, then they really aren't that much of a family, are they?

Nah, they're not so bad - particularly those from North Yorkshire. Some grand folk up theer. It's the Scousers you want to watch out for these days.

Hrm... I admit I DO have a bias, but if there's a feeding frenzy I guess i'm the pirahnabird. ;p

That's a bias. You might try seeing religion from a more objective viewpoint once or twice; it'll help.


I am shocked you feel a pedophile deserves respect. (granted I draw on information from a COMPLETELY different thread, but still...)


Whoa whoa whoa, WHO'S doing the shoving here?


See point #2.

"I am tolerant towards everyone except bigots. You are a bigot.

SpaceCase hasn't lied to anyone. Her Mother has. Isn't that a sin?

I don't see any evidence to suggest that SpaceCase is "trying to shove [her] orientation down their throats". It sounds as though she is merely trying to be accepted as herself.

You talk of SpaceCase destroying her family's dreams. Surely the greatest dream of any parent is to see their offspring lead a happy life?

Just because someone has a same-sex relationship doesn't mean they are leading an immoral life. Indeed, given the enormous strain we are putting on our planet through overpopulation, it could be argued that gay couples are doing everyone else a favour, and are therefore automatically closer to salvation. She has as much right to heaven as anyone else. If she cheats or steals then yes, that's another matter. But to give someone a guilt trip like this, purely because they love someone of the same sex, is staggeringly intolerant. That's the same kind of intolerance that led Nazis to build concentration camps. Why does she deserve your hatred? What harm is she doing? And where is the kindness, acceptance and forgiveness in your pure Christian heart?

The only evil that SpaceCase needs saving from is you."


Hmmmm, nowhere in my post did I say anything regarding my view on same sex relaltionships, so how does that make me a bigot?? You assumed because I stated that I am a youth minister that I have a negative view on these relationships when in fact I think that all people have the right to choose to live their lives as they see fit. My deal with her is how she disrespects her parents, calling them names, saying she hates them and wants to kill them. Those are dangerous words. I care less what sort of lifestyle she or anyone else lives for that matter, that's their life. I also find it interesting how you all support how she talks about the people who have been there for her all her life yet I do not see anyone sending the monetary support she will need to leave her home. How many times have you sat in an emergency room with her or gotten up in the middle of the night with her when she was ill?? How many times have you driven her to the mall, taken her to the movies, put a quater under her pillow when her tooth fell out!! !! ! WHERE HAVE ALL OF YOU KIND PEOPLE BEEN ALL HER LIFE. Yes I think she lacks a tremendous amount of respect for those who have taken care of her. If you really care about this young women then you should do it with more then just mere words, do like her parents do, take her into your home, buy her clothes, put her through school, give her money for lunch every day and do all that they do for her. If you are not willing to do that then I would suggest that you stop encouraging her to continue to rebel against her parents standards while she is still living under their roof. Whether you, she or anyone else here likes it or not those are her parents and they are worthy of some respect. Maybe someday they will in turn then learn to respect her life as well.

I would also like to add that nowhere in my posts have I brought up religion other then to address comments she made regarding her parents religious views. I find it interesting that so many of you continue you to bring up the religious factor in this. Some are even using scripture in their own interpretation to condone same sex relationships. Just an observation.

It sounds like her parents haven't respected her from day one. If you live in that sort of environment, why should you respect someone who is trying to repress you and cause you harm? I have a very good relationship with my parents, so I'm loyal to the core. It helps that they respect me for who I am and stand by me every step of the way. Her parents don't seem to give a s**t about her.

As I say, you're doing the right thing, SpaceCase.

You NT?

Sorry, I happen to think you're talking a load of tripe.

What about the problem of evil?
Oh, wait, it must be satan's fault, right?

Yes, its reasonable of her brother to believe in some invisible dude in the sky that can do anything helping her or anyone else for that matter.


Psssht.

Let me say here and now that I do not consider the bible a relaible and/or accurate source of evidence.


(Bible coming from "Biblios" meaning 'book'. The translators thought soooooooo highly of the thing that they gave it a name like THAT.)

If spacecase is being blatantly hateful and disrespectful, then you should be able to come up with at least 10 examples off the top of your head.

Yeh, I'm sure she disappointed her parents already - she's here on WP, isn't she?


Anyway since God is all-powerful, if He really wants her to change, He can sort it out Himself.

I do not know why you feel the need for defending - that's what imperfect beings require.

If it comes to praying, doesn't the bible say about 'praying for others'? In that case it would be more sensible for her brother to pray for her!


Hold on, you confused me.


On the one hand, her parents have every right to be disappointed. On the other hand, spacecase must not be dissapointed .


Anyways, you go ahead and attack how people feel anywhere BUT NOT IN THE HAVEN!! ! It is explictly stated that you DO NOT poke fun at feelings in the haven!! !
The entire point of the haven was because people were dismissing genuine complaints as trolling.

You may attack feelings in:
GADF
GTKEOF
RDF
NACEF
MODF
LADF
PDF
FAGSIF
SACLF
WAFAJF
AWMF
TEAFF
CMSATF
GSAFF
AAIF
AFF
KCF
WDF
MDF
W.NDF
SF
ENDFF
PPRF

Anywhere you like EXCEPT THE HAVEN!! !

You claim that spacecase is being disrespectful - well, let me tell you something.

You're the one being disrespectful - NOT ONLY have you gone against the explicitly stated rules for the haven - you have commited one of the few social blunders that you can commit here on WP.

Until you have some evidence from a source that is free of bias, don't even try to debate with us.

Now, don't EVER let me catch you berating someone in the haven again.

*stands up*

*shouts this from the stomach:*
DO I MAKE MYSELF CLEAR?[/quote]


Oh that makes me really afraid now. Don't you think it is ridiculous to make cyber threats? Did you even read my post?? Where do I poke fun of her feelings?? Where do I berate her?? I would dare to say it is you who are belittling her. It is outrageous to say she disappointed her parents because she is here on WP, sounds to me like your making fun of her. On the contrary I take her feelings quite seriously and if she handles this situation with some maturity her parents might take her seriously as well.

I'll leave out the parts that don't apply to me.

I screwed up there, I'll admit. However, you gotta admit it was easy to make that mistake since you were giving that much support for her homophobic family and their behavior.As are deceptive words, ill words spoken of and to one's daughter or sister, and whatever other ills SpaceCase's family is causing her. Unlike them, however, she hasn't done ill to them beyond standing up for herself, which can hardly be called an ill at all.I've been in Nebraska, working 6.15 an hour part time while paying for college. If it turns out I need to take a break from college to ease stress and establish finances while working full time, then I might be able to help her get away from home. Even that, however, is assuming she'd accept it.Not the way they treat her.As I understand, they are fanatics in their religious beliefs, and selfish in their concern for image in the community. Reason and fanatics seldom mix, and people who are so concerned about the community's view of them are often willing to do things easily frowned upon to maintain their image.

You make a point of saying that the Church does not condone homosexuality. You then go on to draw parallels between homosexuality and cancer, and give credence to her brother's belief that she somehow needs to be "saved". From what, exactly? Love? You are quick to say that she has ruined all of her parents dreams (thereby assuming that you know everything about her parents) simply by trying to be herself, by which you are saying that her sexuality makes her intrinsically bad. You also talk of sexuality as a lifestyle choice, which is ignorance personified. It isn't a choice, any more that the colour of your own eyes is a choice. Therefore, I think you are a bigot.

I've only known SpaceCase via this forum for a couple of weeks, and (as far as I know) everyone else is in the same situation. So it goes without saying that we weren't around to change her diapers way back when. Funny, then, that she feels comfortable talking about her sexuality here, whereas she is prevented from expressing her emotions honestly at home (which should be one of the most caring, loving and open environments of all). This simply goes to prove that we can choose our friends but not our relatives. The fact that they've been looking after her for a long time doesn't automatically make them the best people to do so in the future. I'd say her girlfriend will be much better at it, by the sounds of things.

If there is a path which SpaceCase chooses to follow, which will make her happy and not offend reasonable people, then I for one would be happy to support her.

I don't condone SpaceCase's anger, but I can understand that it is a "spur of the moment" outpouring of vitriol and should not be taken literally. If her parents were more willing to listen, and to talk about it in a rational manner rather than denying SpaceCase the approval she needs in order to be herself and be happy, then this anger would not arise. It sounds as though there have been attempts in the past to talk this through (SpaceCase please confirm), but I'd imagine this causes her parents to sink further into denial, believing that divine intervention, guilt and more forceful parental control will somehow make her change. Is it any wonder that there is anger? I know it would be a difficult thing in any household, at least initially, but most parents are willing to think things over and support their children, rather than forcing them to live a lie.

Well like the 90% who base morality on fictional works they are usually hypocrites. Lets not confuse the issue here. Their is nothing wrong with homosexuality. Spacecase
has a right to be mad because she is being discriminated against by bigots in this world.