Nurse gives up career after refusing flu shot.

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PM
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05 Jan 2013, 1:42 am

http://news.yahoo.com/nurses-fired-refu ... ealth.html

I say she is brave for taking a stand for personal choice.

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cathylynn
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05 Jan 2013, 1:47 am

if she is so dumb she thinks the flu shot will hurt her or if she cares so little for her patients that she doesn't mind giving them a potentially fatal flu, i wouldn't want her taking care of me.

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05 Jan 2013, 1:54 am

cathylynn wrote:

if she is so dumb she thinks the flu shot will hurt her or if she cares so little for her patients that she doesn't mind giving them a potentially fatal flu, i wouldn't want her taking care of me.

So, in your mind, safety is more important than personal liberty, no?

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cathylynn
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05 Jan 2013, 1:58 am

PM wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

if she is so dumb she thinks the flu shot will hurt her or if she cares so little for her patients that she doesn't mind giving them a potentially fatal flu, i wouldn't want her taking care of me.

So, in your mind, safety is more important than personal liberty, no?

in most cases, yes.

redrobin62
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05 Jan 2013, 2:07 am

Years ago I worked at a nursing home. The director said, "Having a flu shot is not mandatory, however, failure to do so raises a question of whether you're a suitable fit for this institution." In other words, get a shot or else!

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EstherJ
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05 Jan 2013, 2:08 am

Without safety, there is no opportunity for freedom.

Now...lets try to define safety....

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05 Jan 2013, 2:12 am

cathylynn wrote:

PM wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

if she is so dumb she thinks the flu shot will hurt her or if she cares so little for her patients that she doesn't mind giving them a potentially fatal flu, i wouldn't want her taking care of me.

So, in your mind, safety is more important than personal liberty, no?

in most cases, yes.

It is your right to have that opinion.

Yes, she was in a high-risk job, but that does not mean she does no have the right to refuse and leave the job.

I would rather be free than safe.

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."-Benjamin Franklin

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GoonSquad
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05 Jan 2013, 3:34 am

PM wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

PM wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

if she is so dumb she thinks the flu shot will hurt her or if she cares so little for her patients that she doesn't mind giving them a potentially fatal flu, i wouldn't want her taking care of me.

So, in your mind, safety is more important than personal liberty, no?

in most cases, yes.

Freedom REQUIRES responsible behavior.

Here's a quote more libertarians need to UNDERSTAND.

Quote:

Men are qualified for civil liberty in exact proportion to their disposition to put moral chains upon their own appetites, — in proportion as their love to justice is above their rapacity, — in proportion as their soundness and sobriety of understanding is above their vanity and presumption, — in proportion as they are more disposed to listen to the counsels of the wise and good, in preference to the flattery of knaves. Society cannot exist, unless a controlling power upon will and appetite be placed somewhere; and the less of it there is within, the more there must be without. It is ordained in the eternal constitution of things, that men of intemperate minds cannot be free. Their passions forge their fetters.

Edmund Burke

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puddingmouse
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05 Jan 2013, 3:49 am

Any job requires a sacrifice of freedom. Jobs require you to go to a certain place at certain times and do certain things. Not doing them gets you sacked. If we take you argument to its logical conclusion, then it's better not to work for someone else at all, rather than sacrifice any of our freedoms. Not everyone has the option of working for themselves.

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05 Jan 2013, 4:42 am

puddingmouse wrote:

I'm not disagreeing, she simply took a stand for her personal liberty by refusing and resigning.

Also, to Goonsquad: Who said I was a Libertarian?

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Ellingtonia
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05 Jan 2013, 4:48 am

PM wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

if she is so dumb she thinks the flu shot will hurt her or if she cares so little for her patients that she doesn't mind giving them a potentially fatal flu, i wouldn't want her taking care of me.

So, in your mind, safety is more important than personal liberty, no?

The issue is that we're not talking about the nurse's safety, we're talking about the patient's safety. If someone wants to refuse the flu shot and risk getting themselves sick then that's fine with me, but if a nurse refuses the flu shot and gets the flu she will likely pass it on to many patients. Patients already in hospital are particularly vulnerable to influenza. I don't think it's at all unreasonable to require hospital workers to get a flu shot.

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05 Jan 2013, 4:58 am

If you're going to stand up for a certain personal liberty, at least do it for one that is worthwhile. I think one does not stand up for liberty as a whole when resigning over something like this - simply because the effect of her actions will be limited to her not having a nursing career. There is no positive outcome from her actions.

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05 Jan 2013, 5:05 am

PM wrote:

cathylynn wrote:

if she is so dumb she thinks the flu shot will hurt her or if she cares so little for her patients that she doesn't mind giving them a potentially fatal flu, i wouldn't want her taking care of me.

So, in your mind, safety is more important than personal liberty, no?

how about the physician who is going to perform surgery on you won't wash his hands that gives him a dry skin, and don't want to put those ridiculous cloth on? is he also allowed to have his personal liberty and keep on working because personal liberty is more important than the patients safety?

well… i don't think so.

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05 Jan 2013, 5:28 am

PM wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

I'm not disagreeing, she simply took a stand for her personal liberty by refusing and resigning.

Also, to Goonsquad: Who said I was a Libertarian?

I’m not calling names, just throwing it out there.

Too many people, especially those who identify themselves as libertarian, fetishize the concept of personal freedom and profoundly misunderstand what it is in the context of civil society. Edmund Burke explains it rather well.

To my mind, this nurse is not some martyr for personal freedom. She's just a woman who chose not to act in a reasonable, considerate manner and lost her job as a result.

Nobody is free to needlessly imperil other people.

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TallyMan
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05 Jan 2013, 5:58 am

GoonSquad wrote:

^ This.

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PM
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05 Jan 2013, 6:00 am

GoonSquad wrote:

PM wrote:

puddingmouse wrote:

I'm not disagreeing, she simply took a stand for her personal liberty by refusing and resigning.

Also, to Goonsquad: Who said I was a Libertarian?

I avoid flu shots (and most medical treatment for that matter) simply because I cannot stand needles. However, I am not in a high-risk job where people could die if I did not get vaccinated.

I see the point of your quote, but I still value personal liberty over safety.

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Last edited by PM on 05 Jan 2013, 3:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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