The 'Hookup Culture' of my generation...

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nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 10:43 am

Bear in mind that I'm 46, I've got Aspergers Syndrome that was only diagnosed at age 34
and the whole 'FWB' thing is new to me

All my previous relationships have been of a bf/gf nature and I have lived with several former bf's
ie standard bf/gf relationships is all I know in terms of ongoing relationships

The FWB thing is just a major head-f-k - it wants to be ongoing but gives none of the security
of a proper bf/gf relationship

Also there's still been jealousy which I find most unfair ie I was expected to be exclusive and not even talk about other men

I don't have many people to talk to so obviously someone who is prepared to chat all day online is going to seem very attractive to me

I knew I had stepped over the FWB boundary when I had strong feelings towards this person and told him I loved him

he never said I couldn't say it, he said it was a nice thing to say but he didn't say it back and as a result I felt a lot of emotional pain

I was too attached to be able to break free though

Each time he upset me by saying something thoughtless or acting in an uncaring, seemingly cruel and manipulative manner we'd have a row and I'd try and cut contact but it never lasted as one of us would make contact again

In my opinion he is either ASD or some kind of mild sociopath

He's definitely manipulataive whereas I'm the opposite

It feels like I just keep getting f-ked over by him and left reeling then he wants me to jsut forget how bad he's made me feel and
pick up where we left off!

People on here are talking as if they have loads of friends that they have sex with as and when the urge takes them
ie they have access to numerous sophisticated social relationships and friendships

I don't!

I like to have someone to talk to each day and I did like having the sex but it was friendship that was the main thing and when he did things that upset me it made me think 'this person is not my friend' - he just pretends to be to get sex from me

Then later last year I started giving him money as he's always running out and often not got enough for heating or food and this would make me feel even more used when he'd upset me

Trying to tell him to leave me alone by email earlier today left me crying and feeling awful as it was like I was being expected to agree to go back to being treated badly again

Now I've given up and we've resumed communication I feel better but it's back to square one again!

I feel I'm permanently trapped and have no idea what my real feelings are



Last edited by nessa238 on 16 Jan 2013, 10:57 am, edited 1 time in total.

abyssquick
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16 Jan 2013, 10:52 am

mercifullyfree wrote:
Eh, I've had very few problems with FwB or casual sex and can look back on those encounters with either fond memories or no hard feelings at all. It's whenever it's gotten more personal and more 'romancy' that the fun factor rapidly decreased. I really don't connect sex with love in my head and am a lot more comfortable in my skin with the former than the latter. Much rather wake up physically sore after a bout of good sex with someone who I don't mind will stay or not than wake up emotionally sore after months of "relationship." :P


I only qualify my statements as applying to the majority of my particular social circle. I can't recall one person who spoke positively about FWB, that wasn't a male. That doesn't mean such people don't exist, though. I have an ex-GF who I'm sure wouldn't have minded the FWB thing. I'm not with her anymore because our emotional constitution was very different.

A lot of people aren't made for that type of "transaction" because they can't see sex as a transaction. For many people sex and emotions are intertwined.

It's not a matter of maturity, it's a matter of constitution.



Last edited by abyssquick on 16 Jan 2013, 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.

J-Greens
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16 Jan 2013, 10:57 am

nessa238 wrote:
In my opinion he is either ASD or some kind of mild sociopath


Seems to me that he's neither. He understands the FWB system and you don't. Obviously he wants to continue the FWB relationship because from his point of view, he keeps doing nothing that's a deal-breaker and so keeps patching up your outbursts to keep it going. In one respect, you could argue that he is manipulative to repeatedly keep fixing the relationship when it's inevitably going to break.

In my opinion this FWB system has turned one-sided and toxic, best to cut all ties and leave.



abyssquick
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16 Jan 2013, 11:03 am

I have ASD too, but am more social than most. The habits of people around me are one of my "special interests" so to speak

A lot of the time "friendship" between people is contingent only on enjoying each other's company. If it's contingent on him getting sex at some point (as it sounds to me) then that's the contingency. If so, that's not healthy for you, being the type of person you are. Which is terribly frustrating, as one's loneliness is a powerful factor too.

The fact that so many guys feign the motions of a relationship (texting, chatting every day) just to keep sex open, is deplorable. I have seen this many times in people, and in all the cases, the woman has clearly been the one being yanked around. These types of guys, at their worst, ruin and defame nicer girls by prying at their insecurities.

One sure way to find out ...

If you stop having sex with him, don't be surprised if he loses interest. If you find someone else to talk to, don't be surprised if he drops you out entirely. He'll probably get jealous, yes, but only because he's losing an object of gratification.

If he cares about you as a person, as an actual friend and not an object of gratification, then sex needn't be involved at all.

People are complicated - but it sounds like you're the sensitive and caring type. I am, and this type of thing would never work for me. If a person likes you, then sex won't be a factor in your friendship. People who are genuinely friends hang out just for the positivity of each other's company above all else.

For some people (like myself) FWB will never be "normal" or any kind of viable "system"



Last edited by abyssquick on 16 Jan 2013, 11:25 am, edited 2 times in total.

nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 11:23 am

J-Greens wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
In my opinion he is either ASD or some kind of mild sociopath


Seems to me that he's neither. He understands the FWB system and you don't. Obviously he wants to continue the FWB relationship because from his point of view, he keeps doing nothing that's a deal-breaker and so keeps patching up your outbursts to keep it going. In one respect, you could argue that he is manipulative to repeatedly keep fixing the relationship when it's inevitably going to break.

In my opinion this FWB system has turned one-sided and toxic, best to cut all ties and leave.


So if a person you'd been sleeping with for over a year and who'd said they loved you recently says they don't fancy you, but don't worry, it's because their definition of 'fancying someone' isn't the same as yours, you'd be fine with that would you?

Or to put it another way, if a person kicked you emotionally in the guts, you'd be fine with your hurt feelings being termed an 'outburst' would you?

Yes, as I've explained, I've been trying to cut all ties and leave!



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 11:27 am

abyssquick wrote:
I have ASD too, but am more social than most. The habits of people around me are one of my "special interests" so to speak

A lot of the time "friendship" between people is contingent only on enjoying each other's company. If it's contingent on him getting sex at some point (as it sounds to me) then that's the contingency. If so, that's not healthy for you, being the type of person you are. Which is terribly frustrating, as one's loneliness is a powerful factor too.

The fact that so many guys feign the motions of a relationship (texting, chatting every day) just to keep sex open, is deplorable. I have seen this many times in people, and it's despicable - in all cases the woman has clearly been the one being yanked around. These types of guys ruin and defame nicer girls by prying at their insecurities.

One sure way to find out ...

If you stop having sex with him, don't be surprised if he loses interest. If you find someone else to talk to, don't be surprised if he drops you out entirely. He'll probably get jealous, yes, but only because he's losing an object of gratification.

If he cares about you as a person, as an actual friend and not an object of gratification, then sex needn't be involved at all.

People are complicated - but it sounds like you're the sensitive and caring type. I am, and this type of thing would never work for me. If a person likes you, then sex won't be a factor in your friendship. People who are genuinely friends hang out just for the positivity of each other's company above all else.

For some people (like myself) FWB will never be "normal" or any kind of viable "system"


I am a caring and extremely sensitive person - yes

And it's these very aspects of my nature that he plays on

My best relationships are two friendships with males who don't expect sex from me

One an ex partner who I live with now as a friend and the other an ex work colleague who I've never had a relationship
with

Both of these people make me feel they value me as a person and care about me and neither wants sex.
it seems to me that more often than not, sex is a complete red herring as an indicator of love or care or even liking!



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16 Jan 2013, 11:31 am

nessa238 wrote:
Bear in mind that I'm 46, I've got Aspergers Syndrome that was only diagnosed at age 34
and the whole 'FWB' thing is new to me

The FWB thing is just a major head-f-k - it wants to be ongoing but gives none of the security
of a proper bf/gf relationship

Also there's still been jealousy which I find most unfair ie I was expected to be exclusive and not even talk about other men

I knew I had stepped over the FWB boundary when I had strong feelings towards this person and told him I loved him

I feel I'm permanently trapped and have no idea what my real feelings are


I just wanted to say - don't worry! Your reactions to falling in love with the person you're in bed with is 100% totally natural and normal. For most people (especially those of us who don't have a ton of sex) mating is a very bonding thing and it ties you to that person more each time. Some people, for all kinds of reasons, no longer do - but I'd venture to call them the minority... but growing with this generation that doesn't know how to be intimate anymore.

Sorry to hear your friend really didn't feel the same and reacted so incredibly badly to your intimacy. :(

I dedicate this song for all of us who fell in love with someone who was still holding out for "better".
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xbFU6w7q3dQ[/youtube]



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 11:41 am

BlueMax wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Bear in mind that I'm 46, I've got Aspergers Syndrome that was only diagnosed at age 34
and the whole 'FWB' thing is new to me

The FWB thing is just a major head-f-k - it wants to be ongoing but gives none of the security
of a proper bf/gf relationship

Also there's still been jealousy which I find most unfair ie I was expected to be exclusive and not even talk about other men

I knew I had stepped over the FWB boundary when I had strong feelings towards this person and told him I loved him

I feel I'm permanently trapped and have no idea what my real feelings are


I just wanted to say - don't worry! Your reactions to falling in love with the person you're in bed with is 100% totally natural and normal. For most people (especially those of us who don't have a ton of sex) mating is a very bonding thing and it ties you to that person more each time. Some people, for all kinds of reasons, no longer do - but I'd venture to call them the minority... but growing with this generation that doesn't know how to be intimate anymore.

Sorry to hear your friend really didn't feel the same and reacted so incredibly badly to your intimacy. :(


Thanks

I have been able to sleep with people and not form any strong bond but this person seems to have cast some kind of spell on me that I can't shake off. We are a match in some respects but in others he's exceedingly wrong for me as I am very sensitive and he is brutally honest and often it seems to me as if he enjoys saying the very thing that will hurt me

He's been saying things like this in emails today:-

"ive told you, you are an attractive lady
i just dont use the word fancy as that use of the word is for crushes etc
& i do care about you"


"i am a wonderful person if you really knew me

& im sorry that you were upset at the misunderstanding
but there was no need for you to get extremely nasty about it so you can talk"

"i told you that i dont use that word fancy its childish like school boy crushes
i also told you that in your use of the word its a yes

youve have said a lot worse than what youve taken from that"


This is what he does - he reels me back in with stuff like this :(

I can't deal with all the ambiguity - why go to all this trouble??



abyssquick
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16 Jan 2013, 11:43 am

nessa238 wrote:
I am a caring and extremely sensitive person - yes

And it's these very aspects of my nature that he plays on

My best relationships are two friendships with males who don't expect sex from me

One an ex partner who I live with now as a friend and the other an ex work colleague who I've never had a relationship
with

Both of these people make me feel they value me as a person and care about me and neither wants sex.
it seems to me that more often than not, sex is a complete red herring as an indicator of love or care or even liking!


Sex is an emotionally vulnerable experience for sensitive and caring types. It may inevitably connect us to the person we share it with - but especially those with who we have common interests. So we have to be selective of those with whom we choose to share it.

For the types who enjoy the FWB thing, they are able to compartmentalize sex as more of a stimulation/pleasure, a "rush" and leisure activity -- but there's an entire population that isn't built for it. I am not ashamed to count myself among those people. It has nothing to do with my emotional maturity, or my level of sexual experience.

Respect who you are, and hold to a standard you set for yourself. If any relationship, friendship, or social investment gets to become more than you can handle emotionally, if it costs you more than it's worth, then cut out of there. Try to name your price before going into it, for your own sake.

I severed a relationship of 10 years in June of 2011 because of what it was doing to me psychologically. Dragging it out (as I did for years) out of fear of being alone, insecurity, fear of losing my emotional investment, of nobody ever loving me again -- it was mostly out of fear.

Every time you stand up for yourself, you're reborn a wiser person. Other people (the right sort) also tend to find that attractive. People who set these kinds of standards for themselves, who monitor their emotional periphery, will get more out of life.

Cutting ties is not nearly as bad as one envisions. If you're unhappy it only stings for a bit. But then you surface a freer person.

Only take this advice if you think it applies. Only you can make these sorts of decisions. It's only my own experiences I'm drawing from -



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 11:50 am

abyssquick wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
I am a caring and extremely sensitive person - yes

And it's these very aspects of my nature that he plays on

My best relationships are two friendships with males who don't expect sex from me

One an ex partner who I live with now as a friend and the other an ex work colleague who I've never had a relationship
with

Both of these people make me feel they value me as a person and care about me and neither wants sex.
it seems to me that more often than not, sex is a complete red herring as an indicator of love or care or even liking!


Sex is an emotionally vulnerable experience for sensitive and caring types. It may inevitably connect us to the person we share it with - but especially those with who we have common interests. So we have to be selective of those with whom we choose to share it.

For the types who enjoy the FWB thing, it's more of a stimulation/pleasure, a "rush" and leisure activity -- but there's an entire population that isn't built for it. I am not ashamed to count myself among those people. It has nothing to do with my emotional maturity, or my level of sexual experience.

Respect who you are, and hold to a standard you set for yourself. If any relationship, friendship, or social investment gets to become more than you can handle emotionally, if it costs you more than it's worth, then cut out of there. Try to name your price before going into it, for your own sake.

I severed a relationship of 10 years in June of 2011 because of what it was doing to me psychologically. Dragging it out (as I did for years) out of fear of being alone, insecurity, fear of losing my emotional investment, of nobody ever loving me again -- it was mostly out of fear.

Every time you stand up for yourself, you're reborn a wiser person. Other people (the right sort) also tend to find that attractive. People who set these kinds of standards for themselves, who monitor their emotional periphery, will get more out of life.

Cutting ties is not nearly as bad as one envisions. If you're unhappy it only stings for a bit. But then you surface a freer person.

Only take this advice if you think it applies. Only you can make these sorts of decisions. It's only my own experiences I'm drawing from -


You're so right when you say this:-

"For the types who enjoy the FWB thing, it's more of a stimulation/pleasure, a "rush" and leisure activity"

He even asks me to choke him and this has been downright dangerous imo as obviously with feeling manipulated and used
I've felt real anger towards him and when I've done the choking it's felt good and almost as if I could follow through and wring his f-king neck! This scared the hell out of me as obviously I don't want someone's death on my hands!

Last time I didn't feel angry towards him so had to think about the people who've f-ked me over at work instead
- there's never a shortage of people to think of!

It's all about the buzz for him, definitely

I just feel it all makes life more exciting than it would be without knowing him, which I know is a very poor reason for maintaining contact :(

I can't stick to a decision or have enough willpower where all this kind of thing is concerned

It's like my relationship with chocolate - if it's in the house I'll eat it!

I feel I'm being expected to cope with situations I'm not emotionally capable or mature enough to cope with!

If you watch the 2nd episode of The Undateables TV programme, it's fairly evident to me that the people with a learning disability are better at having mature interactions with each other than I am!

And it makes me feel terrible

I often feel the Aspergers makes me more not less vulnerable than people with a learning disability



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16 Jan 2013, 12:05 pm

It really doesn't help you two have totally different definitions of the word "fancy". :? The use of that word seems almost critical in this scenario.



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 12:20 pm

BlueMax wrote:
It really doesn't help you two have totally different definitions of the word "fancy". :? The use of that word seems almost critical in this scenario.


I know

It's basically ALWAYS a battle of wills between us for ultimate control of the relationship
- we are both controllers

I want the position and so does he!

I said 'We always end up going by your rules don't we?'
and he said 'Yes, because I am the man and I wear the trousers'

I refuse to accept the 'female as subservient' gender role he tries to assign me basically

The power dynamics have been all over the place, back and forth



mv
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16 Jan 2013, 12:23 pm

nessa238 wrote:
BlueMax wrote:
It really doesn't help you two have totally different definitions of the word "fancy". :? The use of that word seems almost critical in this scenario.


I know

It's basically ALWAYS a battle of wills between us for ultimate control of the relationship
- we are both controllers

I want the position and so does he!

I said 'We always end up going by your rules don't we?'
and he said 'Yes, because I am the man and I wear the trousers'

I refuse to accept the 'female as subservient' gender role he tries to assign me basically

The power dynamics have been all over the place, back and forth


You *really* need to get away from this douchebag.



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 12:23 pm

mv wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
BlueMax wrote:
It really doesn't help you two have totally different definitions of the word "fancy". :? The use of that word seems almost critical in this scenario.


I know

It's basically ALWAYS a battle of wills between us for ultimate control of the relationship
- we are both controllers

I want the position and so does he!

I said 'We always end up going by your rules don't we?'
and he said 'Yes, because I am the man and I wear the trousers'

I refuse to accept the 'female as subservient' gender role he tries to assign me basically

The power dynamics have been all over the place, back and forth


You *really* need to get away from this douchebag.


I know :(



metalab
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16 Jan 2013, 12:31 pm

nessa238 wrote:

Yes I understand how it is from the male point of view but it's as if men want it both ways ie to be able to get a woman to give them sex while being able to keep letting her know she's not really what they want but she'll do for now and should stop moaning if he insults her as she's lucky to be getting any attention at all! I am being made the whipping girl for the fanciable women not wanting to know him basically!

To even up the score, should I find a man I don't fancy and f-k his life up in return?

Can you see why this would make a lot of women say they can't be bothered with men full stop?

Yes, I get it, men only want the beautiful woman - so go after her and leave me the f-k alone!

Everyone wants the prettiest people so competition is obviously going to be high but if you make your bed you'd better damn well lie in it!


Ya you probably are are just a stepping stone to him. If your not ok with this position then it needs to end.

Also I just want to clarify, I was not hinting a guys only wanting pretty girls. Despite how males might clamor over them it may seem thats all that they care about, but it's not. I have steered myself away from pretty girls just because there are things about them I don't like, or don't respect.

And women do find men and show disingenuine interest in them for some other gain... Usually it's not for sex though, it's for something else.



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 12:56 pm

metalab wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

Yes I understand how it is from the male point of view but it's as if men want it both ways ie to be able to get a woman to give them sex while being able to keep letting her know she's not really what they want but she'll do for now and should stop moaning if he insults her as she's lucky to be getting any attention at all! I am being made the whipping girl for the fanciable women not wanting to know him basically!

To even up the score, should I find a man I don't fancy and f-k his life up in return?

Can you see why this would make a lot of women say they can't be bothered with men full stop?

Yes, I get it, men only want the beautiful woman - so go after her and leave me the f-k alone!

Everyone wants the prettiest people so competition is obviously going to be high but if you make your bed you'd better damn well lie in it!


Ya you probably are are just a stepping stone to him. If your not ok with this position then it needs to end.

Also I just want to clarify, I was not hinting a guys only wanting pretty girls. Despite how males might clamor over them it may seem thats all that they care about, but it's not. I have steered myself away from pretty girls just because there are things about them I don't like, or don't respect.

And women do find men and show disingenuine interest in them for some other gain... Usually it's not for sex though, it's for something else.


I really don't think he's likely to find anyone else in a hurry and if he did it would be to my benefit!

He calls his ex gf's 'The b*****s from Hell' - which I think says it all!

He said he had a fight with one of them when she tried to smash his James Bond watch and I know exactly how she felt
when she tried to do it!

Possessions are more important to him than peoples' feelings in my opinion

I think you're right as to women wanting things off men - they mainly want positive attention; someone to listen to their problems and show they care

He's not my intellectual equal by any means but I tolerate his boring talk about grooming products, shaving and screws as it's
someone to talk to

Some women want money and material things off men but I'm not like that - he's been having money off me!