The 'Hookup Culture' of my generation...

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nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 12:56 pm

metalab wrote:
nessa238 wrote:

Yes I understand how it is from the male point of view but it's as if men want it both ways ie to be able to get a woman to give them sex while being able to keep letting her know she's not really what they want but she'll do for now and should stop moaning if he insults her as she's lucky to be getting any attention at all! I am being made the whipping girl for the fanciable women not wanting to know him basically!

To even up the score, should I find a man I don't fancy and f-k his life up in return?

Can you see why this would make a lot of women say they can't be bothered with men full stop?

Yes, I get it, men only want the beautiful woman - so go after her and leave me the f-k alone!

Everyone wants the prettiest people so competition is obviously going to be high but if you make your bed you'd better damn well lie in it!


Ya you probably are are just a stepping stone to him. If your not ok with this position then it needs to end.

Also I just want to clarify, I was not hinting a guys only wanting pretty girls. Despite how males might clamor over them it may seem thats all that they care about, but it's not. I have steered myself away from pretty girls just because there are things about them I don't like, or don't respect.

And women do find men and show disingenuine interest in them for some other gain... Usually it's not for sex though, it's for something else.


I really don't think he's likely to find anyone else in a hurry and if he did it would be to my benefit!

He calls his ex gf's 'The b*****s from Hell' - which I think says it all!

He said he had a fight with one of them when she tried to smash his James Bond watch and I know exactly how she felt
when she tried to do it!

Possessions are more important to him than peoples' feelings in my opinion

I think you're right as to women wanting things off men - they mainly want positive attention; someone to listen to their problems and show they care

He's not my intellectual equal by any means but I tolerate his boring talk about grooming products, shaving and screws as it's
someone to talk to

Some women want money and material things off men but I'm not like that - he's been having money off me!



BlueMax
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16 Jan 2013, 1:07 pm

So far I haven't heard ONE redeeming quality about this guy... why'd you even settle for him? :eew:

He must've had some sort of initial charm or something that quickly faded away once his "real self" came through.



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 1:14 pm

BlueMax wrote:
So far I haven't heard ONE redeeming quality about this guy... why'd you even settle for him? :eew:

He must've had some sort of initial charm or something that quickly faded away once his "real self" came through.


I find him sexually attractive unfortunately

I've never felt a chemistry like it before - it proves that sexual chemistry has nothing to do with personality

He also has a similar mindset to me towards society - ie people are generally s**t

I can't explain it logically, it's just as if the person is like a missing half, even if they aren't very nice

Perhaps having low self esteem it's jsut that I can't relate to people who would treat me well??

I'm dysfunctional and only fit with another dysfunctional person

I certainly don't relate to the average person on a dating site - I'm far too negative and cynical

In many ways I'm not a nice person either so perhaps like is attracting like

Although I like to think I am a basically decent person

When angered I'm pretty nasty though



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16 Jan 2013, 1:16 pm

nessa238 wrote:
When angered I'm pretty nasty though


You don't say? *playful nudge*



nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 1:23 pm

BlueMax wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
When angered I'm pretty nasty though


You don't say? *playful nudge*


Lol :D

Yes I'm quite happy to acknowledge that aspect of myself

The rhyme about the little girl who 'When she was Good she was Very, Very Good but
when she was Bad she was Horrid" was made for me!



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16 Jan 2013, 1:42 pm

Remind me not to piss you off again. ;)

Yeah... I can understand the appeal of a sexy-but-awful person. I've known a few of those... they never end well.



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16 Jan 2013, 5:26 pm

nessa238 wrote:
Bear in mind that I'm 46, I've got Aspergers Syndrome that was only diagnosed at age 34
and the whole 'FWB' thing is new to me

All my previous relationships have been of a bf/gf nature and I have lived with several former bf's
ie standard bf/gf relationships is all I know in terms of ongoing relationships

The FWB thing is just a major head-f-k - it wants to be ongoing but gives none of the security
of a proper bf/gf relationship

Also there's still been jealousy which I find most unfair ie I was expected to be exclusive and not even talk about other men

I don't have many people to talk to so obviously someone who is prepared to chat all day online is going to seem very attractive to me

I knew I had stepped over the FWB boundary when I had strong feelings towards this person and told him I loved him

he never said I couldn't say it, he said it was a nice thing to say but he didn't say it back and as a result I felt a lot of emotional pain

I was too attached to be able to break free though

Each time he upset me by saying something thoughtless or acting in an uncaring, seemingly cruel and manipulative manner we'd have a row and I'd try and cut contact but it never lasted as one of us would make contact again

In my opinion he is either ASD or some kind of mild sociopath

He's definitely manipulataive whereas I'm the opposite

It feels like I just keep getting f-ked over by him and left reeling then he wants me to jsut forget how bad he's made me feel and
pick up where we left off!

People on here are talking as if they have loads of friends that they have sex with as and when the urge takes them
ie they have access to numerous sophisticated social relationships and friendships

I don't!

I like to have someone to talk to each day and I did like having the sex but it was friendship that was the main thing and when he did things that upset me it made me think 'this person is not my friend' - he just pretends to be to get sex from me

Then later last year I started giving him money as he's always running out and often not got enough for heating or food and this would make me feel even more used when he'd upset me

Trying to tell him to leave me alone by email earlier today left me crying and feeling awful as it was like I was being expected to agree to go back to being treated badly again

Now I've given up and we've resumed communication I feel better but it's back to square one again!

I feel I'm permanently trapped and have no idea what my real feelings are


These details change the situation. Jealousy and telling you what to do = a clear breach of the rules/definitely crossing the line - and not just in terms of the FWB. Him demanding exclusivity and receiving money from you = bloody outrageous!

As others have said, you need to drop this guy like a hot coal. I have been in your situation with a previous "boyfriend" (technically we were supposed to be dating, but I use the term loosely due to the nature of our relationship), where he was manipulative, never returned money I gave him, and used me for sexual gratification while completely disregarding my own feelings. At one point I was trying to break it off with him about once a week, but every time (in the same way you describe) I'd keep coming back. This guy definitely had a personality disorder but he was a masterful manipulator.

In the end the only thing that finally broke me free of him was getting angry - not superficially angry, but deeply and truly angry with the kind of anger that doesn't fade overnight. Partially severing ties or expecting him to respect my decision to end things and keep his distance never worked, so the only thing that finally did work was severing ties completely in an extreme fashion - deleting him and blocking him on facebook, telling him I never wanted to hear from him again, deleting him off my phone and ignoring all incoming calls/emails from him. It was extremely tough but it worked eventually.


Also, please don't feel like most people with ASD have/are able to have a long string of FWBs and that sort of thing, or feel out of place among other Aspies due to anything I've said. Which I have a childhood Asperger's diagnosis I also have a diagnosis of Bipolar disorder 1 ultra rapid cycling which has an equal if not greater influence (as even at the time of my diagnosis with AS at age 12 I was considered high functioning for a person with AS) on my personality and lifestyle. Basically, my adult experience (after bipolar onset) is not really the norm for an ASD person.


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16 Jan 2013, 5:32 pm

metalab wrote:
I was reading an article about how my generation (I am 26) has more evolved into what is called 'Hookup Culture' and that 'Dating Culture' is dead.

What this means is, people my age don't tend to fall into committed relationships as much, and they don't do formal dating as much. They kind of just hang out and hookup and generally just go on a cycle of doing this with alot of different people.

This does seem true to me, most people my age just do things casually, meet someone, hookup, maybe meet them again, maybe be hanging out and hooking up with multiple people. Kind of wishy-washy nothing to clearly defined, alot of changing and moving around.

This made me realize why I probably have so much issue with finding any relations in my age group, and why it's probably diffucult for most aspies.

For one it takes us alot to get comfortable around a person, and two, we don't like alot of change. I think this makes us seem inherently more 'clingy'. But really its not because of some inherent insecurity in our value, it's just we can't tolerate as much fluctuation and change.

Anyone else relate to this?

I am also curious to know, do aspie females have more issue with this too? If your a female do you find it easier to just go out and hookup with people and have things concerning that be so uncertain and change alot? Is it easier for you to become comfortable with people on a sexual level quicker?


Ok I did not read through 7 pgs of this thread. I just had an immediate response from the OPs post. Yeah I do agree about the hookup culture and this wishy washy status dating stuff. Its hell as confusing at times. Ok, so I am not as fond of the freely hooking up aspect but I think I perfer the casual hanging out with people better then formal dating. For a person who gets along with the opposite sex better, if provides me with more venues to hangout with guys. But then again, I can't say cause I never grew up in a culture of formal dating (eg my parents gen). Its weird, I have to explain the way dating is now to my mom and she doesn't get it. I was very confused about what I was doing for the 3 yrs of hanging around guys cause of none of formality. It took me a very long time to figure out dating and blurry lines between hanging out and friendship. I do have to say, it has educated me about the opposite sex waaay better then formal dating ever could have.



Boxman108
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16 Jan 2013, 5:52 pm

Ai_Ling wrote:
metalab wrote:
I was reading an article about how my generation (I am 26) has more evolved into what is called 'Hookup Culture' and that 'Dating Culture' is dead.

What this means is, people my age don't tend to fall into committed relationships as much, and they don't do formal dating as much. They kind of just hang out and hookup and generally just go on a cycle of doing this with alot of different people.

This does seem true to me, most people my age just do things casually, meet someone, hookup, maybe meet them again, maybe be hanging out and hooking up with multiple people. Kind of wishy-washy nothing to clearly defined, alot of changing and moving around.

This made me realize why I probably have so much issue with finding any relations in my age group, and why it's probably diffucult for most aspies.

For one it takes us alot to get comfortable around a person, and two, we don't like alot of change. I think this makes us seem inherently more 'clingy'. But really its not because of some inherent insecurity in our value, it's just we can't tolerate as much fluctuation and change.

Anyone else relate to this?

I am also curious to know, do aspie females have more issue with this too? If your a female do you find it easier to just go out and hookup with people and have things concerning that be so uncertain and change alot? Is it easier for you to become comfortable with people on a sexual level quicker?


Ok I did not read through 7 pgs of this thread. I just had an immediate response from the OPs post. Yeah I do agree about the hookup culture and this wishy washy status dating stuff. Its hell as confusing at times. Ok, so I am not as fond of the freely hooking up aspect but I think I perfer the casual hanging out with people better then formal dating. For a person who gets along with the opposite sex better, if provides me with more venues to hangout with guys. But then again, I can't say cause I never grew up in a culture of formal dating (eg my parents gen). Its weird, I have to explain the way dating is now to my mom and she doesn't get it. I was very confused about what I was doing for the 3 yrs of hanging around guys cause of none of formality. It took me a very long time to figure out dating and blurry lines between hanging out and friendship. I do have to say, it has educated me about the opposite sex waaay better then formal dating ever could have.


Yeah, this is more what I meant. Growing up around my brother and all his friends, it seems none of them ever did any kind of formal dating, so maybe that''s part of why I don't like the idea of it so much myself.


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nessa238
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16 Jan 2013, 6:08 pm

This is how relations between the sexes used to be in medieval times before the church got involved apparently - very casual.
Then the church came along and started making everyone feel guilty for having easy relations and made them have to get married
before sex.

So it's like people are going back to pre-church times.



nessa238
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17 Jan 2013, 6:45 am

sunshower wrote:
nessa238 wrote:
Bear in mind that I'm 46, I've got Aspergers Syndrome that was only diagnosed at age 34
and the whole 'FWB' thing is new to me

All my previous relationships have been of a bf/gf nature and I have lived with several former bf's
ie standard bf/gf relationships is all I know in terms of ongoing relationships

The FWB thing is just a major head-f-k - it wants to be ongoing but gives none of the security
of a proper bf/gf relationship

Also there's still been jealousy which I find most unfair ie I was expected to be exclusive and not even talk about other men

I don't have many people to talk to so obviously someone who is prepared to chat all day online is going to seem very attractive to me

I knew I had stepped over the FWB boundary when I had strong feelings towards this person and told him I loved him

he never said I couldn't say it, he said it was a nice thing to say but he didn't say it back and as a result I felt a lot of emotional pain

I was too attached to be able to break free though

Each time he upset me by saying something thoughtless or acting in an uncaring, seemingly cruel and manipulative manner we'd have a row and I'd try and cut contact but it never lasted as one of us would make contact again

In my opinion he is either ASD or some kind of mild sociopath

He's definitely manipulataive whereas I'm the opposite

It feels like I just keep getting f-ked over by him and left reeling then he wants me to jsut forget how bad he's made me feel and
pick up where we left off!

People on here are talking as if they have loads of friends that they have sex with as and when the urge takes them
ie they have access to numerous sophisticated social relationships and friendships

I don't!

I like to have someone to talk to each day and I did like having the sex but it was friendship that was the main thing and when he did things that upset me it made me think 'this person is not my friend' - he just pretends to be to get sex from me

Then later last year I started giving him money as he's always running out and often not got enough for heating or food and this would make me feel even more used when he'd upset me

Trying to tell him to leave me alone by email earlier today left me crying and feeling awful as it was like I was being expected to agree to go back to being treated badly again

Now I've given up and we've resumed communication I feel better but it's back to square one again!

I feel I'm permanently trapped and have no idea what my real feelings are


These details change the situation. Jealousy and telling you what to do = a clear breach of the rules/definitely crossing the line - and not just in terms of the FWB. Him demanding exclusivity and receiving money from you = bloody outrageous!

As others have said, you need to drop this guy like a hot coal. I have been in your situation with a previous "boyfriend" (technically we were supposed to be dating, but I use the term loosely due to the nature of our relationship), where he was manipulative, never returned money I gave him, and used me for sexual gratification while completely disregarding my own feelings. At one point I was trying to break it off with him about once a week, but every time (in the same way you describe) I'd keep coming back. This guy definitely had a personality disorder but he was a masterful manipulator.

In the end the only thing that finally broke me free of him was getting angry - not superficially angry, but deeply and truly angry with the kind of anger that doesn't fade overnight. Partially severing ties or expecting him to respect my decision to end things and keep his distance never worked, so the only thing that finally did work was severing ties completely in an extreme fashion - deleting him and blocking him on facebook, telling him I never wanted to hear from him again, deleting him off my phone and ignoring all incoming calls/emails from him. It was extremely tough but it worked eventually.


Also, please don't feel like most people with ASD have/are able to have a long string of FWBs and that sort of thing, or feel out of place among other Aspies due to anything I've said. Which I have a childhood Asperger's diagnosis I also have a diagnosis of Bipolar disorder 1 ultra rapid cycling which has an equal if not greater influence (as even at the time of my diagnosis with AS at age 12 I was considered high functioning for a person with AS) on my personality and lifestyle. Basically, my adult experience (after bipolar onset) is not really the norm for an ASD person.


What specifically gave you the impression that this person had a personality disorder?

I think there is a lot of common ground between people with AS and those with Bipolar.



nessa238
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17 Jan 2013, 6:48 am

BlueMax wrote:
Remind me not to piss you off again. ;)

Yeah... I can understand the appeal of a sexy-but-awful person. I've known a few of those... they never end well.


Well this probably going to continue forever as we are now back talking again :oops:

I suspect he'll have to end it as I evidently don't have the willpower :(



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17 Jan 2013, 8:23 pm

nessa238 wrote:

What specifically gave you the impression that this person had a personality disorder?

I think there is a lot of common ground between people with AS and those with Bipolar.


I literally just spent ages writing a detailed response and the page refreshed on me :( :(. Suffice to say, they are different. I spoke of becoming 'super social' when up - attracting many new friends and love interests in a very short space of time, socializing nearly every day and attending many parties I have been invited to (sometimes several in one night) and loving it, making out with guys, etc. When manic, bipolar people become 'the life of the party', promiscuous, etc, and tend to become very alluring to other people due to the energy and intensity they give off. Basically it's like instant popularity, which is nothing like AS at all.

However, the symptoms reverse when they swing in the other direction, which is a lot more like AS I guess. I believe though due to my AS my reverse symptoms are much more extreme, because I'm drawing on mental energy and reserves that I don't have to maintain that extreme level of sociality, so when I come crashing down in the other direction the depressive symptoms are much more extreme than for your general bipolar person. Basically, I become completely clinically detached, want all other people to stay the hell away from me, have no interest in friendships/guys/relationships/anything whatsoever (even to the point of disliking/hating people).


In terms of the ex, he was obsessed with becoming a famous actor, believed himself to be a prodigy (had delusions of grandeur) and sometimes I believe actually experienced delusions that he was communicating with famous people or had been cast in big series (either that or was a pathological liar), was extremely emotionally manipulative to the point of being a borderline sociopath. Yeah, pretty sure he had some sort of personality disorder.


Regarding your guy, I am going to lay it out straight to you as I have been in the same situation (technically we called it a relationship but the power dynamic was no different).

From what I have read, he will never end it, as he is getting exactly what he wants from you and obviously doesn't give a s**t about your feelings. This is not a mutual FWB or mutual relationship of any kind, this is an emotionally abusive relationship.

You have got to find the willpower from somewhere and end this yourself.

Here is what to do.

Firstly, send him an email telling him that for your own health you are ending the friendship for good and do not want to see him again. Ask him to respect your decision by not contacting you or trying to get back in touch in any other way. Tell him this is the last message you will send to him.

Delete and block him from your facebook (if you use facebook). Delete and block him from your email. Regarding the phone, better at least for the first six months to leave his name on there so if/when (and he probably will try to contact you again as he does not respect you as a person or care about your well-being) he tries to contact you you will know it is him and will know not to pick up.

Ignore all phone calls, messages, emails, etc from him. Whatever you do, do not resume contact in any way. If he does send you anything after that, delete it straight away and don't read what he has said. If you do read anything he sends you, no matter what he says DO NOT RESPOND. Don't even respond to vent your anger at him, don't respond if he begs for a second chance or says he has changed, don't even respond if he says he just wants to be your friend and make up for stuff or do the right thing by you. If he is the type I think he is, he will try to manipulate you into resuming contact with him.

No matter what he says, ignore him and delete. It may be a year or longer before you hear the last of him. You have to remain strong. Remind yourself that he has emotionally manipulated and abused you. Stay angry, and stay cold. If he tries to get a response out of you by riling you up (which clearly has worked this last time), resist the temptation and DO NOT respond.


This is what you have to do, and this is the only way you will be able to break free of this toxic relationship. Your life is short and it is not worth letting someone else come in and leech away your happiness. You have to fight for yourself.


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18 Jan 2013, 9:38 am

Sunshower is right.

It's the only way to get out of it -- sometimes we get "addicted" to people. We have to quit them as though they were a toxic substance. Because in a very real emotional sense, they are.

The decision has to be for your own sake, it has to come from you.
Not because other people tell you it's what's best. The decision is impelled, not compelled.
You have to see the reality of the relationship and recognize that you, as a person, are worth something far more.
Everybody's feelings are legitimate. Everybody has a life to live, happiness to have on their own terms. Don't give yourself away to people who don't see you as a full, living human being.

(In my experience, the longer you are around such people, the more you may think of yourself as worthless, weak, dependent.)

You are worth it. These people who use you, they are not worth your time, nor energy.

It's OK. There's a whole community of people here.
Hang out with other in-the-flesh friends during this time, it will help.



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18 Jan 2013, 6:33 pm

We have made up now and I feel good about it

I think he's making more effort - he came to see me today on his bike in the snow
and told me he likes me better without my make up on

I felt happy today and not used

It's more complicated than it seems

When things are good between us they're very good and we both
love each other

We basically take comfort from the world in each other

If I wasn't seeing him I just wouldn't bother to even seek anyone else as I know he's the best
match for me, despite how he sounds

The reason I couldn't cut off from him is because I don't want to - as you say I have to be the one making the
decision and I never feel I want things to end permanently - he's too important to me

The good stuff balances out the bad in other words