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Would an autistic communist nation survive longer than a NT?

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Raptor
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01 Jun 2013, 8:20 pm

RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
For better or worse, from my own experience AS people tend to be more individualistic and 'lone wolf' on average than NT people and so would be unlikely to sacrifice their own autonomy for a strongly collectivist society.

Capitalism is a top down form of collectivism, I don't know what you are talking about.


Of course, all societies by virtue of existing has some collectivist elements, but communism and similar ideologies tend to be particularly big on it, emphasising everyone being part of a larger system and working together for the common good etc. Most AS people I know, myself included, tend to be the opposite of that, preferring to follow our own initiative and ideas rather than whatever the latest authority figure says, so I can't see an AS communist society lasting long before it tears itself apart because everyone decides to do their own thing :D

In a communist society the decisions that affect everyone are made by consensus. Nothing stops individuals from doing their own thing as long as it doesn't subordinate other people.


:roll: :roll:
What about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

Did those killings happen in classless, stateless societies? Your being intellectually dishonest again.


Mass killings under Communist regimes.
Could the title be any clearer?
If I'm being intellectually dishonest (a complement from most of this forum) then you're being intellectually impractical (to put it mildly) by trying to portray communism as anything but party/government sanctioned enslavement and genocide.


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RushKing
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01 Jun 2013, 8:30 pm

Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
For better or worse, from my own experience AS people tend to be more individualistic and 'lone wolf' on average than NT people and so would be unlikely to sacrifice their own autonomy for a strongly collectivist society.

Capitalism is a top down form of collectivism, I don't know what you are talking about.


Of course, all societies by virtue of existing has some collectivist elements, but communism and similar ideologies tend to be particularly big on it, emphasising everyone being part of a larger system and working together for the common good etc. Most AS people I know, myself included, tend to be the opposite of that, preferring to follow our own initiative and ideas rather than whatever the latest authority figure says, so I can't see an AS communist society lasting long before it tears itself apart because everyone decides to do their own thing :D

In a communist society the decisions that affect everyone are made by consensus. Nothing stops individuals from doing their own thing as long as it doesn't subordinate other people.


:roll: :roll:
What about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

Did those killings happen in classless, stateless societies? Your being intellectually dishonest again.


Mass killings under Communist regimes.
Could the title be any clearer?
If I'm being intellectually dishonest (a complement from most of this forum) then you're being intellectually impractical (to put it mildly) by trying to portray communism as anything but party/government sanctioned enslavement and genocide.

We are talking about communism, not state "socialism" which "attends" to bring about communism eventually. I hate Bolsheviks as much as you do.



Raptor
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01 Jun 2013, 8:33 pm

RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
RushKing wrote:
Jojopa wrote:
For better or worse, from my own experience AS people tend to be more individualistic and 'lone wolf' on average than NT people and so would be unlikely to sacrifice their own autonomy for a strongly collectivist society.

Capitalism is a top down form of collectivism, I don't know what you are talking about.


Of course, all societies by virtue of existing has some collectivist elements, but communism and similar ideologies tend to be particularly big on it, emphasising everyone being part of a larger system and working together for the common good etc. Most AS people I know, myself included, tend to be the opposite of that, preferring to follow our own initiative and ideas rather than whatever the latest authority figure says, so I can't see an AS communist society lasting long before it tears itself apart because everyone decides to do their own thing :D

In a communist society the decisions that affect everyone are made by consensus. Nothing stops individuals from doing their own thing as long as it doesn't subordinate other people.


:roll: :roll:
What about this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_Communist_regimes

Did those killings happen in classless, stateless societies? Your being intellectually dishonest again.


Mass killings under Communist regimes.
Could the title be any clearer?
If I'm being intellectually dishonest (a complement from most of this forum) then you're being intellectually impractical (to put it mildly) by trying to portray communism as anything but party/government sanctioned enslavement and genocide.

We are talking about communism, not state "socialism" which "attends" to bring about communism eventually. I hate Bolsheviks as much as you do.


Communism is as communism does.
History has already been made and your workers (slackers) paradise experiment has failed.
Nuff said.


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01 Jun 2013, 8:37 pm

Please use "Post reply" when you're making follow-on posts like this with no reason to quote.
It's just a waste of screen space to keep endlessly quoting what doesn't need to be quoted.


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RushKing
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01 Jun 2013, 8:40 pm

Communism (Economic system) =/= "Communist" bureaucrats



GGPViper
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02 Jun 2013, 5:56 am

As most threads involving communism tend to do, this one has rapidly ventured into No True Scotsman territory... :roll:



RushKing
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02 Jun 2013, 12:02 pm

GGPViper wrote:
As most threads involving communism tend to do, this one has rapidly ventured into No True Scotsman territory... :roll:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism

You two are implying because I advocate communism I advocate state power. Lenin and Stalin's transitional stage is not communism. They could of thought they were leading the country towards communism, but that doesn't make the economic system communist, it was state socialism. I haven't made any logical fallacys.



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02 Jun 2013, 12:53 pm

"The proletariat will use its political supremacy to wrest, by degree, all capital from the bourgeoisie, to centralise all instruments of production in the hands of the State, i.e., of the proletariat organised as the ruling class; and to increase the total productive forces as rapidly as possible."

Does it sound familiar?

Oh, wait... that quote wasn't a *true* communist quote, right?



RushKing
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02 Jun 2013, 1:03 pm

I never said Karl Marx wasn't a communist, that quote is describing state socialism, the thing he thought would eventually lead to Communism. You are now just resorting to bully tactics.



ruveyn
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02 Jun 2013, 1:07 pm

Historical fact has proved just how far removed from reality Karl Marx was.

Whenever the Proles take over the only activity that will succeed is f*cking and excessive beer drinking.

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02 Jun 2013, 1:21 pm

Nope implementing and maintaining a communist nation goes against human nature and will fail long term, no matter if the society is autistic or non-autistic. Same goes for any "pure" ideological system including a Capitalistic society.

I do not believe in such extremist ideals and think a mixture of various ideals/laws works the best.



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02 Jun 2013, 4:44 pm

Quote:
Whenever the Proles take over the only activity that will succeed is f*cking and excessive beer drinking.

That and punishing their bourgeois enemies, real and imaginary.....


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02 Jun 2013, 6:23 pm

The Proles do not take over but rather decide who their leaders will be.



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02 Jun 2013, 7:47 pm

Grimdalus wrote:
Dox47 wrote:
Grimdalus wrote:
vanhalenkurtz wrote:
Grimdalus wrote:
Disclaimer: Any bashing of communism, Ho Chi Minh, Leon Trotsky and/or Vladimir Lenin will not be tolerated.


BANG!

Elaboration?


I think they're pointing out what would happen to anyone who criticized one of those men while under their regime...

Uncle Ho? Unlikely. He was a fair man. Trotsky? Possibly, but he was for communist democracy. Lenin? No. Lenin was a good man. They were al benevolent people.


I assume that you are being facetious.



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02 Jun 2013, 7:50 pm

Of course it would mean order routine and efficiency!


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eric76
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02 Jun 2013, 8:07 pm

Grimdalus wrote:
Stop being straw man and claiming I am spoilt. The USSR stopped being true communist when Stalin rose to power. USSR is like the first French Republic. The amazing wealth that will not be shared. The whole concept of communism is fairness.


You would define fairness as being equality at the lowest common denominator? Nobody is permitted to excel above others because it would be unfair to the lowest?