Page 11 of 15 [ 228 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15  Next

AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

16 Apr 2018, 10:54 am

XFilesGeek wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Are we seriously saying positive things about Ayn Rand in this thread?

Ayn Rand was a "free-market capitalist". "Free-market capitalism" existed in old England, and it was a nightmare. Men had to work hard every day and they made just enough money to live, meaning that they could never accumulate wealth. Women were often forced into prostitution because other businesses were not required to hire women. Children and old people worked in mines. Parents abandoned children that they could not feed. Orphanages barely provided innocent children with enough food. Disabled people were dying left and right. People choked to death on the industrial smog that filled the air.

Do conservatives seriously want to re-create the society which inspired Oliver Twist? Is that what you call freedom? Are you seriously saying that the modern world is a "plantation" that keeps people poor? Poppycock.

Image

There’s free market capitalism and then there’s crony capitalism. Big difference.

The MODERN world, yes. Thankfully we aren’t bound by modernist ideals. But, yes. A society that thrives on keeping it’s constituents drugged and dependent on government programs for basic necessities and dope is a plantation that keeps people poor. There’s no reward for excellence or achievement. There’s no motivation to innovate. Just keep “the Party” in power and the academic elites rich and we’ll all be just fine. And if you think it’s unfair that your neighbor has a better home and more food than you, you best keep your mouth shut.

That’s not the world I choose to live in.


My mother and I both receive disability checks.

Taking them away would not suddenly make us "innovative" and "creative."

It would make us destitute.

Ah, but that’s due to disability. A good capitalist is going to look at people with disabilities and see someone who has value regardless of their ability. Someone who practices rational self-interest is going to see an opportunity to invest in the well-being of those unable to help themselves because they possess the potential to still enhance the quality of life of the rest of society through at least their ideas. If nothing else, from the perspective of rational self-interest, one hopes that the good one does for others will be recognized and repaid when his own time of need comes.

The cause of disability has to be accounted for, as well. If disability is undesirable for those with it, then the objectivist (because he values others) will seek to also invest in new technologies to accommodate, alleviate, or eliminate the cause of disability.

The objectivist/capitalist sees the potential in EVERY human being and through freedom tries to create a better world for all. It looks like altruism in practice, but there is no room for altruism in objectivist thought. To the objectivist capitalist, continued investment in human capital that lacks any ability or desire to benefit humanity is an exercise in insanity. Disabled people are valuable in that helping them brings deeper understanding to the disability and thus benefits EVERYONE, not just those who are disabled, but those who love them and share their burden. The objectivist would see a drug addict and say, “poor guy” and try to help him escape his addiction. The objectivist cannot rationally sympathize with someone who has been cured of an addiction over and over again only to run right back to the needle, the bottle, or the pill. He would say, “well, if that’s what he wants to do...”. But he’d be crazy to intervene if he knows his efforts are a waste of time, energy, and money.

The collectivist champions state-demanded altruism. It puts everyone on equal footing without regard to ability or merit and rewards everyone equally. You need not work or participate to receive the reward. But if you do participate, it’s with the understanding that you gain nothing extra for your hard work. There’s no incentive to do anything great.

You end up with a power class and an underclass. Those at the top become wealthy off the backs of the citizenry all the while promising equality and justice. If you ever actually ACHIEVE equality, the ride is over. No more revolution. No more struggle. Without that, there is no power. So what you do is create dependency. Opioids, legal cannabis, alcohol, anti-anxiety meds. And you set up agencies through which those things can be either obtained or regulated.

You don’t cure cancer. You just make better chemo to keep people sick longer. You don’t make an AIDS vacccine. You just moderate the body’s immune response to keep HIV counts low. You don’t cure opioid addiction. You cause it by making opioids the first line of defense in treating pain. And then after they’re nearly dead after switching to heroin and fentanyl, you keep them coming back to the methadone clinic.

You don’t reward workers by giving them raises. You give them unions to “negotiate” for them while forcing them to pay dues that ultimately go into union boss pockets and political party donations.

And don’t get me started on public schools.

So...yeah...keep them poor, keep them drugged, keep them ignorant.

And if you are disabled and think these people only want to help you...

I have to stop right there. I just can’t keep going. There are crooked leftists and crony capitalists. There are many strands in between. I prefer the side that allows me the freedom to choose, not the side that only gives me the illusion of freedom. Capitalism gives you a chance while collectivism/statism/socialism keeps you in a permanent underclass.



DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,105
Location: The Infodome

16 Apr 2018, 6:40 pm

AngelRho wrote:
There’s free market capitalism and then there’s crony capitalism. Big difference.


Not really.

A "free-market capitalist" society wouldn't last long. The rich would rig elections and create crony capitalism unless laws regulating campaign finance were introduced.

One of the biggest problems with America is that, despite all of its other regulations, there are no laws regulating electoral campaign finance.

Quote:
The MODERN world, yes. Thankfully we aren’t bound by modernist ideals. But, yes. A society that thrives on keeping it’s constituents drugged and dependent on government programs for basic necessities and dope is a plantation that keeps people poor.


WHAT? This is just surreal.

FACT: Drug problems are more common in societies without a social safety net. In societies which treat drug problems as illnesses and provide free treatment, there are far fewer drug issues.

Most people on welfare will get back to work once the economy improves. Oftentimes, people can't find a job because the unregulated economy goes through cycles and sometimes jobs are hard to find.

How is modern welfare anything like slavery? I never see the government putting welfare recipients in shackles and then whipping them. This is surreal.

Quote:
There’s no reward for excellence or achievement.


Bollocks. Most achievers do it for the glory, not for the money. When a society relies on financial incentives as a motivator, this naturally creates thieves and scammers. Didn't Jesus say something about that?

"I don't make movies to make money, I make money to make movies."
— Walt Disney

Quote:
There’s no motivation to innovate.


... and yet there is still a ton of innovation in the West ... even though most Western countries have a social safety net.

Quote:
Just keep “the Party” in power and the academic elites rich and we’ll all be just fine.


What the Hell are academic elites? You seem to think that all smart people are arrogant.

Are you talking about the people who take business classes just to make money ... or are you talking about the scientists and historians who just want to help humanity?

Quote:
And if you think it’s unfair that your neighbor has a better home and more food than you, you best keep your mouth shut.


You just described "free-market capitalism".

Quote:
That’s not the world I choose to live in.


I don't choose to live in that world either. If I wanted to live in a "free-market capitalist" world, I would move to the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The Democratic Republic of Congo is also, statistically, more Christian than the United States is. Perhaps conservatives should move there so that they understand what "rugged individualism" is really like.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

17 Apr 2018, 6:50 am

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
AngelRho wrote:
There’s free market capitalism and then there’s crony capitalism. Big difference.


Not really.

A "free-market capitalist" society wouldn't last long. The rich would rig elections and create crony capitalism unless laws regulating campaign finance were introduced.

One of the biggest problems with America is that, despite all of its other regulations, there are no laws regulating electoral campaign finance.

Quote:
The MODERN world, yes. Thankfully we aren’t bound by modernist ideals. But, yes. A society that thrives on keeping it’s constituents drugged and dependent on government programs for basic necessities and dope is a plantation that keeps people poor.


WHAT? This is just surreal.

FACT: Drug problems are more common in societies without a social safety net. In societies which treat drug problems as illnesses and provide free treatment, there are far fewer drug issues.

Most people on welfare will get back to work once the economy improves. Oftentimes, people can't find a job because the unregulated economy goes through cycles and sometimes jobs are hard to find.

How is modern welfare anything like slavery? I never see the government putting welfare recipients in shackles and then whipping them. This is surreal.

Quote:
There’s no reward for excellence or achievement.


Bollocks. Most achievers do it for the glory, not for the money. When a society relies on financial incentives as a motivator, this naturally creates thieves and scammers. Didn't Jesus say something about that?

"I don't make movies to make money, I make money to make movies."
— Walt Disney

Quote:
There’s no motivation to innovate.


... and yet there is still a ton of innovation in the West ... even though most Western countries have a social safety net.

Quote:
Just keep “the Party” in power and the academic elites rich and we’ll all be just fine.


What the Hell are academic elites? You seem to think that all smart people are arrogant.

Are you talking about the people who take business classes just to make money ... or are you talking about the scientists and historians who just want to help humanity?

Quote:
And if you think it’s unfair that your neighbor has a better home and more food than you, you best keep your mouth shut.


You just described "free-market capitalism".

Quote:
That’s not the world I choose to live in.


I don't choose to live in that world either. If I wanted to live in a "free-market capitalist" world, I would move to the Democratic Republic of Congo.

The Democratic Republic of Congo is also, statistically, more Christian than the United States is. Perhaps conservatives should move there so that they understand what "rugged individualism" is really like.

Hmmm...interesting response.

One problem of the socialist or anti-capitalist mindset is that it pits the have-nots against the haves. It normalizes the idea that those with money and freedom are the enemy of the poor. And that’s really a lie perpetuated by statists, socialists, anti-capitalists, and whatnot. The poor always have the opportunity.

Socialist programs do the opposite. One problem I see on a daily basis with welfare is that such programs create a gap between what welfare offers and the kind of work you’d have to do to do better than welfare. People get trapped in welfare because starting a new job means accepting lower income. It takes time to “build up steam” in a career. By permanently taking people out of the job market and discouraging them from improving themselves, statist programs create a dependency that the poor find difficult to break.

I’ve been there myself. I’ve waited in lines at WIC. I’ve sat in the health department waiting room literally all day just to get vaccinations for my children. And I’ve been grateful for just getting a little help at a bad time. I don’t begrudge anyone help in just getting back on their feet.

But I also know what it’s like to be turned down for other forms of assistance because I’m married, or I “make too much money” even though I couldn’t pay bills and our lights and water were turned off. We’ve known people who hadn’t been employed for years who were doing better than we were.

So, yeah, I know for a fact that the system creates dependency. And dependents do look at people like us with contempt because of skin color and the fact that we are trying and, sometimes, doing a little bit better than keeping our heads above water.

Where we have really thrived was when individuals helped us. Wealthier friends of ours have given my wife practically a whole new wardrobe just because they were, wink wink, nudge nudge “cleaning out their closets.” Our daughter has niiiiice clothes that fit because a friend’s daughter outgrew her stuff. People think we have a lot of money when most everything we have was given to us. And when our kids outgrow clothes, we give all our stuff away, too.

I never quite understand WHY, but people value us for some reason. I’m a part time teacher and church musician; wife is a former teaching assistant and current administrative assistant at the school. Maybe we do good work above and beyond our pay grade and people want us to stick around.

Thing is, welfare already exists in capitalism and always has. And individuals and companies thrive best when they INVEST in human capital.

Another example that happened to us recently: we bought a matching washer/dryer set at Lowe’s, which was a big mistake because big box stores sell cheaply made goods that are disposable and force return customers. So...naturally when our front-loading washer died, we were unable to have it serviced. So we called a friend who repairs and sells appliances and eventually bought a commercial-grade Speed Queen. We’d waited nearly a year for a replacement part which never materialized, and then the loaner washer we’d been using died. Fast-forward a year. Our dryer died. So assuming the worst, which wasn’t the smartest thing we could have done, we bought the matching Speed Queen dryer. I went to the store, paid in cash, and no sooner than I showed up to pay the store owner was already at my house installing the new dryer. Later that night, not three laundry loads in we smelled smoke and heard something like gunfire from our laundry room. We aired out the room and cut the power. The next day we had our man take a look at the dryer. Turns out there was nothing wrong with it. The outlet had worn out and turned resister.

So they ended up with a perfectly working dryer and all of our cash. He put our dryer up for sale for store credit and had an electrician bill him for repairing our outlet so that we were out nothing for the whole debacle.

In other words...

They were honest. They took care of us when they didn’t have to. So when we need help again, guess who we’re giving our business to? Hint: NOT Lowe’s.

You have capitalism done right and capitalism done wrong. Individuals and businesses fail when they don’t value the people they serve. If you have a problem with how someone does business, you don’t give them your money. If you support what someone does, you give them your money to help them keep building the community.

Keeping people trapped in a cycle of dependency kills opportunity. Bad actors thrive under socialism because people can't “vote with their money.”



League_Girl
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Feb 2010
Gender: Female
Posts: 27,205
Location: Pacific Northwest

22 Apr 2018, 10:12 am

I don't really like conservatives. Every one of them I have seen all seem to have bigoted views and be very closed minded and have no empathy and passion for others. My ex was one of them too. I find it ironic anyone with a disability would hold these views too because I would think they would have more passion because of their own struggles. And some people are mixed between liberal and conservative. Like for example, they might be against abortions but be fine with welfare because they have to be on it due to their disability and it affects their employment so they need to be on it or else they would be in the streets without it and would have to rely on family for support.


_________________
Son: Diagnosed w/anxiety and ADHD. Also academic delayed.

Daughter: NT, no diagnoses.


PurplePlumz
Toucan
Toucan

Joined: 4 Mar 2018
Gender: Male
Posts: 251
Location: Germany

22 Apr 2018, 3:31 pm

I'm an aspie, and I think I identify as a centrist.



Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,529
Location: Houston, Texas

22 Apr 2018, 3:52 pm

I do think this should be worded as "do we dislike conservatism", rather than "conservatives".


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


Biscuitman
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 2,665
Location: Dunking jammy dodgers

22 Apr 2018, 3:53 pm

conservatism is about self interest. How one can keep more of their tax money, how one can stop funding societies health care etc.



Tim_Tex
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 2 Jul 2004
Age: 44
Gender: Male
Posts: 45,529
Location: Houston, Texas

22 Apr 2018, 3:53 pm

PurplePlumz wrote:
I'm an aspie, and I think I identify as a centrist.


Great minds think alike! It's sad that we get squeezed out.


_________________
Who’s better at math than a robot? They’re made of math!

Now proficient in ChatGPT!


Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

22 Apr 2018, 8:32 pm

League_Girl wrote:
I don't really like conservatives. Every one of them I have seen all seem to have bigoted views and be very closed minded and have no empathy and passion for others. My ex was one of them too. I find it ironic anyone with a disability would hold these views too because I would think they would have more passion because of their own struggles. And some people are mixed between liberal and conservative. Like for example, they might be against abortions but be fine with welfare because they have to be on it due to their disability and it affects their employment so they need to be on it or else they would be in the streets without it and would have to rely on family for support.


In my experience liberals just disguise their bigotry, are only selectively open minded, and selective about who they have empathy for, all the while criticizing others for being bigots, closed minded, and lacking empathy.


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


CockneyRebel
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Age: 49
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,547
Location: Stalag 13

02 May 2018, 8:58 pm

I'm one of those conservatives that the SJWs warned you about.


_________________
Who wants to adopt a Sweet Pea?


DarthMetaKnight
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 16 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 6,105
Location: The Infodome

02 May 2018, 9:27 pm

Raptor wrote:
In my experience liberals just disguise their bigotry, are only selectively open minded, and selective about who they have empathy for, all the while criticizing others for being bigots, closed minded, and lacking empathy.


For the record, I am not open-minded.

I will only believe in something if it's true.

Most people who call themselves "open minded" are people who believe in astrology, fortune telling, and other forms of hippie quackery.


_________________
Synthetic carbo-polymers got em through man. They got em through mouse. They got through, and we're gonna get out.
-Roostre

READ THIS -> https://represent.us/


Raptor
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 8 Mar 2007
Gender: Male
Posts: 12,997
Location: Southeast U.S.A.

02 May 2018, 9:47 pm

DarthMetaKnight wrote:
Raptor wrote:
In my experience liberals just disguise their bigotry, are only selectively open minded, and selective about who they have empathy for, all the while criticizing others for being bigots, closed minded, and lacking empathy.


For the record, I am not open-minded.


I'll sleep better knowing that........even though it's been obvious all along.

Now go report me for something so you'll sleep better tonight, too. Just make up something...


_________________
"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
- Thomas Jefferson


Misslizard
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 18 Jun 2012
Age: 59
Gender: Female
Posts: 20,471
Location: Aux Arcs

04 May 2018, 1:52 pm

They’re all right if prepared properly.First they must be tenderized as they are usually tough and stringy.Them marinate overnight to remove bitterness.The organs are usually worthless,sometimes they don’t have a heart or it’s all dried up,the liver is always full of bile.
Just toss them out.
Dip in egg,roll in flour then fry till crunchy.Yum.


_________________
I am the dust that dances in the light. - Rumi


auntblabby
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Feb 2010
Gender: Male
Posts: 113,737
Location: the island of defective toy santas

05 May 2018, 5:21 am

they would make me prefer being a vegan.



AngelRho
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 4 Jan 2008
Age: 45
Gender: Male
Posts: 9,366
Location: The Landmass between N.O. and Mobile

05 May 2018, 5:47 am

auntblabby wrote:
they would make me prefer being a vegan.

Good to know we have an evolutionary advantage. ;-)



LoveNotHate
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 12 Oct 2013
Gender: Female
Posts: 6,195
Location: USA

05 May 2018, 6:12 pm

sly279 wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
XFilesGeek wrote:
LoveNotHate wrote:
Quote:
Do aspies generally dislike conservatives?

This site seems dominated by very poor people.

In real life, success is met with "THAT'S GRRREEAT!".

On WP, *SUCCESS* is often considered offensive.

Considered offensive:
-The success people can gain from capitalism
-The success people have from hard work and education.
-The success people have from landing a high paying job.
-The success of being able to live in a nice neighborhood.
-The success of growing up poor and "making it".
-The success of buying expensive things.

Likely considered non-offensive:
-You're miserable because, "the system" has failed you.
-Capitalism is suppressing you.
-"The rich" are actively out to get you.
-You believe that hard work and education are not rewarded.
-You believe the Horatio Alger story is a myth.


Disabled people are usually poor, and the "system" has failed them.

Autism is a disability.

I've worked hard, and am still broke.

The headline put out ASD spokespeople like Temple Grandin is that many ASD people are actually super-successful.

"Half of Silicon Valley has mild ASD"
https://www.mercurynews.com/2014/01/21/ ... ld-autism/

"NASA is a shelter for ASD people"

Temple Grandin herself had a movie made about how successful she became.

The message is that it's not a disability.


Diagnosed?
Cause people like to call anyone slightly odd aspies.

It was super easy for me to get a ASD diagnosis ... just by having brain damage.

Took me 45 mins. I walked in , saw two doctors, got diagnosis (after they ruled out schizophrenia).

Follow-up, seen 3-5 doctors, and 1 autism specialist over successive appointments at other hospital, again, an ASD diagnosis.

Don't know if I just have "brain damage" or an ASD or if there's even a difference.

I have said this a few times ... I have had "flat affect" my whole life and to me that feels like "brain damage" ... it feels like I should be out experiencing life .. smiling, laughing, participating in life ... instead .. my brain is "injured" in that way.


_________________
After a failure, the easiest thing to do is to blame someone else.