My three (or four) dates....

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Brianruns10
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26 Oct 2013, 10:39 pm

Boy what a story I have to tell. I'm trying, really, really hard to rewire myself, to just be more positive and outgonig and confident. However, I still find it too difficult to try and meet people in person...it just is still too nerve wracking, and I doubt I could engage a stranger of the opposite sex in a conversation if I was paid to do it!

So against my better judgment, I went back to online dating. And would you believe that In a span of three weeks I had three dates with three different women? But man o man how those went down.

The first went quite well. I met a woman, a researcher studying to get a graduate degree, at the local art gallery. We toured exhibits, including one on portraiture, before getting dinner at a local Italian spot. It was a great time, and I said as much when I contacted her the next day. Later, I asked her to a second date, and from then on she stopped replying.

So I moved on to woman number 2. We were going to meet for lunch and a movie, but she said she was feeling under the weather, and asked if we could just do the movie. I said no prob, and we did the movie together. However she really WAS under the weather because she promptly puked her guts out once we left the theater. But this didn't dissuade me at all. Rather it charmed me, because if she was willing to meet me despite being so sick, she must really be good at heart. I assured her she shouldn't be embarrassed, and I said I wanted to see her again I wrote he an email afterwards, reiterating how I wanted to meet again, and hoped she wouldn't worry that I'd be so petty as to let what happen colour my perception of her. But she never responded back, and deleted her account online. I don't know what to make of it. The pessimist in me wants to say, "Even though she was sick, she could still tell she didn't want me." I try not to think like that, but I wish she'd kept in touch.

Which brings me to woman number 3. We met for a movie and drinks. She was incredibly vivacious and fun to talk to, and we chatted for hours after the movie. It seemed we hit it off, and exchanged numbers!

And a week later, we met again! Toured a local art show, then retired to my place for drinks. We talked into the night, and confided in each other. I actually revealed I was autistic, and she talked about her troubled family and her believe she may have autism as well, though she was diagnosed as BHPD. I felt so complimented she was willing to confide in me and after it all, she let me kiss her on the cheek!

But since the, our communication has been spotty. I try calling, but no reply. We text back and forth, but it's mostly me who does it. But largely she is silent. A week ago she said her non profit group that employed her was going through the some changes, and she was probably leaving. Maybe this is why she's silent. I don't know. I wish after all the confiding we did, that she might let me in more. I want to make this work, but I feel I'm doing everything, and I wish she'd call me up, or invite me out and not the other way around. I invited her to an event in a couple of weeks, but she says she already have plans...I suspect she's lying to me.

So all in all, out of three dates, I still can't seem to break my two date curse. I can't get to date three! And I cant' get a girlfriend. And the idea of a woman being attracted to me, thinking of me, and reaching out to me half way just feels so alien because no woman has ever done that for me. It was always one sided.

I keep in touch with a good friend, a woman, who lives in LA. We chat about our dating foibles, and she mentioned a guy she liked, and how she asked him to a concert. And I was dumbstruck. That has NEVER happened, where a woman has asked me out. How I wish someone would, so I'd know a woman out there found me attractive. How I'd love to feel sexy and desirable to someone. How I'd love to know that someone is thinking of me!

So that's where I'm at. More or less square one, trying to figure out where to go from here, or if I should? When is it time to just accept it won't happen? Ten years now I've been trying, and can't even get past a second date. Is the problem me? How do I fix ME?



FMX
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27 Oct 2013, 3:46 am

I have no advice for you, but I don't think it's just you. Even if there is something wrong with you (in the women's opinions), after they went on a date with you (implying they are at least somewhat interested) and you sent them a message they owe you some kind of response, even if it's a one-liner. That is just my opinion, of course and clearly they disagree! However, I feel strongly that this reflects very poorly on them. Of course, there may be good reasons in specific cases. Maybe the email gets lost or the woman hits her head and forgets everything that happened in the last 2 weeks or she gets abducted by aliens, whatever... Going by the posts in this forum, though, it seems too common to be explained by exceptional scenarios. It's certainly not encouraging me to try online dating!


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MadeUnderground
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27 Oct 2013, 4:00 am

I dunno what to tell you.

Online dating is a hit or miss. I've met two past girlfriends through facebook, and two or three (I honestly can't remember the exact number) on a dating website and one (believe it or not) on craigslist 8O

Anyway, facebook I had the best results. However the circumstances were a bit different. I had found them in a group our university made for students that would be graduating a certain year. (U of Blah, class of whatever), like that.
So we'd start chatting online during the summer before school started and then hit it off in the Fall.

The online dating websites were not really that great. I had a better time with the girl I met on craigslist than the two (or three?? idk) on the online dating website.

I think one of the best ways to find someone is be friends with them first for a while. Plunging headfirst into dating never really worked out for me.

Now from past experiences I've learned how to avoid getting into the friend zone while maintaining to be a woman's friend before dating.
Within the first two weeks or so of knowing her as a friend, I make it clear that I like her by obvious flirting and things like that. My flirting will increase if she flirts back, or it will cease if she doesn't seem to be digging me in that way.

I'll keep it up for anywhere between 2 weeks to two months depending on the circumstances and the girl before I ask her for a date.

Now I'm not saying that this is going to be successful for anyone else but it has always worked for me. Not once have I ever built a flirtatious rapport with a girl for a short period of time then asked her for a date and been rejected.
I've done this plenty of times. I can't recall the exact number but maybe somewhere between 8 and 12 times?

If it's at all possible for you OP to meet a new girl and just be friends with her for a short period of time while building a rapport and making sure to lay the flirting down obvious enough to where she knows you like her (or just say it at some point), then ask her out, I think you'll have much better luck.

Like I said, everyone is different but this is what's always worked for me. Meeting someone and then dating them immediately has never ever worked for me.

Good luck OP.


EDIT: I'd also like to add that the reason why I even brought up my way about getting dates is because those dates always turned into relationships. Sorry I forgot to mention that, since that seems to be your issue.. Not getting a date but repeated dates and inevitably a relationship.

Try that way. Plus when you're building a rapport with the girl before you ask her out you get a feel for her before anything "official" happens. Maybe as you get to know her more you decide you don't even want to ask the girl out in the first place. Who knows?



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27 Oct 2013, 5:02 am

Hey there. You're trying to 'rewire' yourself, rather than play victim - well done. But you sound like you're starting to beat yourself up a little bit.

Rather than have a great time on the first date, going and doing things - I didn't tend to bother. All those things come later, when you're dating properly (unless it's clear that me and the woman share a similar romantic streak). Most people get it the other way round. Also, many women feel uncomfortable having a meal with a virtual stranger. And it costs money which you could be investing in someone else another time, or her later down the track (please tell me that you didn't pay for all of it). I'd concentrate on seeing what the woman was like, testing her out, to see if she was worth all the time and effort. That's doing everyone a favor.

Woman Two - well, maybe by being chivalrous, you made her more uncomfortable. Or not. And maybe she was just too embarrassed. Who knows. It may have nothing to do with you. Sometimes, you don't get an answer, and the best way forward is to suspend judgement.

Woman Three - this, in my view, would be very irritating for most men. However, you've got to understand, that for many women dating isn't always the number one priority. Unless you 'knock her off her feet' (and I'm not saying you should even try), she knows that she'll be able to find an 'average' man pretty much whenever she wants. So the situation probably has more at stake for you than her. And in the time together, you just didn't show her that you were above 'average', or maybe she's just not dating, or maybe it was a fleeting idea, or maybe she's seeing someone else...or a million and one reasons. Perhaps you came over like too much of a friend. Don't get the hump, things happen.

Idea - give it two weeks of silence, and ask her to do you a favour - for her to tell you exactly why things went the way they went, so it helps you meet the 'right' person for you. Make it clear that you know you're not that person for her, so she knows you're not being a pest. You never know, you could get some very valuable information. Of course, you could just get fobbed off, but you should know the difference.

I'd reevaluate your dates in terms of this - are you moving forward on this:

Quote:
However, I still find it too difficult to try and meet people in person...it just is still too nerve wracking, and I doubt I could engage a stranger of the opposite sex in a conversation if I was paid to do it!
Were you engaging, did you build some natural rapport?

One thing that strikes me about all three dates - you seem to like all of them. It's almost like you are hoping they will choose you, rather than actually seeing who is suitable for you and disqualifying. And the kiss on the cheek - come on. You're seeing that as a favour she is giving you. In fact, sorry, this (and other things) shout that you are seeing yourself as at least a little inferior to women, and they are doing you a favour even showing up. Perhaps if you realised that you are doing them a favour by giving them the pleasure of your company, and really believed it, you would see a lot of things change.

Quote:
And the idea of a woman being attracted to me, thinking of me, and reaching out to me half way just feels so alien because no woman has ever done that for me
If you 'lean back' a little, metaphorically, and allow this to happen - and to change your limiting 'alien' feeling - you might be surprised. And, if they don't - are they worth it anyway? Do you want someone so stuck in their own world anyway? Not everyone gives a lot of themselves. If you filter them out, then you've saved yourself much time.

So, zero out of three - that's very common. Why take it so seriously? Have another go, but try something a little different, and try dating a little more like a woman? I wish you well.



Last edited by octobertiger on 27 Oct 2013, 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

JanuaryMan
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27 Oct 2013, 5:07 am

Kudos on rewiring yourself. It's not easy and you will find certain habits or ways of thinking will try to get the better of you but over time it does get easier.
Don't feel bad about making mistakes and try not to dwell on them. We all make mistakes. It will show as a sign of weakness or come across as weird/creepy if you do (like you've put them on a pedestal or they're your only chance with a date). If you make a slight mistake just be dismissive about it unless they actually seem uncomfortable by it or have made it clear it's a problem. Everyone has their quirks, it's part of what makes us interesting ;)

I have to agree with FMX. In some cases it might just be you overthinking things that is ruining your chances rather than anything you actually did.
Edit: Corrected grammar and added some points. It's too early for this! lol :tongue:



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28 Oct 2013, 10:30 am

I'd like to echo the Kudos for your rewiring attempt. Octobertiger gave the best advice here:

octobertiger wrote:
One thing that strikes me about all three dates - you seem to like all of them. It's almost like you are hoping they will choose you, rather than actually seeing who is suitable for you and disqualifying. And the kiss on the cheek - come on. You're seeing that as a favour she is giving you. In fact, sorry, this (and other things) shout that you are seeing yourself as at least a little inferior to women, and they are doing you a favour even showing up. Perhaps if you realised that you are doing them a favour by giving them the pleasure of your company, and really believed it, you would see a lot of things change.


You still seem to hoping a girl (any girl) will "settle" for you. Desperation is very unattractive.



lammiu
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28 Oct 2013, 11:10 am

Agreed with you guys. Women generally attracted to someone that they can respect in certain areas. The fact that 3 of them go out with you, I think your appearance and profile is ok. The fact that most of your dated didn't pass 3, probably there is certain turn off behaviour that you didn't realise yourself. I agree with OctoberTiger that humbling yourself and always ask genuinely to know why they have stopped dating you is a very mature way to improve yourself and get better chance to success on the next chance. I think being desperate will make you seems too pushy and low in self esteem. Women always look for someone who is confident and has some areas that we can respect. Always make sure that you are listening and not dominate the whole conversation and observe facial expressions. Aspies tends to think black and white. When their conversation is on the negative side, they don't notice it and make people uncomfortable. I think all conversation should be positive if you're serious about your chance of successful dating.



Brianruns10
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28 Oct 2013, 12:34 pm

Everyone seems to say that you can't act over eager or that desperation is something people can pick up on, but I just don't know. I don't THINK I exude those sentiments. I try to be outgoing and charming and nice to my dates. I'm trying to show them my very best side, to hopefully convince them that I'm worth taking a chance on.

You are right though in that I liked all three women. But that was only based on one or two dates. I just don't think that's enough to really get to know somebody. All I come away with is wanting to go further and see where things lead. I'm trying not to be choosy or let shallow things like looks or income guide whom I choose. I try to really know the person deep down, and all the women I've gone on dates with have impressed me in this regard, and I've been excited by the prospects of seeing them further. But they don't share the sentiment.

It's hard, you know? I'm trying to be confident and to really approach this positively, but after a while it's hard to keep up the front when there is just so little success achieved.

As for the suggestion about befriending someone and taking things as they come...I have so many mixed feelings and trepidiation about this path. Don't get me wrong, I wish it could work this way. I've tried in the past. But every time, what wound up happening was either I got securely in the friend zone because she didn't perceive me as eager enough...or when I finally made my feelings overt, they were not reciprocal, and it cost me the friendship. They just quit hanging out with me, like I'm poison or something, or like they're afraid that I won't be able to control myself if we're alone or something. Which of course is far from the truth, I'm completely capable of a plataonic relationship, and I hate losing a friend because I dared to make my feelings known, which is what women want, right? Emotional honesty????

So I just simply have ruled out the idea of friendship leading to a relationship. Dating outright is safer. But of course dating is its own problem because I feel I'm at my best when someone gets to know me.

On first appraisal, I know I'm no one's idea of a catch. I don't keep up with the latest fashions, my interests and passions are hardly sexy or masculine, I don't make much money (yet), and I've got a lot of big dreams, but nothing much yet to show for it apart from ambition.

I feel in some ways sorry for the woman who goes on a date with me, because I just feel like, "God, is she going to take one look at me and be disappointed?" But I KNOW, deep down, I have something worth giving to somebody. And I'm not clinging to some unrealistic notion of what I want in a woman. I'm not after model good looks. Just someone who is good at heart, who has her own dreams that she might want to share with me, and vice versa.

I'd love to find someone like that. I'd love to find someone who calls me every once in a while, instead of always me doing the calling. Someone who thinks about me, like I think about them. I'd really love that. As is, I've never really known that feeling, known what it is like to be desired by somebody. How I'd love for someone out there to want me, to think about me, to even find me sexy. That would be marvelous!



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28 Oct 2013, 12:44 pm

Brianruns10 wrote:
Everyone seems to say that you can't act over eager or that desperation is something people can pick up on, but I just don't know. I don't THINK I exude those sentiments. I try to be outgoing and charming and nice to my dates. I'm trying to show them my very best side, to hopefully convince them that I'm worth taking a chance on.

You are right though in that I liked all three women. But that was only based on one or two dates. I just don't think that's enough to really get to know somebody. All I come away with is wanting to go further and see where things lead. I'm trying not to be choosy or let shallow things like looks or income guide whom I choose. I try to really know the person deep down, and all the women I've gone on dates with have impressed me in this regard, and I've been excited by the prospects of seeing them further. But they don't share the sentiment.

It's hard, you know? I'm trying to be confident and to really approach this positively, but after a while it's hard to keep up the front when there is just so little success achieved.

As for the suggestion about befriending someone and taking things as they come...I have so many mixed feelings and trepidiation about this path. Don't get me wrong, I wish it could work this way. I've tried in the past. But every time, what wound up happening was either I got securely in the friend zone because she didn't perceive me as eager enough...or when I finally made my feelings overt, they were not reciprocal, and it cost me the friendship. They just quit hanging out with me, like I'm poison or something, or like they're afraid that I won't be able to control myself if we're alone or something. Which of course is far from the truth, I'm completely capable of a plataonic relationship, and I hate losing a friend because I dared to make my feelings known, which is what women want, right? Emotional honesty????

So I just simply have ruled out the idea of friendship leading to a relationship. Dating outright is safer. But of course dating is its own problem because I feel I'm at my best when someone gets to know me.

On first appraisal, I know I'm no one's idea of a catch. I don't keep up with the latest fashions, my interests and passions are hardly sexy or masculine, I don't make much money (yet), and I've got a lot of big dreams, but nothing much yet to show for it apart from ambition.

I feel in some ways sorry for the woman who goes on a date with me, because I just feel like, "God, is she going to take one look at me and be disappointed?" But I KNOW, deep down, I have something worth giving to somebody. And I'm not clinging to some unrealistic notion of what I want in a woman. I'm not after model good looks. Just someone who is good at heart, who has her own dreams that she might want to share with me, and vice versa.

I'd love to find someone like that. I'd love to find someone who calls me every once in a while, instead of always me doing the calling. Someone who thinks about me, like I think about them. I'd really love that. As is, I've never really known that feeling, known what it is like to be desired by somebody. How I'd love for someone out there to want me, to think about me, to even find me sexy. That would be marvelous!


You say that.........But then the next 8 paragraphs completely contradict it.

"I'm trying to show them my very best side, to hopefully convince them that I'm worth taking a chance on."
You are trying WAY too hard. You're treating it like a job interview, not a date.



Brianruns10
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28 Oct 2013, 3:12 pm

But what else is a date, than a kind of job interview? Isn't it to establish if the two are compatible? All I'm trying to do is demonstrate why I'm worth taking a chance on. Trying to show that I have ambition and a good future, trying to show I'm empathetic and caring and like to listen.



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28 Oct 2013, 3:23 pm

Brianruns10 wrote:
But what else is a date, than a kind of job interview? Isn't it to establish if the two are compatible? All I'm trying to do is demonstrate why I'm worth taking a chance on. Trying to show that I have ambition and a good future, trying to show I'm empathetic and caring and like to listen.


I address that in this thread I made about my online dating success:
http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt242793.html

I suggest you check it out.



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28 Oct 2013, 6:03 pm

A date might feel like a job interview but the trick is remembering it isn't one and that the person you are dating is with you to see what you are like.
Relationships aren't jobs, dating isn't a job, romance shouldn't be a chore. It's all supposed to be fun, and at the very least enriching.

Having said that, after so many dates (usually 3 is the magic number) you should have decided if you want to be serious or not with someone.
Either you take the plunge or they do. Most of the time women are expecting you to get the ball rolling. If you aren't prepared to do that then you will either have to go on a lot more dates or rethink what you're doing.



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28 Oct 2013, 6:12 pm

I agree on the whole attitude of you are both on a date. Don't act like you are the lucky one don't be afraid to make her put some effort into it. Women are not special and don't hold them on some higher pedestal. Don't be an ass but know you are equal that I think is where confidence comes from.


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Brianruns10
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28 Oct 2013, 8:43 pm

JanuaryMan wrote:
A date might feel like a job interview but the trick is remembering it isn't one and that the person you are dating is with you to see what you are like.
Relationships aren't jobs, dating isn't a job, romance shouldn't be a chore. It's all supposed to be fun, and at the very least enriching.

Having said that, after so many dates (usually 3 is the magic number) you should have decided if you want to be serious or not with someone.
Either you take the plunge or they do. Most of the time women are expecting you to get the ball rolling. If you aren't prepared to do that then you will either have to go on a lot more dates or rethink what you're doing.


Perhaps my original post was unclear, but I had one date each with two different women, and then two dates with a third. I've never had more than two dates with ANY woman, so I've never approached the threshold you describe for "getting serious."



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28 Oct 2013, 9:10 pm

Brian, perhaps you have severe anxious attachment style. And the girls you are dating are not attracted to such a type.

You might want to check this out and see if it helps:

http://blog.workhealthlife.com/2012/10/ ... ent-style/



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28 Oct 2013, 9:36 pm

I think there is quick fix for weakness in social skills and maturity. I agree with the route of first building a group of long term friendship male/female is ok, and share your difficulties and genuinely and proactively ask them for feedback. I bet people who know you, can clearly spot out some of the turnoff signal, that you're not aware of yourself. Instead of accumulating the failures and pain in the dating game, it's best to go back to the fundamentals and build up on the social skills. If you can't find the support group from your previous friendships, the local church fellowship probably is a good place to start. There is no pill that you can take and fix the problem. With patience and determination and proper advice from others, I think you'll get there.

Daniel Wendler has gone through similar experiences of many rejections in childhood and has picked up the social skills and become a confident person. His video is in youtube: My Life with Asperger’s: Daniel Wendler at TEDxUniversityOfArizona

Daniel Wendler has done a lot of research on social skills and body language and himself becomes successful at it.
http://www.improveyoursocialskills.com

To share some of the turn off signal that on dates that I have rejected myself for your reference:

Guy 1: During my unemployment, my date call me at 9 am in the morning. So I got waked up by the call. He emailed me, call me, everyday and expect a response from me. I was very annoyed because he being too pushy. Another incident that I showed me my newly bought iPhone and he asked me to buy him one jokingly. But I was unemployed and we just newly dated for 2 times. This joke is a bit over the board.

Guy 2: On our first date, we're going out as a friend. everything seems going ok. At the end of the date, he ask me if he is ok. I feel something wrong why he need to check if it's going ok. When he ask this question, there seems a lot of pain in his facial expression. It's very obvious to me that the pain comes from many accumulated rejection from dates. I was kind enough to say it's going ok because I don't want to hurt him and ruin the nice day.