Aspie Friend with a Compulsive Liar Boyfriend

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I'm reaching out to you folks on this, because I am unsure of what to do.

Aspie Edie (not her real name) has been dating NT Tom (not his real name) for 3 years. I've know Tom and been friends with him longer than Edie, but I'm beginning to find in the last year that I like her more than I like him.

We all are a part of the same reenacting group, which Tom and I joined at the same time 6 years ago. Tom is a decade younger than I, but we became close and he was like a younger brother to me. He met Edie at a Halloween party and they've been together since. Edie absolutely adores him. She's a very sweet girl, bubbly, a bit naive. She's an honest person, very unaware of herself, and I don't think she's capable of being mean or hating anyone. I haven't been privy to any meltdowns, but I have noticed when things don't go well during a reenacted battle, she gets incredibly anxious and upset. A couple years ago, I witnessed Tom get very gruff and mean with her after one of the battles, in which she ran off crying. He went after her to their tent and they came back a half hour later all smiles and googly eyes. I was disturbed by his behavior toward her, and even further disturbed when I was told he didn't like her talking to any other men at these events, and he would display the same behavior when she did. I eventually put it out of my mind, ascribed it to age and moved on.

To make a long story short, it has recently come to my attention that Tom took a great deal of money from our group under false pretenses. He was called to task, quietly demoted, and will have to pay back the money. They are working to file civil papers so he is forced to pay the money back. Other members in the unit board questioned aloud what else he lied about; does he really have an aristocratic Scottish title that he got from his grandfather? Does he really attend a prestigious Ivy League school? Since Tom is like a little brother to me (I've also become friends with his mother in this time), I decided to check things out on my own.

I found there is no such title in the area of Scotland that he claimed, and he is not registered as a student at the Ivy League school. The latter I had never questioned before, but was surprised when I would mention different things about the town where the school is that he didn't know about (since my husband has attended conferences there and I've been there with him myself). I myself feel pretty stupid and I have passed the information I have found along to a board member. (Part of his conditions in staying in the group were that he tell the truth and he was pointedly asked about the school).

But, my concern is for Edie. She is under his thumb and would believe that the sky were purple if he told her so. She really adores him. I don't want to spoil her vision of him. I could not help but notice that her mother is not facebook friends with him, and I know for a fact her father does not approve (I chalked it up to typical Father behavior, though). Tom has also concealed the money thing from his mother, too. I am concerned for not just Edie's heart, but her safety as well.

Do I out him to her or her mother? Do I encourage that he out himself to her? I have not yet told him that I know about the lies. I know not all people with Asperger's are the same (considered that I am also married to one, who would want to know up front about any falsehoods).

Do I not touch it at all?

I can tell you from personal experience that people with AS are easy targets for con artists and pathological liars like that because they figure out quickly that we aren't particularly savvy at picking up on nonverbal cues and subtle social interactions and that we are generally not very confrontational when we begin to suspect someone is trying to put one over on us.

I can't guess how your friend will react if you tell her everything you know, but if you consider yourself a true friend, you owe it to her to lay the cards on the table and let her at least have the benefit of the truth. I think you should tell her and her family, preferably at the same time and leave nothing out. What she does with that information is of course out of your hands, but even if she never speaks to you again (and I doubt that will happen, at least not permanently), you will have done the right thing and at least made the attempt to protect her.

No one deserves to be used and manipulated like that and you can never be sure that someone who depends so heavily on deception might not be physically dangerous at some point, either because they're so arrogant they think they can never be caught, or because they're threatened by exposure.

This probably explains why my AS husband has been oddly sympathetic to me during this time. He is an honest person and so am I, and since we have the same values and knows Tom has been a very close friend of mine, he understands my feelings (for once!)



Badly. You should see the sappy facebook posts between the two.



This is the hard part. I'm not very close with her, and I think she loves me because Tom loves me (I think); but, at this point, my loyalty lies with her.



This will be harder. I live 4 hours away right now, and I don't know what will happen between now and December 14, which will be the next time I am at an event. And, I can only guess her parents will be there. I can write a letter via facebook to her mother and her if s**t hits the fan before then.




No, no one does deserve this. My heart breaks for her. But there is more to this--the money was significant enough that if it were to go to a NJ court, he could get jail time. The unit board of officers is trying to avoid that, but still get the money. When I posted this, I have only let them know about the deception. I haven't let him know that I know of the deception because I'm afraid he'll split and we won't get any money.

And, there's more than the money. He has a certain sexual proclivity that involves BDSM. Thankfully, I know he likes the receiving end of BDSM, so theoretically she is "in charge" sexually, as part of his fantasies. Which, of course, doesn't mesh at all with anything I've been finding out (I know a bit about that proclivity, and even take part in my own life. Never with Tom, but we've talked about it extensively). The irony about BDSM is that relationships NEED trust more than anything, and clearly Tom is not trustworthy, as a submissive or otherwise.

I might just be watching too much 48 hours or Dateline, but, I genuinely fear what will happen if she or her parents tries to end this. For note, she is 22 and he is 21. She lives with her parents and doesn't drive. She did go to a private college, but got duped out of her degree, in part, because of her AS. A lot of things happened to her at the dorms that she didn't have the savvy to navigate well.

It might actually help Edie to get an understanding in a law enforcement background (ie, take some courses, or have a police officer or someone in that background become a mentor for her). If she can't tell a liar through social cues and body language, she could learn a different way and pay attention to details when she has conversations with people. Aspies typically have a good memory, and my senses go awry when I hear something that doesn't add up (especially if I have seen the person engage in actions that don't match the words.) A liar will make mistakes in saying one thing, and typically acting a different way.

Now, I was the diagnosed Aspie in a Crime Scene Investigation class during a Law and Security Administration class in college. An activity I engaged in during class was to interview three people (other classmates for this assignment) and figure out who the suspect was, who the witness was, and who the innocent bystander was. I was the only one in the class that got all three correct due to my attention to details. But when playing a lawyer in a class, I was terrible at it.

Another recommendation would be a spiritual mentor. Spiritual people are usually better at detecting lies and forgiving people as well.

Aspiemike, I hadn't thought about the memory thing. I remember a lot of what he's told me, it's only now that I questioned it and did my own research to check it because I had evidence of him lying. I wonder if she has caught him in the past with false information. He's very good at explaining things away, in such a way that you feel guilty for wanting to pry--and that's from an NT perspective.

This could be very damaging to her, and I want to soften the blow as much as possible. Because of the criminal/civil stuff, I'm biding my time and waiting for everyone else to be on the same page before proceeding. I have let them know that Edie needs to be told with her parents, and that Tom's mother should probably know as well.

You know what. Your post tells me everyone has a good memory. Its probably more of a priority thing and when we choose to act in a way that would be justified (justice).

Aspiemike--I hope I didn't come across as insulting. My experience is not everyone has a good memory--NT or AS. I can remember situations and conversations and dates and directions well, but my husband can't. He'd get lost in a paper bag. However, he remembers information that he's researched and read and equations he's worked on. So... I guess it varies.

I want to do the right and just thing. Still waiting for my group to give the go ahead to do whatever needs doing.

I have such a hard time pretending that I don't know. I hate lying and concealing information that I feel people should be privy to.

No miscommunication intended.. I wasn't insulted

Memory doesn't necessarily apply to one type of person is what I was interpreting.

Oh good! Sounds like we are on the same page.

Tell her.

UPDATE

I messaged him that if he hadn't come clean to her, he had to do it ASAP. He claimed that she was going through some BS with her dad, and was waiting to tell her.

It got worse.

See, the money was taken to order a new flag for the group. He initially claimed the flag was locked in a safe where the key had broke (Oct 18-19). October 26, he brought a flag to an event that was clearly made by an amateur, who turned out to be Edie. After bringing the fake flag, our group got suspicious and contacted the company with the receipt he gave them and found that no such order had been made, and the receipt was a fake. And, the rest I told you (in less detail)

It gets so much worse.

Another member is attempting to "fix" the homemade flag and asked for the leftover materials and let slip to Edie about the money and why Tom got demoted. She still thought the real flag was trapped in a safe and thought this flag was a "spare."

Worse than that, she is having issues with her dad--she's not in school because he gambled away her tuition money. The two men she trusted most have utterly betrayed her.

She messaged me around 1 am, when i was in bed, but the member who slipped it to her called me to wake me up and tell me. She was very concerned for Edie. I confronted Tom via messenger that he had to come clean with everything, not just the flag (I had been waiting for him to call me to confront him on everything else). He called me at 230 in the morning. He admitted the scottish title was false without me saying it was, but insists he goes to the Ivy League school and that it was the "one thing" successful in his life. I checked with the directory, Registrar, and his individual school at the college, BUT I STILL WANT TO BELIEVE HIM. I must be dumb.

I can't imagine how she feels.

Poor Edie, I've been reaching out to her--she says she had to go to work and she needs him to explain to her in person. I'm going to call her house in a bit and check up on her with her parents. Apparently, she felt like she was being demoted when he was, though it had nothing to do with her. I fear for her, I truly do.

Edie should only have to be dealing with her father. what is going on is bad enough there. Tom is just making it worse. Anything anyone can do to help her with a gameplan?

I would say keep Tom away from the group to see how things go would be the best thing to do. But I don't know that situation as well as you do and don't know what is best for everyone involved.

She is very close with her mother. Plus, two other members (one who is our group commander, and very much respected by her and others) and I have been reaching out to her. The three of us are willing to lend support (it will be easier for the other two since they are nearby); I'm not sure of her relationships to others within the group, but I know she does have other young female friends in the hobby.

Tom is making it worse, but, this was going to come out anyway. It's out, and I don't know what else we can do aside from trying to stabilize her as much as possible. We've all been letting her know that she's been wanted for herself, not because she is Tom's girlfriend.

My biggest fear is she will attempt suicide.




I have a feeling this is what's going to happen anyway. He used to host the Holiday party for our group, but has already been informed someone else is hosting it this year. Looking back, I realize a lot of things he did were to make himself needed and liked. He cultivated her adoration. He used his friends.

More Update

Of course, the situation is evolving; for the positive for Tom.

I had an intense weekend, and wasn't able to get through to Edie until Sunday night. Though, I had already guessed things had been smoothed over by the sappy facebook posts resuming. They apparently had a long talk in which she urged him to not be like her dad, and he was apologetic and contrite, wants to "make it better" and pay back the money. I know how he talks to people and he can make you believe he's sincere, but I find actions speak louder than words, and in the past he's presented he is one thing to smooth over a situation, then just would do whatever he wanted anyway. Edie says she's going with him when he makes payments to make sure he does it (hell, they got his credit by the balls) and keep an eye on him.

From all of what she was saying, I'm guessing he didn't come clean with her about anything other than the money. Two things that disturbed me the most: that she blamed herself for this happening and that she said " I have to be strong for him, myself, and all of us." I told her that this was not her fault at all! As to the second part, it scares me that she put him first and is burdening herself with this. I did tell her to be careful with that heavy burden and I would always be just a phone call away if it got too heavy.

I also let the other people in the group who are close to her in friendship and proximity know what's going on, in case more fallout comes and I can't do anything to help the situation.

Less than one month I'll be in that area again. Perhaps I'll have to tell her the rest when I'm there and face the friend I thought so highly of, that's been lying to me since we met. I swear, if he continues to lie to her and hurt her I'll smack him or something. I'm still really angry that someone could use people he supposedly loves.

I would abandon her. Let her fall.