what is borderline personality disorder

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Schizpergers
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14 Dec 2013, 12:19 pm

billiscool wrote:
can you have bpd first,then later get asperger.
can bpd turn into asperger


No. It cannot. You do not "get" aspergers. You are born with it. It is a mild version of autism. BPD and Aspergers are completely unrelated. Someone with aspergers can get BPD in the same way anyone can but they are not the same thing at all.


Aspie19828 wrote:
Aspergers is closely linked to social anxiety disorder.

This is not true at all. Aspergers is not social anxiety, but someone with aspergers may get social anxiety.
My social problems are not caused by anxiety at all but by trouble understanding and communicating with people. I feel comfortable around people but have trouble relating to them. They are unrelated conditions that can co-exist the same way anything can.



em_tsuj
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14 Dec 2013, 5:50 pm

It has nothing to do with Autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder.

Borderline Personality Disorder has to do with not being able to regulate emotions or form intimate relationships due to extreme levels of child abuse. It oftentimes displays itself in self-destructive, addictive behaviors and extreme instability in life.

I imagine some people who are autistic also have borderline personality disorder due to abuse and neglect. Others don't.

I am pretty sure I have borderline personality disorder in addition to being autistic because of my history of child abuse and my reaction to it.

I can go into a lot more detail about it with you, but I don't want to bore you.



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14 Dec 2013, 5:52 pm

em_tsuj wrote:
It has nothing to do with Autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder.

Borderline Personality Disorder has to do with not being able to regulate emotions or form intimate relationships due to extreme levels of child abuse. It oftentimes displays itself in self-destructive, addictive behaviors and extreme instability in life.

I imagine some people who are autistic also have borderline personality disorder due to abuse and neglect. Other's don't.

I am pretty sure I have borderline personality disorder in addition to being autistic because of my history of child abuse and my reaction to it.


How can you tell which is which?

Can people with aspergers not have issues with processing their emotions?



em_tsuj
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14 Dec 2013, 6:06 pm

Aspie19828 wrote:
Aspergers is closely linked to social anxiety disorder.


Not true. People with AS often have social anxiety, but people with social anxiety disorder have different symptoms. People with social anxiety disorder also have the ability to pick up on social cues just as good as regular people.



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14 Dec 2013, 6:23 pm

em_tsuj wrote:
Autism is a neurological disorder.

Borderline Personality Disorder has to do with not being able to regulate emotions or form intimate relationships due to extreme levels of child abuse. It oftentimes displays itself in self-destructive, addictive behaviors and extreme instability in life.


Paragraph 1 and 2 aren't mutually exclusive, unless you think the brain isn't related to emotions. All mental illness means neurologic disorder.

In order to officially have an ASD, you need to have shown signs of it from a very early age.

I've never thought of bpd and asd as similar. Why are you under the impression that they are similar?


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em_tsuj
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14 Dec 2013, 6:26 pm

bumble wrote:

How can you tell which is which?

Can people with aspergers not have issues with processing their emotions?


Borderline personality disorder is overdiagnosed. People think that anyone who is overly emotional and reactive is borderline. I have only seen two 100% full-fledged borderline people in my professional experience. Both of these people experienced significant childhood abuse.

As adults they were seething with rage all the time. They also suffered from depression and suicidal ideation, engaged in self-harm, even attempted suicide, but not in a lethal way. It was more of a play for attention. They trusted NO ONE or they trusted someone COMPLETELY. A person who is borderline has black and white thinking with people. Either someone is a hero or an enemy. They either love you or hate you. A person who is borderline is always anxious and usually has several addictions that they use to numb the constant emotional pain (food, sex, a love relationship, drugs, alcohol). They cannot have healthy intimate relationships. It is impossible unless they are treated. This is because what they learned by being abused as children: 1) the world is unsafe. 2) people are not to be trusted 3) I have to take care of myself and keep myself separate 4) I am a bad, evil person. The best way to look at BPD is that it is PTSD from growing up in an abusive home. You are always on guard to make sure no one abuses you again. You avoid intimacy because you have learned that you get hurt when people get close. That chronic feeling of being unsafe leads to addiction to kill the pain. People with BPD overreact to outside events. It throws them into a panic. This leads to instability in their lives because they make rash decisions based on their emotions. That is me in a nutshell. That is me on an emotional level.

People with BPD are also extremely manipulative and dishonest. They cannot stand being called out on their dishonesty either.

I have AS, which is a neurological condition that makes it difficult for me to process social stimuli. I cannot do it in real time. I am also obsessive with my special interests. AS has nothing to do with being abused. I don't think it creates this immense fear of intimate relationships either. The thing AS does is create stress when I interact with people because I want to make sure I am doing it right. I also have additional low self-esteem from being rejected so much when I was younger.

I'm a grab bag of diagnoses so studying psychology and working in the mental health field really helped me understand the differences between my different disorders. I see how those disorders play out in different people.



Last edited by em_tsuj on 14 Dec 2013, 6:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cavernio
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14 Dec 2013, 6:32 pm

Schizpergers wrote:
Aspergers is not social anxiety, but someone with aspergers may get social anxiety. My social problems are not caused by anxiety at all but by trouble understanding and communicating with people. I feel comfortable around people but have trouble relating to them. They are unrelated conditions that can co-exist the same way anything can.


Unless you don't care about what other people think of you, or if you cannot feel anxiousness, not being to understand or communicate with people is a recipe for social anxiety. The anxiety would be limited to social situations, such that you would not get that anxiety outside of the social situation or outside of thinking of that social situation. Therefore I'd call it a specific form of social anxiety.

But yes, it is possible to not be overly concerned with social interaction such that an AS who's poor at reading social rules would still not be anxious about social interaction, and it's possible for someone who's fairly good at reading and understanding social behaviour to be anxious of social situations for various reasons, quite often due to poor self-esteem and poor self-image such that there's a worry that people think poorly of them.


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14 Dec 2013, 6:35 pm

bumble wrote:
em_tsuj wrote:
It has nothing to do with Autism.

Autism is a neurological disorder.

Borderline Personality Disorder has to do with not being able to regulate emotions or form intimate relationships due to extreme levels of child abuse. It oftentimes displays itself in self-destructive, addictive behaviors and extreme instability in life.

I imagine some people who are autistic also have borderline personality disorder due to abuse and neglect. Other's don't.

I am pretty sure I have borderline personality disorder in addition to being autistic because of my history of child abuse and my reaction to it.


How can you tell which is which?

No idea. I reckon that aspies are more likely to be susceptible to bpd than real people, and that then the bpd can mask the asd.



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14 Dec 2013, 6:57 pm

billiscool wrote:
so,how come people who diagnosis people,can't tell
the difference between asd,bpd,bipolar.

it's stupid,if you have a career in diagnosis people,shouldn't
you know what each conditions look like.

do these doctors have a dartboard with different disability
names on it.everytime someone new comes in,they throw
the dart,and see where it land.
''oh,look the dart landed on bpd,yep that what he has''


Diagnosis is hard. It is also time-consuming and expensive if you do it right. It is also like an art. Because so many disorders have similar symptoms and because people often present with more than one mental disorder and because people with the same mental disorder can present with different symptoms, diagnosis is kind of like putting a puzzle together or solving a mystery. It takes education about what the different disorders are but it also takes clinical experience. You need to see what each disorder looks like in real life in order to make good diagnoses.

Nevertheless, the way the mental healthcare system is set up, practitioners are pressured to come up with a diagnose, any diagnosis.

I question whether personality disorders are real illnesses or just a short-hand for people who have personalities others find unpleasant.



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14 Dec 2013, 7:55 pm

structrix wrote:
I was diagnosed as having BPD in college way back when. One of the reasons why I am suspecting a misdiagnosis is that I am more mature and grown up now and many of the BPD issues have calmed down a lot. People, particularly women, tend to get misdiagnosed a lot.


but how come people are never misdiagnosed as ASD.
there seem to be a bias towards BPD. it's like it's a shame to have BPD.



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14 Dec 2013, 8:06 pm

em_tsuj wrote:

Diagnosis is hard. It is also time-consuming and expensive if you do it right. It is also like an art. Because so many disorders have similar symptoms and because people often present with more than one mental disorder and because people with the same mental disorder can present with different symptoms, diagnosis is kind of like putting a puzzle together or solving a mystery. It takes education about what the different disorders are but it also takes clinical experience. You need to see what each disorder looks like in real life in order to make good diagnoses.

Nevertheless, the way the mental healthcare system is set up, practitioners are pressured to come up with a diagnose, any diagnosis.

I question whether personality disorders are real illnesses or just a short-hand for people who have personalities others find unpleasant.


but why is it always BPD that is misdiagnosed,how come we never see people say
''I was misdiagnosed as ASD,but I really have BPD''



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14 Dec 2013, 10:20 pm

billiscool wrote:
structrix wrote:
I was diagnosed as having BPD in college way back when. One of the reasons why I am suspecting a misdiagnosis is that I am more mature and grown up now and many of the BPD issues have calmed down a lot. People, particularly women, tend to get misdiagnosed a lot.


but how come people are never misdiagnosed as ASD.
there seem to be a bias towards BPD. it's like it's a shame to have BPD.


There are people that do get misdiagnosed with ASD. Sometimes symptoms overlap and a doctor thinks they're autistic and sometimes a therapist doesn't know much about AS but thinks a person has it and diagnoses them with it. I have read cases about it online from people whom it happened to. Even few here have admitted being diagnosed with it and then saying they don't have it.


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14 Dec 2013, 10:21 pm

em_tsuj wrote:
They also suffered from depression and suicidal ideation, engaged in self-harm, even attempted suicide, but not in a lethal way. It was more of a play for attention.


Much of what you posted seems accurate but this one is not consistent with the extremely high rate of completed suicide attempts among BPD patients. It seems minimizing, if anything, and such a belief seems to discourage giving a suicidal BPD patient what they need to not successfully kill themselves. That is, not taking it as seriously as it should be. Like, I have heard other professionals say they were told not to take this seriously because of this assumption. It seems to be one of the ways professionals fail BPD clients.



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10 Jan 2018, 1:43 pm

with Borderline Personality Disorder sounds like some condition such as PTSD that maifests itself during late adolescence or young adulthood after years of physical and emotional abuse in childhood. The difficulties with socialising with BPD may appear to be like autism but this is in fact a survival technique as the person feels he or she doesn't trust anyone as he or she has been let down or people including the family have been too free and easy with discipline as a child. This means the losing of the ability to maintain friendships or social rejection or dissatisfaction of current friends acquaintances. Autism on the other hand has senosry qualities too such as a later diaper training than for allistic children having to learn to sensory issues and toileting accidents sometimes until about 10 or 11 at the latest. Also the stimming being for sensory regulation. The latter here is about autism and a child who would grow up to have BPD wouldn't be in diapers till about 5 or six. The child is born with autism/Asperger syndrome and also may have had contact with the learning disability (intellectual disability) educational system as a child. A child who grows up to have a bordeline personality disorder may have begun to have thrashings from his dad for minor rule infrongements at home or seen his dad beat his mum so he is black and blue and carries those scars and the effects of these psychological scars are borderline personality disorder, PTSD anxiety disorders. Autism is classified as a developmental disability where as BPD is a personality disorder totally unrelated to autism even though some tinking can overlap somewhere the black and white thinking. :arrow:



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10 Jan 2018, 2:47 pm

My crazy ex is almost certainly someone with BPD. I would say it with about 99.99% certainty as her therapist even used the exact DSM 4 criteria word for word for BPD when describing her behaviors. I now see how I was attracted to someone with BPD as not only did we both have low self-worth but I grew up in a family that clearly has Cluster B (Borderline, Narcissism, Antisocial) disorders.

I can see how it can be mistaken as Autism at first but the more you learn the more they have very little in common. The biggest thing I noticed was her 'splitting' reflex. She could literally go from adoring me to a three hour screaming match just because I was 5 minute late picking her up. She could also start screaming, violently throw things around and 5 minutes later would act like nothing happened. It is said that those with BPD fear abandonment but I find that hard to reconcile with her behavior: it should have been a red flag when she said over and over that she didn't want to "scare me away" on the first two dates.

I suspect it was my own issues with Black & White thinking that caused me to overlook her abusive behavior. In reality, my B&W thinking was nothing like hers that I can only describe as borderline psychotic. I eventually left her and realized there is a reason she blew through boyfriends like tissues and to my knowledge continues to do so. I've heard it said that people with BPD can turn decent, honest men (and women) into monsters abd destroy their sanity and I can believe it. When she got into her child-like rage attacks, she was potentially capable of doing ANYTHING, including murder.

It's really one of those things you can't read out of a textbook and have to experience for yourself. The best website I have ever seen that describes BPD is www.gettinbetter.com I genuinely felt bad watching her self-destructive behavior but I eventually realized it was not my responsibility to rescue someone who didn't want to be saved.