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Mr_Nice
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16 Dec 2013, 6:44 pm

Turquoise773 wrote:
Why do people say that people with Aspergers lack empathy?The people on Wrong Planet have a lot of empathy and seem to identify with others suffering,even with NTs who are difficult to understand.A lot of NTs don't seem to have empathy and don't seem to notice suffering unless it's pointed out to them.Some people don't seem to identify with others suffering.I've noticed this with the way they treat animals.I think this is because animals can't speak up for themselves,so they take advantage of this and are cruel to them.I think this is what happened to me when I was younger.I didn't speak up for myself and I was bullied just for being quiet.Everyone's different but in my experience Aspergers people generally seem to have more empathy than NTs.

The cliché of Aspergoids empathy is a bit of a half truth, that's been poorly ascribed by NT people and then adopted by some Aspergoids themselves.

The truth according to contempory psychiatry is that empathy has 2 components, Affective empathy and cognitive empathy. Aspergoids are often deficient in cognitive empathy with varying degrees. This means we/they can't read peoples intentions or motives like a NT could.
Affective empathy is feeling other peoples misfortune or pain. According to Wikipedia Aspergoids are not deficient in this form of empathy. It's on Wikipedia.
I for one have nore feeling and compassion for people than quite afew of my NT mates.


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Joe90
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17 Dec 2013, 1:05 pm

I still think that all this BS about Aspies lacking this type of empathy and that type of empathy is inaccurate. Empathy can be a lot to do with your personality type. I also believe this empathy talk is very contradicting. There's a thread about empathy and it makes it out to seem that NTs have this ability to understand how it feels to be somebody else. Then you click on to the next thread and it's a discussion about what NTs don't understand about you and how you've been bullied in the past and how you feel nobody cares, etc.

So where's all this ''we lack empathy and they don't'' going to end?


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FishStickNick
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17 Dec 2013, 8:42 pm

AScomposer13413 wrote:
Joe90 wrote:
I don't generally lack empathy. I generally know what people will feel and so can judge what to say and what not to say. I don't like being blunt, and if I do want to be blunt in a situation, I will be aware that this may upset them. We can all be blunt sometimes, but usually I know better not to be if I don't want to upset that person or if the time isn't right.


^ This. I'm pretty much the same way.

I experience this too. Sometimes I try to avoid the person entirely instead of just being honest, though, which probably makes the situation worse.

Reminds me a quote from something I read recently that nicely encapsulates what I experience a lot of the time:
http://www.stimeyland.com/2012/06/aspie ... sis-story/

Quote:
I know how to act. And when I don’t know how to act, I know how to not act so that people don’t know that I don’t know how to act. It’s a fair amount of work and one of the reasons it is hard for me to be one-on-one with people I don’t know well. It is much easier for me to hide in a small group.



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17 Dec 2013, 9:02 pm

Mr_Nice wrote:
The cliché of Aspergoids empathy is a bit of a half truth, that's been poorly ascribed by NT people and then adopted by some Aspergoids themselves.

The truth according to contempory psychiatry is that empathy has 2 components, Affective empathy and cognitive empathy. Aspergoids are often deficient in cognitive empathy with varying degrees. This means we/they can't read peoples intentions or motives like a NT could.
Affective empathy is feeling other peoples misfortune or pain. According to Wikipedia Aspergoids are not deficient in this form of empathy. It's on Wikipedia.

So I guess based on that, cognitive empathy would be things like understanding whether someone's being sarcastic, whether a question was rhetorical or earnest, the intent of a remark, why that person smiled at you, etc. Is that about right?

What's interesting is that Alex Plank uses a completely different definition for affective and cognitive empathy in an interview he did back in August:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv- ... 2rv2a.html

Quote:
"There are two types of empathy: cognitive and effective. Cognitive empathy is the kind of empathy you, me, everyone hopefully has. Effective empathy is the ability to show that empathy. I lack that ability."



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18 Dec 2013, 3:20 am

I actually think Aspies are more empathetic than NTs. As a kid I cried about everything, but now I've kind of grown numb. But still, I have always thought compassion for strangers, animals, and even criminals was a given. I didn't realize so many people (NTs especially) are so callous towards people who aren't related to them.



Skaiser
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18 Dec 2013, 3:29 am

Anyone who tells you autism and aspergers people lack empathy know about as much about the condition as people whose only understanding of it is the film rainman, so basically little to nothing. If there was one thing I could change in my life it would be my empathy. Putting others feelings first wether they deserve that consideration or not has ruined and paralysed my life on SO MANY occasions I'd rather forget then ever try to remember them again.



Mr_Nice
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19 Dec 2013, 2:27 pm

FishStickNick wrote:
Mr_Nice wrote:
The cliché of Aspergoids empathy is a bit of a half truth, that's been poorly ascribed by NT people and then adopted by some Aspergoids themselves.

The truth according to contempory psychiatry is that empathy has 2 components, Affective empathy and cognitive empathy. Aspergoids are often deficient in cognitive empathy with varying degrees. This means we/they can't read peoples intentions or motives like a NT could.
Affective empathy is feeling other peoples misfortune or pain. According to Wikipedia Aspergoids are not deficient in this form of empathy. It's on Wikipedia.

So I guess based on that, cognitive empathy would be things like understanding whether someone's being sarcastic, whether a question was rhetorical or earnest, the intent of a remark, why that person smiled at you, etc. Is that about right?

What's interesting is that Alex Plank uses a completely different definition for affective and cognitive empathy in an interview he did back in August:

http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv- ... 2rv2a.html

Quote:
"There are two types of empathy: cognitive and effective. Cognitive empathy is the kind of empathy you, me, everyone hopefully has. Effective empathy is the ability to show that empathy. I lack that ability."


I don't think he has contradicted me :P Well maybe he has, but I haven't contradicted Wiki.:P

Affective and cognitive empathy[edit]

Empathy can be divided into two major components:[14]
Affective empathy, also called emotional empathy:[15] the capacity to respond with an appropriate emotion to another's mental states.[14] Our ability to empathize emotionally is supposed to be based on emotional contagion:[15] being affected by another's emotional or arousal state.[16]
Cognitive empathy: the capacity to understand another's perspective or mental state.[14][17] The terms cognitive empathy and theory of mind are often used synonymously, but due to a lack of studies comparing theory of mind with types of empathy, it is unclear whether these are equivalent.[18]

Although science has not yet agreed upon a precise definition of these constructs, there is consensus about this distinction.[19] There is a difference in disturbance between affective and cognitive empathy in different psychiatric disorders. Psychopathy, schizophrenia, depersonalization, and narcissism are characterized by impairments in affective empathy but not in cognitive empathy, whereas bipolar disorder, borderline traits, and, by some accounts,[20][21] autism are associated with deficits in cognitive empathy but not in affective empathy.[19] Even in people without mental disorders, the balance between affective and cognitive empathy varies.[19] A meta-analysis of recent fMRI studies of empathy confirmed that different brain areas are activated during affective–perceptual empathy and cognitive–evaluative empathy.[22] Also a study with patients with different types of brain damage confirmed the distinction between emotional and cognitive empathy.[15] Specifically, the inferior frontal gyrus appears to be responsible for emotional empathy, and the ventromedial prefrontal gyrus seems to mediate cognitive empathy.[15]

Affective empathy can be subdivided into the following scales:[14][23]
Empathic concern: sympathy and compassion for others in response to their suffering.[14][20][24]
Personal distress: self-centered feelings of discomfort and anxiety in response to another's suffering.[14][20][24]


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