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DSM 5 and the elimination of AS , and serverity levels ...

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yournamehere
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16 Jan 2014, 4:53 pm

I have been reading about this stuff, and it is giving me some anxieties. something is not right about this. there is a problem with the world, and the way people think. we are not supposed to question it. it may be why this dsm-5 is written this way. there is a fool the fool mentality with this I think. it doesn't have to make sence, it just has to work (good luck). to be perfectly honest, I really don't want to tell the outside world that I took a test, and it shows I have a disability anyways. actually, with the exception of quite a few major bumps, and hurdles I had to overcome when I was younger, and the meltdown I had from my last job, and especially the job before that wich made me seek this place out, and the support i did not get from all the "normal" friends and family, because they do not understand. i have been doing pritty well. i just wish people could understand me, maybe not be soo social, stop telling me i need to smile more, stop making fun of the way i am, and call it constructive criticism. basically just shutup, let me do a job and say "it's o.k., it's just him... and hey, mr. sociopathic, narcissistic, mentally abusive, toxic, overlysocial, pranking trickster, gamer, lying guy!! ! leave him alone!! ! that means you too mr. manager, boss, owner guy!! !" once again, im sorry for being me. and thank you for your support. im going to do what I do best now... fix a car or two.



yournamehere
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16 Jan 2014, 4:53 pm

I have been reading about this stuff, and it is giving me some anxieties. something is not right about this. there is a problem with the world, and the way people think. we are not supposed to question it. it may be why this dsm-5 is written this way. there is a fool the fool mentality with this I think. it doesn't have to make sence, it just has to work (good luck). to be perfectly honest, I really don't want to tell the outside world that I took a test, and it shows I have a disability anyways. actually, with the exception of quite a few major bumps, and hurdles I had to overcome when I was younger, and the meltdown I had from my last job, and especially the job before that wich made me seek this place out, and the support i did not get from all the "normal" friends and family, because they do not understand. i have been doing pritty well. i just wish people could understand me, maybe not be soo social, stop telling me i need to smile more, stop making fun of the way i am, and call it constructive criticism. basically just shutup, let me do a job and say "it's o.k., it's just him... and hey, mr. sociopathic, narcissistic, mentally abusive, toxic, overlysocial, pranking trickster, gamer, lying guy!! ! leave him alone!! ! that means you too mr. manager, boss, owner guy!! !" once again, im sorry for being me. and thank you for your support. im going to do what I do best now... fix a car or two.



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17 Jan 2014, 12:22 am

Ravenclawgurl wrote:
AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
My biggest objection to DSM is that it gives short shift to sensory issues. And short shift to stimming, or views it as entirely negative.


exactly accrding to those severity level i would vary at differnt times deppending on how im doing sensory wise that day i also think 3 are to little numbers eat if someome is between 1 and 2 or between 2 or 3 will they lable it 2.5? and in the socializing part it can also depend on who im socializing with.

And also what if I just tend to be better, happier more functional in some areas than in others?

And someone told me that social work takes a more strength based approach. And I like the idea of playing to strength, being matter of fact about any deficiencies, and some help along the way.



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17 Jan 2014, 1:21 am

Kurgan wrote:
AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
My biggest objection to DSM is that it gives short shift to sensory issues.  And short shift to stimming, or views it as entirely negative.


Someone with mild autism (or something that isn't autism at all, such as ADD or Tourette's) can stim a lot, and someone who's completely mute and unable to focus on anything beyond his special interests may not stim at all. Sensory issues can manifest iteself in many ways, so it's difficult to tell just how severe these issues are. It's a myth that stimming means a lot of complex whole body movements or anything like that; usually, it's limited to excessive leg bouncing, pacing, rocking and so on.

Stimming is sometimes a distraction.  But other times stimming helps to maintain concentration or deal with sensory issues.  Or adds to joy of life and that's important, too.

I will try to be open to the idea that the amount or type of autism is not all that directly related to the amount or type of stimming.



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17 Jan 2014, 4:21 am

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
Wow, so if someone uses sign language, or who is better at typing on a laptop, this is not considered an equally valid form of communication ? ? ?


They generally mean people who can't communicate at all.

Those who don't, generally can't sign or communicate in other ways either.

O, and they actually included sensory symptoms in this one for everyone. They didn't have them as a criterion before (just a passing note under those with Kanner's).


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17 Jan 2014, 11:17 am

AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
Kurgan wrote:
AardvarkGoodSwimmer wrote:
My biggest objection to DSM is that it gives short shift to sensory issues.  And short shift to stimming, or views it as entirely negative.


Someone with mild autism (or something that isn't autism at all, such as ADD or Tourette's) can stim a lot, and someone who's completely mute and unable to focus on anything beyond his special interests may not stim at all. Sensory issues can manifest iteself in many ways, so it's difficult to tell just how severe these issues are. It's a myth that stimming means a lot of complex whole body movements or anything like that; usually, it's limited to excessive leg bouncing, pacing, rocking and so on.

Stimming is sometimes a distraction.  But other times stimming helps to maintain concentration or deal with sensory issues.  Or adds to joy of life and that's important, too.

I will try to be open to the idea that the amount or type of autism is not all that directly related to the amount or type of stimming.


Pacing actually helps me when I'm trying to overcome a complex problem in terms of mathematics or programming.



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17 Jan 2014, 12:47 pm

I am a bit confused about what “requiring support” really means?
- That you can function only if someone if taking care of you (a parent, a spouse, etc.)?
- That you can function, but only if you are under the care of a Psychiatrist (and under some form of drug regiment) or a Psychologist (and under constant therapy)?
- ...

I am married and have children. I have been steadily employed for a reasonable period of time (last 6 months). I am not not currently under the care of a Psychiatrist and/or Psychologist and/or Therapist. At this moment in time, I have figured out how to cope/compensate/survive. As such, technically, no “support” is needed.

But then, if the world blows up (divorce, job loss, my depression increases, my anxiety increases), and things fall apart and suddenly, I need the help of a Psychiatrist and/or Psychologist and/or Therapist, then “support” is needed.

It's almost as if you can "go in and out" of the diagnosis, based upon your ability to cope at a particular moment in time.

This seems so, uh, wrong. Am I missing something?



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17 Jan 2014, 1:27 pm

Rocket123 wrote:
It's almost as if you can "go in and out" of the diagnosis, based upon your ability to cope at a particular moment in time.

This seems so, uh, wrong. Am I missing something?


It seems strange to me too. Even the wording of the DSM-V bases the diagnosis on "current functioning":

Quote:
D. Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning.


I suppose there's a difference between "being on the Autistic Spectrum" vs. "having Autistic Spectrum Disorder". You're autistic no matter what - since it's your basic brain wiring - but it only becomes a disorder if you're having trouble functioning. (That's the only sense I can make of it anyway?!)



Chazzer
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17 Jan 2014, 4:14 pm

Does the dsm v change affect those outside the USA?



Chazzer
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17 Jan 2014, 4:15 pm

Does the dsm v change affect those outside the USA?



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17 Jan 2014, 6:47 pm

yournamehere wrote:
. . i just wish people could understand me, maybe not be soo social, stop telling me i need to smile more, stop making fun of the way i am, and call it constructive criticism. . .

I agree. I do not want to be a clone of a 'normal' person or anyone else.

And as you point out, people often do a very poor job of giving advice. They give advice and if I don't view it as some kind of manna from heaven, they get all huffy and offended. I've also had the experience of someone trying to help me one time, and then bailing on me.

I want to tell them, look, don't overdo it and then bail. Don't overinvest and get all huffy. Just be there. Just try and be there for me.

It seems like neurotypicals have some real problems with their social skills, too! :P

I tell myself, engagement, not conformity. And that one I've had to figure out largely on my own.



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17 Jan 2014, 7:39 pm

Chazzer wrote:
Does the dsm v change affect those outside the USA?

Are the ICD-10 Codes the main international reference?



yournamehere
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17 Jan 2014, 9:39 pm

here is the deal that fascinates me. in order for someone to find out what is going on with an individual, they need to go through testing, and yadda yadda. it costs alot of money in the USA (NO SUPPORT). supposedly after they come to the conclusion that something is, or is not going on with that individual, they may, or may not decide weather or not support is needed, wich may, or may not be a correct assessment, and, or, evaluation. now this is where the fun begins. supposedly most of the problems come from "social" issues. say you have me for instance. definately have social issues with the social norm. say I go seek out these tests, and they find issues, which I know they will if I waste my money. i tell them I need help, because I had a meltdown at work and lost my job, wich I did. I tell them I cannot keep a job for more than 3 years (my personal record), because I do not know how to deal with these people. I become a target for abuse, people get hostile towards me, lie, bully me, I get alot of anxiety, cannot understand why people gang up on me, and turn me into a scapegoat. i have talked to human resources before, and lost my job. one time I had a boss try to beat me up, and than fire me. he lost his job, they suspended me for 3 days, and I had to pay for my medical bills for a sprained finger from dodging punches. they did everything they could to make my life difficult, and get me out after that. now I cannot handle the work environment anymore, because people scare the heck out of me, and I am afraid of going back into the work environment because of my social issues I have (personally i don't think it is me). they have obviously been fully recorded in the DSM-5, and it is me because they say so. I have had approximately 12 jobs in 15 years. some let me go, and some i felt i needed to quit from " a lack of support", and i need "support". so these super genius dsm-5 guys, and girls ask me "what is it that you do". well. I am an advanced level automotive technician, a master engine machinist, an undercar specialist, I am bosch certified in automotive electrical repair, and diagnostics. I am sure I can fix anything with an engine in or on anything. that's what I do, that's what I have done. EVERY TIME!! ! I get temper tantrums. I swear alot. I cannot help it. I do not throw anything, and I do not ruin anything. I just get mad at cars, and call them dirty names and stuff, sometimes I yell at the cars. when they are fixed, I get all happy, sometimes put my hands up in the air, and scream "I WIN!! !". I have broken records in dollar amounts while working with people in two different companies, two years in a row back to back (one was a state record). one of the jobs I had I was #6 in having the lowest comback rate in the nation (under 3%) in a fortune 100 company. the others that placed higher than me made less profit, and did less work (the average being 12-15%). I have aspergers syndrome (like Henry Ford). which is no longer on the dsm-5. I need support. help me. will I get any??? I get the feeling I will be wasting my money, and get laughed at. I have never had support from a shrink anyways. even when I probably desperately needed it. my life has been a living hell. some of these people want me back. I can't do it. I think about what they put me through, wonder why the dsm-5 says i have a problem that is not socially accepted, especially when people realize what they lost, and also wonder why the things I have been through are not made illegal, and in some cases just easier to see that it is. ESPECIALLY WHEN HUMAN RESOURCES IS INVOLVED, STICKS UP FOR THE COMPANY, AND DOESNT DO ANYTHING.! !! my behavior may not be socially acceptable, however it is not illegal either, and I am not a felon. so what are we talking about here. that's the million dollar question. personally, I still think neurotypical people lack social diversity, which is unquestionably the most important social skill in the universe. if this is true, it would make the dsm-5, and all the ones before it very wrong.



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17 Jan 2014, 10:46 pm

yournamehere wrote:
personally, I still think neurotypical people lack social diversity, which is unquestionably the most important social skill in the universe.


Exactly. I agree.


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18 Jan 2014, 12:14 am

yournamehere wrote:
here is the deal that fascinates me. in order for someone to find out what is going on with an individual, they need to go through testing, and yadda yadda. it costs alot of money in the USA (NO SUPPORT). supposedly after they come to the conclusion that something is, or is not going on with that individual, they may, or may not decide weather or not support is needed, wich may, or may not be a correct assessment, and, or, evaluation. now this is where the fun begins. supposedly most of the problems come from "social" issues. say you have me for instance. definately have social issues with the social norm. say I go seek out these tests, and they find issues, which I know they will if I waste my money. i tell them I need help, because I had a meltdown at work and lost my job, wich I did. I tell them I cannot keep a job for more than 3 years (my personal record), because I do not know how to deal with these people. I become a target for abuse, people get hostile towards me, lie, bully me, I get alot of anxiety, cannot understand why people gang up on me, and turn me into a scapegoat. i have talked to human resources before, and lost my job. one time I had a boss try to beat me up, and than fire me. he lost his job, they suspended me for 3 days, and I had to pay for my medical bills for a sprained finger from dodging punches. they did everything they could to make my life difficult, and get me out after that. now I cannot handle the work environment anymore, because people scare the heck out of me, and I am afraid of going back into the work environment because of my social issues I have (personally i don't think it is me). they have obviously been fully recorded in the DSM-5, and it is me because they say so. I have had approximately 12 jobs in 15 years. some let me go, and some i felt i needed to quit from " a lack of support", and i need "support". so these super genius dsm-5 guys, and girls ask me "what is it that you do". well. I am an advanced level automotive technician, a master engine machinist, an undercar specialist, I am bosch certified in automotive electrical repair, and diagnostics. I am sure I can fix anything with an engine in or on anything. that's what I do, that's what I have done. EVERY TIME!! ! I get temper tantrums. I swear alot. I cannot help it. I do not throw anything, and I do not ruin anything. I just get mad at cars, and call them dirty names and stuff, sometimes I yell at the cars. when they are fixed, I get all happy, sometimes put my hands up in the air, and scream "I WIN!! !". I have broken records in dollar amounts while working with people in two different companies, two years in a row back to back (one was a state record). one of the jobs I had I was #6 in having the lowest comback rate in the nation (under 3%) in a fortune 100 company. the others that placed higher than me made less profit, and did less work (the average being 12-15%). I have aspergers syndrome (like Henry Ford). which is no longer on the dsm-5. I need support. help me. will I get any??? I get the feeling I will be wasting my money, and get laughed at. I have never had support from a shrink anyways. even when I probably desperately needed it. my life has been a living hell. some of these people want me back. I can't do it. I think about what they put me through, wonder why the dsm-5 says i have a problem that is not socially accepted, especially when people realize what they lost, and also wonder why the things I have been through are not made illegal, and in some cases just easier to see that it is. ESPECIALLY WHEN HUMAN RESOURCES IS INVOLVED, STICKS UP FOR THE COMPANY, AND DOESNT DO ANYTHING.! !! my behavior may not be socially acceptable, however it is not illegal either, and I am not a felon. so what are we talking about here. that's the million dollar question. personally, I still think neurotypical people lack social diversity, which is unquestionably the most important social skill in the universe. if this is true, it would make the dsm-5, and all the ones before it very wrong.


I'm sure you have interesting ideas, but pushing them out in a huge, undifferentiated chunk like this makes them pretty inaccessible.

Try using paragraphs and blank lines to structure you ideas. You could also sprinkle in bold or italic text for emphasis.

Right now your post comes across as an impenetrable blob. "Don't read me!" it cries from behind a wall of violated typographic convention.