Asperger's or Avoidant Personality Disorder

Page 1 of 1 [ 11 posts ] 

MJJost
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Location: Geneseo/Fairport, New York

01 Apr 2014, 9:13 pm

So I really thought I had Aspergers (though I got a little compulsive about the idea... so maybe I wasn't being fair), but after a visit with my college counselor, she says Asperger's is unlikely as I don't fit the social criteria for it. I have the other traits [though at a mild level], like compulsive/obsessive habits and a few sensory things (like not liking hugs, touching = slightly irritating, etc). The psychologist hasn't accounted for these traits if I don't have AS.
Anyway, any of you on the lower bound of social inability and have Asperger's? I understand social cues and facial expressions just fine, but I don't like to talk to people I don't know, and if pressed to chit-chat I would inevitably fail. I can manage eye contact [now] but it lowers my ability to think in social situations. I had my own social personality as a kid but can faintly recall in high school, a few times, observing people and thinking I would want to be like them [i.e. how they act so naturally, almost to the point of mimicry, but mostly just quiet observation. However, none of it is 'disabling'.
Anyone else have this problem between 2 diagnoses? And what is the lower limit on social functioning for Asperger's? I realize that is one of the main criteria, and many Aspies have huge troubles with it, and mine are small in comparison, but... I feel like the other traits 'lock me in' to AS, as avoid ant personality disorder doesn't account for habits, slight sensory things (mostly touch/smell)


_________________
> Self-diagnosed Aspie (soon to see a psychiatrist, hopefully!)
Aspie Quiz: 132/79
AQ Test: 34
EQ Test: 59
Alexithymia: 134


ezbzbfcg2
Veteran
Veteran

User avatar

Joined: 15 Feb 2013
Age: 41
Gender: Male
Posts: 1,936
Location: New Jersey, USA

01 Apr 2014, 9:42 pm

I don't think Asperger's and Avoidant Personality Disorder are mutually exclusive by any means. In fact, Asperger's could very easily lead to AvPD after years of social problems.

I've always found it interesting when people talk about being on the "mild" side as Asperger's, as Asperger's itself is already the mild end of Autism. So if you're the mildest of the mild, then why would you think you have Asperger's at all?

That said, I think a lot of people are afraid to take the step and admit they may have Asperger's in the first place, quickly pointing to all the things they can do that they assume Aspies can't.

You haven't given much to determine if you have Asperger's or not, so I can't say one way or the other.

One other thing. Often, when people say ,"You can't have Asperger's," what they're really saying is, "You can't have classic Autism, you don't act like Rain Man." Many don't actually know what Asperger's is in the first place, and think of it as on par with classic Autism.



MJJost
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Location: Geneseo/Fairport, New York

01 Apr 2014, 10:10 pm

when I say mild I mean I don't have "noticeable" and disabling symptoms at intensities that inhibit me, like meltdowns at certain sounds... I do think I have it, and its significant, but I just qualify it with "mild" to try to be as accurate as possible.


_________________
> Self-diagnosed Aspie (soon to see a psychiatrist, hopefully!)
Aspie Quiz: 132/79
AQ Test: 34
EQ Test: 59
Alexithymia: 134


NicholasName
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 205

01 Apr 2014, 11:18 pm

My social symptoms are barely even noticeable to others most of the time. I can read people pretty well--- too well for their comfort sometimes, if they're trying to fool me (or fooling themselves and I see through it)--- but it's not instinctive. I'm constantly analyzing everything and trying to choose a good response, which I'm never sure really is a good one until they don't yell at me, and even then, I pick things apart afterwards trying to see if there was anything I missed that is clearer in hindsight. It's absolutely exhausting. Actresses get paid and can quit at any time. I'm stuck with it for life, although I now know that speech therapy could help immensely if I find someone knowledgeable enough.

It's not noticeable because they usually only see the confident girl who believes misunderstandings should be resolved by calm, honest, and rational discussion and thinks, "Hey, nobody's perfect; why should I blame myself for not being a mind-reader or for not knowing how to carry on a conversation that I never wanted in the first place?" They either excuse it because my confidence overshadows it, or they just write me off as a bad person. Very few ever see the exhausted wreck who has to sleep for 12 hours after doing anything that requires a lot of socializing or the hysterical basket-case banging her head against hard objects and shrieking. They're all me, though.

It is disabling, but if you'd asked me before I'd heard of Asperger's, I'd have said it wasn't, because I didn't realize it was all caused by the same thing. I didn't think of it as problems with socializing. I thought I had a problem with keeping up my end of a conversation caused by lack of experience and/or just not wanting to talk, a problem with timing caused by impatience, a problem with interpreting sarcasm caused by who-knows-what, a problem with eye contact because what's the point of eye contact anyway, etc. I didn't realize that those were all aspects of socializing, because the word "socializing" to me is so loaded with conformist BS that I just didn't even want to think about it. It's also less disabling to me than it would be for a more social and self-conscious Aspie, because I have almost no interest in socializing and don't care what narrow-minded sheeple think of me. I do wish I were better at socializing with people who aren't narrow-minded sheeple, but those tend not to care if I'm a little more challenging to interact with than some.

Not being able to think and make eye contact at the same time, mimicking, obsessing, and sensory issues definitely sound like Asperger's. Getting compulsive about the possibility also sounds like it. :wink: If you think AvPD sounds equally accurate, then maybe you have both, but that honestly strikes me as the counselor going by stereotypes rather than fact.


_________________
I'm female; my username is a pun on "nickname."


MJJost
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Location: Geneseo/Fairport, New York

01 Apr 2014, 11:31 pm

Thank you! I've found it really hard to try to distinguish between whether or not I am intuitive in social cues/etc. or I intellectualize it. I am tired and need to recharge after socializing, and as for what I do in social situations... that I definitely overthink, consciously throw on facial expressions (even if it feels natural because its so practiced, but still, I am quite conscious of it, which I don't think most are... its hard to tell if its an "act" because I've always done it, and it would be hard to "undo" I think.. but...)...
Anyway, I think part of my problem is I think too logically and about what a person says logically, and avoid contributing my own emotions in conversation. I analyze what is said as if distinct from that person, i.e. no emotions tied to it. Like today my friend who recently broke up with his girlfriend, I had noticed him talking to her on Facebook, and I asked him about it. He didn't want to talk about it, but I really wanted to know, so I 'ignored' his emotional needs because 1. I don't have much affective empathy/emotions at all, and 2. curiosity overdrove the 'knowledge' that I should shut up about it.
But in the end, I still don't know, simply, if I'm social intuitive, or simply really knowledgeable of social interaction and simply can't tell what I'm doing. I'm 21 now, and nothing "serious enough" was noticed when I was a child to alert my parents to autism-spectrum, though I doubt they have any idea what it is


_________________
> Self-diagnosed Aspie (soon to see a psychiatrist, hopefully!)
Aspie Quiz: 132/79
AQ Test: 34
EQ Test: 59
Alexithymia: 134


NicholasName
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 205

02 Apr 2014, 8:35 am

You're welcome! Yeah, that doesn't sound anything like AvPD, but it does sound a lot like Asperger's. My guess would be that if you have to analyze it that much and still can't figure out if it's intuitive, it probably isn't!

Age at diagnosis means nothing about whether you have it or not. I wasn't diagnosed until my mid-twenties, and if I hadn't self-diagnosed first, I'd probably still be tearing my hair out thinking that I'm just an introvert with sensory processing disorder and wondering why I can't get my act together. They say that little girls are less likely to be diagnosed because they don't usually present as "little professors" and have disruptive meltdowns in class, but that wasn't true for me at all. I just ended up living in a really intolerant and ignorant area that preferred to label me a noisy behavior problem than consider that it might be something neurological. Heck, I still get that even after professional diagnosis! There's a lot of ignorance out there, and fighting through it can feel like having to clear out dense underbrush for farmland with nothing but a rusty machete and time.

Good luck. You know yourself better than anyone else, and if you really believe that Asperger's fits you and explains your struggles better than anything else, don't stop fighting until you get what you need, even if it means disagreeing with a bunch of so-called professionals.


_________________
I'm female; my username is a pun on "nickname."


alwaysnow
Blue Jay
Blue Jay

User avatar

Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Age: 34
Gender: Male
Posts: 90

02 Apr 2014, 12:18 pm

From your signature you score very high in EQ though, which doesn't add up with asperger.

MJJost wrote:
Like today my friend who recently broke up with his girlfriend, I had noticed him talking to her on Facebook, and I asked him about it. He didn't want to talk about it, but I really wanted to know


Things like "really wanting to know" about someones social life, and being socially active and interested in others as you describe even to the point of pressing the other person to tell you about it are very foreign notions for me at least. Is it possible you're simply a bit socially awkward or anxious, or as you also noted have something ocd-related which could very well influence other behavioural issues as well.



MJJost
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Location: Geneseo/Fairport, New York

02 Apr 2014, 12:49 pm

I wouldn't say I normally want to know about people's social lives. My two roommates (and my only "real" friends) obviously talk about theirs a bit, but I wouldn't say I emotionally connect to those discussions (especially on my end) any more than discussing (or on my part, listening, and socializing mostly with asking questions) some bit of science news or jokes... or virtually anything else. I simply let them lead the conversation, and don't prefer any topic over another unless its an interest of mine, or I don't want to talk at all.
I would say in that specific situation it wasn't so much an interest with social gossip as it was just a slightly obsessive idea that I wanted to investigate to the end. Neither answer would have been the preferred one– I really wouldn't have cared or felt sad if he was getting back together or not.


_________________
> Self-diagnosed Aspie (soon to see a psychiatrist, hopefully!)
Aspie Quiz: 132/79
AQ Test: 34
EQ Test: 59
Alexithymia: 134


MJJost
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Location: Geneseo/Fairport, New York

02 Apr 2014, 12:52 pm

My main problem is that I've overthought this to death and can't think of a good way to tell if I [now] simply have a wealth of knowledge about socializing that I can intellectually tap into quickly, or if its instinctual. Another problem is that I avoid any type of social scenario I don't prefer, so I haven't been in an unpreferred scenario (like talking to a stranger at some formal event or something) in a very long time... so Im very used to any social scenarios I'm in...


_________________
> Self-diagnosed Aspie (soon to see a psychiatrist, hopefully!)
Aspie Quiz: 132/79
AQ Test: 34
EQ Test: 59
Alexithymia: 134


NicholasName
Sea Gull
Sea Gull

User avatar

Joined: 15 Sep 2013
Age: 35
Gender: Female
Posts: 205

02 Apr 2014, 2:05 pm

MJJost wrote:
Another problem is that I avoid any type of social scenario I don't prefer, so I haven't been in an unpreferred scenario (like talking to a stranger at some formal event or something) in a very long time... so Im very used to any social scenarios I'm in...


Why do you avoid them? If it's not because of feelings of inadequacy and/or fear of criticism/disapproval/rejection, then by definition it isn't AvPD.


_________________
I'm female; my username is a pun on "nickname."


MJJost
Tufted Titmouse
Tufted Titmouse

User avatar

Joined: 13 Mar 2014
Age: 31
Gender: Male
Posts: 26
Location: Geneseo/Fairport, New York

02 Apr 2014, 10:59 pm

Again... its been so long since I've been in an unpreferred social situation... and most of my friends are ones that accepted me quite easily... all my girlfriends have liked me first, and the fact that they liked me always seemed to be a major factor in me liking them back. But I guess I would say if I, like... had to go out and make a friend as an experiment... the most crippling thing I guess would be my lack of ability to make, or desire, chit-chat... I am highly sensitive, but I only need a few friends to just "hang out" with, not really connect with on any deep level... my social needs are met by just being in the same room as them, anything else is extra...
*so I guess feelings of inadequacy, if that means poor socializing skills (at least with strangers, it takes a while to warm up), would be present..


_________________
> Self-diagnosed Aspie (soon to see a psychiatrist, hopefully!)
Aspie Quiz: 132/79
AQ Test: 34
EQ Test: 59
Alexithymia: 134