Loneliness and ASD

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LOL I'd be willing. I am not sure I have Aspergers though. I don't think its impossible to have social anxiety without having self esteem problems. Not everything in life comes back to ego as the psyche profession seems to think. Just becuase I am ok with myself that does not mean I don't experience pain when people bully me or make accusations about me that aren't true or when no one will help me for whatever reason (usually has to do with ego obsession in this society) or when I am ostracised when I did not do anything all that wrong (my attitude towards humanity is understandable given the way it treats me). Just becuase I did not let the bullies take away my belief in myself (which is what bullies seem to want to do, so why give them what they want?) that does not mean that what they are doing does not hurt (they get their result in that sense).

Its like the therapist constantly saying, in an accussational type of way "yes but you blame them..."

Yes I do blame bullies for their actions. She would be correct. That does not mean I always think that everyone else is to blame all the time. For example if someone has more ability than me and I experience feelings of self doubt and insecurity as a result (which happens sometimes, especially as my grades were accidents and were not something I spent hours stressing over trying to get on purpose, although I did try to put a lot of love in my work because I was passionate about it) for a moment or two, that is not their fault or their doing, that is my responsibility and I can't expect them to hold themselves back just to pander to my moment of insecurity, it is not fair on them.

I called the therapists office yesterday and they once again said she would ring me back. She has not. I am going ahead with making complaints against the service now as I am in need of support and just because I don't sit around all day with my head rammed up the arse of my own egos rectum pondering my own self worth incessantly and relating everything everyone does back to the state of my own self (and they say autistic people are self absorbed.....seriously some of the autistic people on this site I have spoken to have been the sweetest of people and, whilst they might live in a world of their own sometimes, they are somewhat less self obsessed than most NT people I have encountered) that does not mean I don't feel pain. That I don't need help or support in certain ways.

It has been nearly two weeks and nothing. If I don't hear back on Monday I start writing letters to every individual or organisation I can complain to about the service and lack of help I am receiving.

People might not like my attitude towards humanity but there is a reason for it. I started out wanting to help them. When I was tested in the 80s for emotional issues, yes I was at a stage of development that was beyond my years in many ways (my moral development for example) but I was also noted as being emotionally immature, oversensitive and *Too Idealistic*.

I never started out hating the human race. It abused me and abused me and abused me and abused me and blamed me for their abuse and carried on abusing me whilst trying to blame ME for their hideous behaviour and belief systems (I mean really believing any life to be worthless...I guess I am the only one who sees what an awful way to view life is. If they think that way about themselves they think that way about others or can do. What a horrible thing to see when I see someone saying things like 'oh homeless people are worthless and should be killed off because they are a waste of oxygen". This is where this ego obsession is taking us only in the future replace the word homeless with autistic because autistic people will be on their hate campaign list next. I might disagree with the human race but I rarely, if ever, wish any harm on it and if I ever did it would because I was flustered, scared and upset and not because I meant it). I started out wanting to help them because I was hurt by the sight of someone suffering. They felt pain I felt pain. I have learned that my help is not wanted by them and that is fine, I won't try to help people anymore but I am not going to put up with their abuse either. And I am certainly not taking the blame for their behaviour.

Just as people say I am responsible for my behaviour and actions...accordingly they are responsible for theirs.

My pain is just as real as someone who has self esteem issues, only instead of my pain being about the status of my own ego and spending my time being obsessed with that (which there is plenty of help out there for anyway) my pain is stems from years of bad treatment and abuse and the memory of that every day in my head. And then when I reach for help...they ego obsessed get support so the therapist can wank their ego off but they don't have any support for me at all? I can't have social anxiety because I have an intact self esteem? Who made that rule up? I can't be nervous around people until I get to know and trust them because I have been hurt by people and I have come to associate them with pain? A bit like you associate a boiling kettle with hot water and if you stick your hand in you will get burned.

If you mix with people you will get hurt....sounds like some form of social anxiety to me.

I may be ok with blushing but I know the world is judgemental about it. I may be ok with babbling or being too quiet because I am nervous but i know the world is judgemental about it. When it comes to socialising what I think is ok does not matter, it seems to about what the people who I am socialising with seems to think matters. So if they think blushing is bad that is the criteria you are judged (and either accepted or rejected) by people on, not what you think about blushing. People don't care about what you think about blushing. They are ego obsessed and bully you into thinking in the same way as them because their way of thinking is the only right way and if you don't think like they do you must have something wrong with you...holy f**k that is arrogance beyond all belief.

And because of that arrogance people are hurt, people are left die, people condemned to a life of misery by an up it's own arse society. And nothing is done, people keep feeding the ego.

Only those people with a wounded ego can get therapy now? So does that mean that therapy is only for those who require ego masturbation due to insecurity and ego obsession? People who have been hurt or whom are being hurt are not given help? Why?

PN don't worry about the suicidal ideation it has passed now. I was due my period (I should known as the only time I actually feel suicidal is several days before she is about to arrive. It is a pattern I have been aware of for a long time but can't get anyone to listen or take my rather severe pms seriously, but I didn't think I was due this week so I was surprised to see aunt flow arrive this morning).

My opinion on the destructive nature of the present day ego obsession stands though.

Now people can have their ego obsession if they want but I am not going to put up with being made a victim of it.

Hey, nice to see your reply above. The blaming others thing is quite common. In the old days, discipline in the world was strict and everybody was supposed to behave properly towards others. This meant that people who do not have AS had to be self-controlled and not do several things that to an NT seem minor but an AS person would regard as teasing, bullying or even abuse. People with AS were taught enough life skills by strict rule-based people interaction that most of us could disguise ourselves and act like NTs even if we didn't understand WHY we were supposed to, or not supposed to, do or say a particular thing.

This discipline, rigid rules of good manners, courtesy, etc., masked the fact that some people couldn't work well without it; this happened because in yesteryear EVERYBODY had to obey the rules.

Sadly, with the rise of freedom of choice, diversity, etc, the flip-side is that society is less rigid and more variable and people with AS can't cope with that. I know a woman with AS who can fake normality very well; she was obviously bought up by a strict traditional family - when she talked about them once, she made them sound like rigid tradition-observing disciplinarians. She was lucky to be one of the last to be brought up "the old way", so she largely got away with her AS, though not entirely in her personal life. I had a mixed bag as regards family life, some good, some bad so I got away with some of it but not all and eventually failed.

So the problem is that people think you are wrongly blaming them because they don't see their behaviour to you as abusive, where as 50 years ago they would have and would have not done it as they'd have been too afraid of being told off by the elders, partners, parents or authorities. There can be other reasons as well, but I don't want to go into them on a public part of the forum.

So your therapist is mostly wrong. Most of it is not ultimately your fault; you were never given the chance to learn to fake normality well, especially with the family problems you suffered; in other ways its because NTs don't see as abusive some things that by today's moral relativism are acceptable but by pure logic and therefore by absolute justice ARE abusive.


And I'm glad you explained the suicide thing. I remember you saying on another thread about PMS related issues but obviously didn't know about the suicidal feelings connection at the time.

I get lonely too. I don't need to feel that I belong to a group, but I do sometimes need someone to talk to who understands me.

Many people with ASD have varying degrees of social skills. So I fail to see what that would prove one way or the other.

Hi Bumble,

Nice to see you again.

Ever been to the Salisbury Plain? I experienced a beautiful purple sunset there, by Stonehenge. I wish I could have just lied there, in the grass, and contemplated the stars.

One thing about the UK--there are very few billboards on motorways--and what do exist do not conflict with the landscape. Here, in the US, we are inundated by them on our Interstates (the American equivalent of motorways).

Have you ever imagined what your role would have been among the Neolithic people who constructed Stonehenge? I would imagine that you would have been one who traveled from place to place, soaking up the influences of other lands, and imparting upon the insular people amongst whom you live that knowledge--and you would have done it in style, like a storyteller.

It's always good to make use of one's imagination--it (paradoxically) takes one outside of one's self. If one remains within one's self too long, everything becomes adulterated by the lack of outside influences. Ideas become like products of incest: defective. You remain within the Abyss. You've lived in the dark cave too long to see the Escape Hatch.

Hope to hear from you soon.

It may be that I am struggling to cope with people who seem to hate themselves and that is why I am not enjoying social interaction. It is really depressing as they don't seem to be able to enjoy or appreciate anything in life. I know I used to enjoy socialising on and off with people who did fun things. The man I dated for 7 years and who wanted to marry me never mentioned self hatred or similar. We just went out together and did fun things like going to theme parks or out for meals or for country drives. We lived together for a while and had a child together. He liked my quirks, they amused him because I was so strange but he never kept judging me or expecting me to hate myself. When he proposed though I got scared and said no. That broke the relationship up. I sort of regret it, he was one of the few who liked me as I was.

I dated another after that for 2 years who was also bemused by my oddities, but I broke that relationship off too. He was a lot older than me (25 years older) and I wanted someone younger or nearer my age in those days. That might have been an error on my part. He was a very nice person.

Since then I have not encountered a human who did not keep talking about self hatred and self worth. I have had very few nights out, have not been to a theme park in 10 years and when I do meet up with people its all about the worth/hatred stuff. I don't know what happened to the world. People used to do fun things.

I may well have some mild autism present but that may not be why I have stopped enjoying the company of humans. It may be that I am not able to cope with their obsession with self hatred and self worth when there are so many more interesting and wonderful and beautiful things in the world to entertain yourself with.

If i can find others who are not so into the self worth thing we may be able to enjoy some time together by focusing on fun things to do and being light hearted about things.

Also if I am around people who understand me it may make communication easier.

For example if I was quiet when I was growing up people like the guy i dated for 7 years used to just think I didn't have anything to say and we could happily sit together silently, in comfort. These days if I am quiet people think there is something wrong or that I am being unfriendly. It is often a case of neither and it would be nice to find someone who is ok with comfortable silences again. Where you can just be together without having to say anything.

Being quiet could mean any number of things and the world seems to forget this or it doesn't realise it which makes me think their communication skills are not actually as good as they think they are. Maybe with people who don't keep misreading everything I do and say I might find socialising with them easier. Alternatively someone who is willing to allow me to say what I am thinking or feeling if they do misread me and make an error (I don't mind being misread if people will let me correct any misunderstandings).

For example people often misread what I am feeling and offer me comfort for feelings I am not experiencing (such as assuming I am always upset by failure...um it depends on what the consequences are and how much the failure is going to impact my life in certain ways as I really just see it as a learning curve. Some failure I am neutral about (no real negative impact on my life or i can find another way around or alternative solution so its not really a problem) others I may be concerned about (definite negative impact on my life that may result in reduced quality of living for example and some i might actually be pleased about especially if the failure results in something better than what I was aiming for in the first place). In short I am more affected by the consequences than the idea that I failed or failure itself. People will always assume though that I am upset...as a default.

If I point out what I am really feeling when they try to comfort me I am apparently being the insensitive one because I am a 'logical thinker' (not strictly true....I have the ability to think logically but I can think emotionally as well, just as i can think in both words and pictures rather than just thinking in one way or another which it is assumed I do even by the psychology professionals....odd) where as my therapist thinks thinks the people offering comfort are the empathic sensitive ones.

Um....

Firstly empathy basically means understanding what another is thinking or feeling. These people have not understood what I am thinking or feeling and are not being empathic at all. It's the exact opposite of empathic actually.

Nor are they being sensitive, as they are forcing feelings and thoughts on me that I am not feeling and pitying me for them. This I find offensive and emotionally/psychologically distressing. They are in fact being as insensitive and are causing me upset by their refusal to accept that I do not feel as they think I do or by their attack on me when they accuse me of being ungreatful for their support.

But they were not giving me support they were upsetting me with their lack of empathy and insensitivity and I am not allowed to say anything because it might wound their ego.

Socialising is horrible sometimes and really distressing.

Perhaps if I could find people who can read me...I might find it easier.

It may be my difficulties stem from the above rather than the ASD itself.

I didn't mean that you gossip, if you understood that. Sorry, I can't explain myself well and tend to sound rude. AS's fault.

I don't know, why do people usually get aggressive towards you? Any reason you think there might be? Or they just do it without any reason? Maybe you are sorrounded by idiots?


Maybe the difference between me and you is that you care about people while I don't?
I found out that even if you show empathy/sympathy towards people or you want to help them, some of them might get aggressive towards you. Maybe that was your case.
Personally, if that person hadn't openly hit me and he had "just" made me worried, I wouldn't have talked to him at all. I might have talked about it if the person was a friend of mine and I knew them well, but if he was just a person I knew and nothing more I wouldn't have cared. And if he had hit me, I would have reacted by hitting him back, not by talking about it with him. I have anger issues and I tend to be very vengeful, and hit, hit, hit, if someone just punches me.
I usually don't care about people's problems. I mean, when I see beggars in the streets I give them some of the money I have if I have any with me, if someone asks me for help I help them, if someone is having a heart attack/is wounded/is dying I try to help them, but if someone I know is drinking alcohol/is doing drugs I don't care unless they're friends. A neighbour of mine has been doing drugs/drinking for years; sometimes his behaviour made me worried that he would harm me, but I never talked with him about it. I just tried to stay as far as possible for him and everything is still ok.
My advice isn't worth much, but if you want it, don't care about most people unless they openly threaten you or are kind to you/close to you. Most people aren't worth any sympathy, they forget the good you do to them, the more you give them, the worst they treat you. Sadly, I feel that people who deeply care about others like you are not understood and are the most likely to be abused by other. I know because my best friend goes through the same thing everyday (she is not AS). This is why, in a way, I consider myself lucky for not being empathetic, but just a selfish a**hole.