Conservative admits smart people not Conservative

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Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 5:59 pm

Jacoby wrote:
To apply the term progressive to the working class I don't think is correct, while these people might be in favor of unions and government assistance and other stuff progressives support they never accepted "progressive" social values and have remain personally quite conservative. Progressive social values have gone completely wacko cuckoo, political correctness is suffocating this country and the people naturally are resisting. Most normal people are not ideologues, they vote based on economic or social/cultural self-interest so they are malleable in terms of how to accomplish this. Democrats have moved away from the working class to the corporate donor class, environmentalists, and divisive identity politics all of which pretty much directly oppose the interests of American working class. They have become the dominant party of capital, the party of Wall Street.

This is why Trump scares Democrats so much since economic nationalism is good for the working class while globalism is how these big huge corporations how screwed the working class for decades now, Trump is not an ideologue on social issues and is rebelling against this totalitarian political correctness. Trump wins with your pocketbook, he wins at foreign policy, he promises to be a warrior for the American people which the special interests are at war with. There will be a realignment, American political parties have always shifted in terms of internal factions but the reality is that GOP electorate liked what Trump had to say and his stances on the issues more than what the GOP was offering. Trump essentially ran as an independent in the GOP primary, they rejected the party platform straight up because there is no way Trump would have survived all that he has survived without that.


I dunno... I think it's a mistake to assume that a whole swath of the population holds one or another particular set of social values based solely on social class. My dad was a working class guy, and union member, and he was for the most part a social liberal, as were friends he worked with, but there were others my dad knew who were conservative Republicans.


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BaalChatzaf
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15 Jun 2016, 8:15 pm

Was William F. Buckley Jr. smart or not?


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Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 8:37 pm

BaalChatzaf wrote:
Was William F. Buckley Jr. smart or not?


Oh, he was. But he could also be a jackass.


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GoonSquad
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15 Jun 2016, 8:59 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
BaalChatzaf wrote:
Was William F. Buckley Jr. smart or not?


Oh, he was. But he could also be a jackass.

Yeah but Buckley and his cohort were a whole nuther kind of conservative... The kind who would call BS on Ayn Rand.


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Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 9:02 pm

GoonSquad wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
BaalChatzaf wrote:
Was William F. Buckley Jr. smart or not?


Oh, he was. But he could also be a jackass.

Yeah but Buckley and his cohort were a whole nuther kind of conservative... The kind who would call BS on Ayn Rand.


Absolutely true. To his credit, he had opposed the lunatic fringe following Barry Goldwater, and doubtlessly would have spoken out against the same types filling the ranks of trump's fanclub.


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yelekam
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15 Jun 2016, 9:25 pm

Kraichgauer wrote:
At one time, conservatives could boast of having genuine intellectuals the likes of William F. Buckley in their corner. Today, education and intelligence is seen in many conservative circles as the realm of liberal elitists, preferring the pontifications of such dullards as Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin. The right believe they've found their niche among disaffected white working class people, and the rural underclass, who see their notions of religion, sexuality, and race relations under fire, and they play such people with their fears for all they're worth.


They still do have some intellectuals and educated academics on their side. Though they have largely retreated from the colleges and have taken refuge in think tanks and places like liberty university. I would regard this as a mistake for the conservatives to cede the ground of academia. If they were sensible they would try to take back a significant stage in colleges and the media; so that they balance out the influence. If they continue to allow their opponents to dominate these areas without contest, then the young will be largely swept up.



yelekam
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15 Jun 2016, 9:32 pm

simon_says wrote:
Santorum is upset because he sees education as a threat to faith.

He is upset about a lot of things he sees as a threat to his faith. Education, science, morality, etc...



Kraichgauer
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15 Jun 2016, 11:55 pm

yelekam wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
At one time, conservatives could boast of having genuine intellectuals the likes of William F. Buckley in their corner. Today, education and intelligence is seen in many conservative circles as the realm of liberal elitists, preferring the pontifications of such dullards as Michele Bachmann and Sarah Palin. The right believe they've found their niche among disaffected white working class people, and the rural underclass, who see their notions of religion, sexuality, and race relations under fire, and they play such people with their fears for all they're worth.


They still do have some intellectuals and educated academics on their side. Though they have largely retreated from the colleges and have taken refuge in think tanks and places like liberty university. I would regard this as a mistake for the conservatives to cede the ground of academia. If they were sensible they would try to take back a significant stage in colleges and the media; so that they balance out the influence. If they continue to allow their opponents to dominate these areas without contest, then the young will be largely swept up.


I personally wouldn't count Liberty University as a place for intellectualism.


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16 Jun 2016, 1:44 pm

Well, both social and political classes in my country seem to always gain the upper hand, whether some normal voters like it or not.

It's purely class instinct to vote for a party which has held the majority of votes for a while, but whilst this element of voting has been used for some time, things like trade relations and customs controls aren't really thought of until they are forced to make a decision that impacts upon them, like keeping our NHS free from E.U backbenchers, which no smart opinion poll can conclude.

There will be setbacks if we leave the E.U, but ultimately in the long run, people will be given back their say on reforms and not leave it by proxy to decide, which seems to make up most of the vote but, each independant person has a right to know how it could affect their family and how, they can foresee in the future what will happen for them.

People want lots of things, so lets hope they are able to get them. The ties can only be suppressed by scaremongering non voters and expats, along with ex bureaucrats and prisoners of E.U law.