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YourMajesty
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17 May 2014, 5:24 am

I feel it's an unending struggle.

You support feminism? ==> You want to castrate little boys.
You support feminism? ==> You want me on a leash
You support feminism? ==> WHAT ABOUT ME?
You support feminism? ==> You MUST hate men. You awful being!
You support feminism? ==> So you think <completely out of context taken feminist quote, seemingly very bizarre and extreme until you know where it comes from>???


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billiscool
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17 May 2014, 7:52 pm

starvingartist wrote:
just seems like someone needed to state this explicitly somewhere on this forum.

i'm really tired of having the same conversation with people over and over again about how i'm a reasonable feminist who does NOT advocate for the enslavement of men and so are all the other feminists i know. maybe i should get it tattooed on my forehead or something.


People can disargee with feminism,no matter how mild or
radical they are. Im not a feminist,Alot of people are not feminist.
It's not personal,it just politic.



starvingartist
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17 May 2014, 7:54 pm

billiscool wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
just seems like someone needed to state this explicitly somewhere on this forum.

i'm really tired of having the same conversation with people over and over again about how i'm a reasonable feminist who does NOT advocate for the enslavement of men and so are all the other feminists i know. maybe i should get it tattooed on my forehead or something.


People can disargee with feminism,no matter how mild or
radical they are. Im not a feminist,Alot of people are not feminist.
It's not personal,it just politic.


so you disagree with "mild" feminists who only want equality as well as the radicals, this is what you're saying?



billiscool
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17 May 2014, 8:02 pm

starvingartist wrote:

so you disagree with "mild" feminists who only want equality as well as the radicals, this is what you're saying?


Im not a feminist,Do I have rights not to be a feminist.
You seem to not want to accept that not everyone
has to agree with your Politic view.Yes that right,
Feminism is Political ideology.A Political group.



starvingartist
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17 May 2014, 8:09 pm

billiscool wrote:
starvingartist wrote:

so you disagree with "mild" feminists who only want equality as well as the radicals, this is what you're saying?


Im not a feminist,Do I have rights not to be a feminist.
You seem to not want to accept that not everyone
has to agree with your Politic view.Yes that right,
Feminism is Political ideology.A Political group.


what i was asking is whether you think women and men should have equal rights and treatment under the law (that's how i would define "mild" feminism or egalitarianism, if you like that term better).



kraftiekortie
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17 May 2014, 8:09 pm

I believe men and woman should be equal under the law.



billiscool
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17 May 2014, 8:37 pm

starvingartist wrote:
what i was asking is whether you think women and men should have equal rights and treatment under the law (that's how i would define "mild" feminism or egalitarianism, if you like that term better).


Sure,but most feminist would hate true equality.
So women should have equal jail time as men.
Women should pay for dinner equal amount of times.
Women should get child custody half the time.
Women should do equally hard work,equal hours as men.

when comes to it,feminist don't want to have true equality
as men.



billiscool
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17 May 2014, 8:40 pm

kraftiekortie wrote:
I believe men and woman should be equal under the law.


They all ready are.But feminist just want to take the easy way.



starvingartist
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17 May 2014, 8:43 pm

billiscool wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
what i was asking is whether you think women and men should have equal rights and treatment under the law (that's how i would define "mild" feminism or egalitarianism, if you like that term better).


Sure,but most feminist would hate true equality.
when comes to it,feminist don't want to have true equality
as men
.


what is your evidence* to support this claim (that the majority of feminists don't want equality)?

*not personal opinion or anedotes, but actual empirical evidence.



billiscool
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17 May 2014, 8:52 pm

starvingartist wrote:

what is your evidence* to support this claim (that the majority of feminists don't want equality)?

*not personal opinion or anedotes, but actual empirical evidence.


http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/05/05 ... -equality/

http://www.kstatecollegian.com/2014/02/ ... nequality/

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/11/24/war-on-men/



billiscool
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17 May 2014, 8:58 pm

some of the best anti-feminist stuff are from women.
Yeah,Girls.



starvingartist
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17 May 2014, 9:24 pm

starvingartist wrote:
what is your evidence* to support this claim (that the majority of feminists don't want equality)?

*not personal opinion or anedotes, but actual empirical evidence.


billiscool wrote:
http://www.the-spearhead.com/2013/05/05/a-feminist-admits-that-feminism-isnt-about-equality/


this is an article containing one woman's opinion about feminism--that does not meet the requirement of empirical evidence. it contains no studies or polls indicating most feminists desire supremacy. please look up the term "empirical evidence" and then try to find some to support your argument.

billiscool wrote:
http://www.kstatecollegian.com/2014/02/23/third-wave-feminism-requires-inequality/

see above.

billiscool wrote:
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/11/24/war-on-men/


Stephen Colbert Tears Apart Suzanne Venker's "War On Men" Fox News Article



legokitten
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19 May 2014, 5:50 am

My point. Women know what they want. Here they are clearly stating that they want equality. In other words, basic human rights.

This is non debatable.



MindBlind
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19 May 2014, 7:29 am

I won't lie - I have been and still am quite disillusioned with the feminist movement. I feel the latest trends of this current wave of feminism has been focusing more on minutia than what I feel are more pressing issues. For instance, the professional victims who complain about online harrassment even though they willingly fuel the fire. People like Anita Sarkeesian who bad done nothing to improve the gaming industry (she didn't even play most of the games she claimed to investigate, let alone any objective, thorough research), and all of her research is based on conjecture. But by playing the victim card,she is now working for games companies and given awards. How? I know women in the games industry who actually understand game design and has contributed way more than she could imagine and where are their abassadorships? Where are their awards and interviews on wired magazine? Their TEDx talks and educational programs? f**k all.

We can sit here and complain that the radicals don't represent feminism, but they're the ones that have the political power. They're the ones that implemented the tender years doctrine and the ones that have campaigned against rape as a gender neutral crime. They implemented the violence against women act ffs, even though men are most likely to be victims of violence. They are also at the forefront of banning prostitution and pornography which actually puts women's, mens and childrens lives in danger. And why? Because their narrative about lens entitlement to women's bodies is more important than people's lives. Hell, they go as far as to distort evidence. The 1 in 4 statistic is a blatant lie, for instance. I think even RAINN have criticised this (gel, they criticised the notion of rape culture, which is the first time I can say they are okay by me). And if you disagree with anything they say, they dismiss you by saying you have internalized misogyny or are an MRA (who are just as bad, by the way). The only feminists I can respect are sex positive feminists and possibly liberal/libertarian feminists as their goal is to give women agency and equality under the law, not impose their prudish agenda on others.

If you're a feminist but you are ratio al and don't give into the mob mentality that the current wave is happy to indulge in (which has gone as far as violence and censorship) then I you're fine. Hell - believe in some nefarious patriarchy if you want - in fact, I wouldn't disagree with that(at least not entirely) but I feel the spoiled, college brats of the current feminist movement have really destroyed everything we've worked hard for.



Schneekugel
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20 May 2014, 3:00 am

billiscool wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
what i was asking is whether you think women and men should have equal rights and treatment under the law (that's how i would define "mild" feminism or egalitarianism, if you like that term better).


Sure,but most feminist would hate true equality.
So women should have equal jail time as men.
Women should pay for dinner equal amount of times.
Women should get child custody half the time.
Women should do equally hard work,equal hours as men.

when comes to it,feminist don't want to have true equality
as men.


You mean all of that stuff, thats already pretty normal in more feminist western europe, but still struggles in outdated macho USA? Has it ever occured to you, that the more outdated an society is and still think in terms of "man = moneyearner", "woman = childcare" the more outdated laws are about child custody?

What do you think supports unequal child custody laws more: An society thinking its the womans job to raise the kids, or an society thinking its the parents job to raise the kids?



legokitten
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20 May 2014, 12:23 pm

Most US courts have, or are moving to the new 50/50 model where the child floats between two permanent homes. There is no benefit for either parent financially or otherwise. Maternal custody has been on the decline since the 80s but I'm sure you ladies here in the Women's Discussion are aware of that.