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RunningFox
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14 May 2014, 7:05 pm

Yes, and it would be a mistake to think that this ended with the fall of the Nazis. Many developed western countries including the U.S. and around Europe still harbor people who feel very strongly about doing this and they have some very good propaganda techniques of their own.



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14 May 2014, 8:05 pm

thomas81 wrote:
naturalplastic wrote:
AspieOtaku wrote:
thomas81 wrote:
You know not only was Asperger autistic he served under the Wehrmacht.
Irony? Could this be the precursor to Autism Speaks? :chin:


Wheres the irony?

His country of Austria merged with Germany.

The Wermacht was not the SS, nor the Gestapo, it was the regular German Army.
).


Perhaps so, but under Hitler's rule it was still a tool of the nazi ideology.

Anyone in it with any kind of trait deemed undesirable would have been quickly weeded out.


It should be pointed out that the opposition to Hitler and the Nazis was mostly found in the ranks of the Wermacht and it's inteligence arm, the Abwehr - men of conscience like Klaus Von Stauffenberg, Wilhlem Cannaris, and Erwin Rommel. These true German partriots recognized that soldiers fought to defended their country, not to murder innocent people who didn't fit in with the ideology of a raving maniac.


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14 May 2014, 8:30 pm

mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Hitler wanted to kill everyone who wasn't a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-skinned, heterosexual, non-disabled, National Socialist, Christian of German ancestry. People often think that he just wanted to kill the Jews or non-white people or communists, but the fact is that he wanted to kill EVERYBODY who didn't conform to his narrow set of specifications.


Perfecting the aryan race was more of a long term goal to be achieved by genetic engineering.
As far as autistics and the other mentally handicapped it was a matter of whether or not an individual was useful. If someone's doing something constructive they wouldn't be noticed.


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14 May 2014, 8:56 pm

Raptor wrote:
mr_bigmouth_502 wrote:
Hitler wanted to kill everyone who wasn't a blonde-haired, blue-eyed, white-skinned, heterosexual, non-disabled, National Socialist, Christian of German ancestry. People often think that he just wanted to kill the Jews or non-white people or communists, but the fact is that he wanted to kill EVERYBODY who didn't conform to his narrow set of specifications.


Perfecting the aryan race was more of a long term goal to be achieved by genetic engineering.
As far as autistics and the other mentally handicapped it was a matter of whether or not an individual was useful. If someone's doing something constructive they wouldn't be noticed.


Unless they were a musician or an artist. "Productive" meant productive for the Nazi agenda, not the greater good of everyone. Jews were some of the most productive people of the German society, they ran a lot of business and drove a lot of economy.



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14 May 2014, 9:16 pm

RunningFox wrote:
Unless they were a musician or an artist. "Productive" meant productive for the Nazi agenda, not the greater good of everyone.
I meant useful by the standards of the governing entity.

Quote:
Jews were some of the most productive people of the German society, they ran a lot of business and drove a lot of economy.
I know.
It would have done Hitler and the entire third reich well if he'd just swallowed his antisemitism and allowed the Jews to continue being productive regular members of German society. They wasted a hell of a lot of technical talent and manpower by persecuting the Jews.


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14 May 2014, 10:21 pm

Raptor wrote:
RunningFox wrote:
Unless they were a musician or an artist. "Productive" meant productive for the Nazi agenda, not the greater good of everyone.
I meant useful by the standards of the governing entity.

Quote:
Jews were some of the most productive people of the German society, they ran a lot of business and drove a lot of economy.
I know.
It would have done Hitler and the entire third reich well if he'd just swallowed his antisemitism and allowed the Jews to continue being productive regular members of German society. They wasted a hell of a lot of technical talent and manpower by persecuting the Jews.


Not only that, but Hitler might have ended up with the atomic bomb. But because of his Antisemitism, he called the proper science for building the thing "Jewish science," and so wanted nothing to do with it. He had told Heisenberg to find some other way to build the bomb. Heisenberg, as it turns out, didn't know how to build the A Bomb - and it doubtlessly didn't help Hitler in that Heisenberg was purposely dragging his feet.


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14 May 2014, 10:37 pm

/\ There's no way the allies would have assassinated Hitler even if there'd been a golden opportunity. He was of greater value being left in place to accelerate Germany's losing the war.
One blunder after the other.


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14 May 2014, 10:40 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\ There's no way the allies would have assassinated Hitler even if there'd been a golden opportunity. He was of greater value being left in place to accelerate Germany's losing the war.
One blunder after the other.


That was doubtlessly true.


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15 May 2014, 4:42 am

Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RunningFox wrote:
Unless they were a musician or an artist. "Productive" meant productive for the Nazi agenda, not the greater good of everyone.
I meant useful by the standards of the governing entity.

Quote:
Jews were some of the most productive people of the German society, they ran a lot of business and drove a lot of economy.
I know.
It would have done Hitler and the entire third reich well if he'd just swallowed his antisemitism and allowed the Jews to continue being productive regular members of German society. They wasted a hell of a lot of technical talent and manpower by persecuting the Jews.


Not only that, but Hitler might have ended up with the atomic bomb. But because of his Antisemitism, he called the proper science for building the thing "Jewish science," and so wanted nothing to do with it. He had told Heisenberg to find some other way to build the bomb. Heisenberg, as it turns out, didn't know how to build the A Bomb - and it doubtlessly didn't help Hitler in that Heisenberg was purposely dragging his feet.

And, of course, many of the best German physicists were Jewish, including Einstein, and had fled Nazi persecution.

You have to wonder what Hitler would have chosen - win the war with the help of German Jews, or lose it but exterminate them. Obviously it's more complex than that (they could have won or lost with or without them), but I don't know whether his priority was winning the war or exterminating the unfit. I guess there's little to stop him winning the war and then exterminating...



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15 May 2014, 12:53 pm

The_Walrus wrote:
Kraichgauer wrote:
Raptor wrote:
RunningFox wrote:
Unless they were a musician or an artist. "Productive" meant productive for the Nazi agenda, not the greater good of everyone.
I meant useful by the standards of the governing entity.

Quote:
Jews were some of the most productive people of the German society, they ran a lot of business and drove a lot of economy.
I know.
It would have done Hitler and the entire third reich well if he'd just swallowed his antisemitism and allowed the Jews to continue being productive regular members of German society. They wasted a hell of a lot of technical talent and manpower by persecuting the Jews.


Not only that, but Hitler might have ended up with the atomic bomb. But because of his Antisemitism, he called the proper science for building the thing "Jewish science," and so wanted nothing to do with it. He had told Heisenberg to find some other way to build the bomb. Heisenberg, as it turns out, didn't know how to build the A Bomb - and it doubtlessly didn't help Hitler in that Heisenberg was purposely dragging his feet.

And, of course, many of the best German physicists were Jewish, including Einstein, and had fled Nazi persecution.

You have to wonder what Hitler would have chosen - win the war with the help of German Jews, or lose it but exterminate them. Obviously it's more complex than that (they could have won or lost with or without them), but I don't know whether his priority was winning the war or exterminating the unfit. I guess there's little to stop him winning the war and then exterminating...


Goes to show you how hate can go beyond just the irrational, and crosses the threshold into the pathological - even if it means in the end losing everthing, as Hitler did.


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RunningFox
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15 May 2014, 10:08 pm

Raptor wrote:
/\ There's no way the allies would have assassinated Hitler even if there'd been a golden opportunity. He was of greater value being left in place to accelerate Germany's losing the war.
One blunder after the other.
\\If you look at all the huge gaffs Hitler caused its almost hard to believe that they Nazis got as far as they did. Hitler was a master criminal politician and dictator. The raised an enormous army and industrial power house. He was surrounded by some of the most ingenious generals, scientists, tacticians, pilots and commanders. His army had as much or more specialized skill than all the rest of his enemies combined. Yet he managed to use his position of ultimate authority to over ride people who were smarter than him at some things in such a way as to squander everything they had ever built. He told Rommel that he was crazy when he insisted that they reinforce their Atlantic wall in France. Rommel knew that the allies were going to invade from that location and Hitler denied him his reinforcements. If that position had been reinforced according to Rommels demands it would have made the D-Day invasion completely impossible. Hitler made an astounding amount of these kinds of game changing mistakes. Yes he was a good figurehead but he fancied him self a general when in fact he was not qualified, he simply had the authority to do what ever he wanted.



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15 May 2014, 10:55 pm

RunningFox wrote:
Raptor wrote:
/\ There's no way the allies would have assassinated Hitler even if there'd been a golden opportunity. He was of greater value being left in place to accelerate Germany's losing the war.
One blunder after the other.
\\If you look at all the huge gaffs Hitler caused its almost hard to believe that they Nazis got as far as they did. Hitler was a master criminal politician and dictator. The raised an enormous army and industrial power house. He was surrounded by some of the most ingenious generals, scientists, tacticians, pilots and commanders. His army had as much or more specialized skill than all the rest of his enemies combined. Yet he managed to use his position of ultimate authority to over ride people who were smarter than him at some things in such a way as to squander everything they had ever built. He told Rommel that he was crazy when he insisted that they reinforce their Atlantic wall in France. Rommel knew that the allies were going to invade from that location and Hitler denied him his reinforcements. If that position had been reinforced according to Rommels demands it would have made the D-Day invasion completely impossible. Hitler made an astounding amount of these kinds of game changing mistakes. Yes he was a good figurehead but he fancied him self a general when in fact he was not qualified, he simply had the authority to do what ever he wanted.


Hitler was a masterful politician, but he had greatly overestimated himself as a military commander.


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16 May 2014, 1:53 am

RunningFox wrote:
Yes, and it would be a mistake to think that this ended with the fall of the Nazis. Many developed western countries including the U.S. and around Europe still harbor people who feel very strongly about doing this and they have some very good propaganda techniques of their own.


We still have a street named after Charles Fremont Dight in Minneapolis.