THIS ISN'T THE ELLIOT ROGERS FORUM!! !

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MindBlind
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27 May 2014, 7:05 pm

What the hell?

I understand that some people want to discuss how perhaps, they see parallels with his sentiments and their own experiences, but this is hardly a dating forum anymore. Its getting completely derailed by a political campaign rather than people just sharing their dating experiences.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be feminist discussion on this forum. I'm saying that there shouldn't only be feminist discussion. Plus, some of these threads really belong in he politics forum instead or perhaps the women's forum.



Misslizard
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27 May 2014, 7:17 pm

He would enjoy all the attention,better to remember the victims than him.You know he sat around and gloated thinking how everyone would go on and on about him.


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ReverieMe
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27 May 2014, 7:34 pm

Misslizard wrote:
He would enjoy all the attention,better to remember the victims than him.You know he sat around and gloated thinking how everyone would go on and on about him.


Alas, human nature is predictable.



Ferrus91
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27 May 2014, 7:55 pm

But in a way, aren't we all Elliot Rodgers?



Nights_Like_These
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27 May 2014, 8:11 pm

Ferrus91 wrote:
But in a way, aren't we all Elliot Rodgers?


No...


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onewithstrange
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27 May 2014, 8:12 pm

First of all, let's tone down the hyperbole. L&D isn't being "completely derailed" by Elliot Rodger threads -- I count 4 related threads on the first page. You're still free to post whatever dating questions\insights you have. Some people felt compelled to post the topics in this forum because, frankly, some posters have expressed Rodger's brand of misogyny either implicitly in how they blame women for their predicaments or explicitly in any of the PUA threads.


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BuyerBeware
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27 May 2014, 8:21 pm

Nights_Like_These wrote:
Ferrus91 wrote:
But in a way, aren't we all Elliot Rodgers?


No...


Well, yes and no.

Yes, all of us (probably all people) have moments when we FEEL like that. When we can, sadly, relate.

No, because the vast majority of us, when we have those feelings and are faced with a choice, choose to feel them and let them pass, then get up and go on doing the best we can to enjoy the life we have (instead of growing hateful lamenting the one we think we ought to have).

And, if the vast majority of us have the impulse to kill, we brush it off, or snuff it out, or do whatever we do. And we DON'T feed it, nurture it, invoke it, and end up acting on it.

I agree with Misslizzard. It's worth considering his state of mind and where he went wrong, cause what you learn from someone else's mistakes is sort of like basically free wisdom, and you can hardly blame us for discussing how the media coverage affects us and our lives...

...but the stupid little spoiled s**t deserves no attention in his own right.

Miserable little puke.


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SoftwareEngineer
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27 May 2014, 9:03 pm

starvingartist wrote:
Giftorcurse wrote:
People say that I just need to be confident, change clothes, take steroids, etc. Sometimes, I get the feeling I have to be an utterly psychopathic barbarian just to please someone of the opposite sex. Ruthless, callous, vicious. After all, they get ahead in society.


son, i'm sorry but i think your timing is really atrocious in creating this thread. perhaps now is not the time to be publicly lamenting your datelessness. find something else to think about for a while until this recent shooting is not so fresh in people's minds, maybe?

edit* to add: i'm not trying to be mean--i know loneliness is no fun for anyone, i have been there myself. it's just really bad timing.


The exchange above is from "How do I really get a girl?" in the Love and Dating sub-Forum. Clearly, this has become the Elliot Rodgers sub-forum. And, clearly, it is not a place where love and dating is considered an appropriate subject, by at least one user. How can a young man who wants a girlfriend be treated this way? Remember, these feelings are common among men and women on the spectrum. They come here to deal with those feelings. This is the place to help with advise and coping, not inflict shame. And certainly, not assign the shame of a mass murderer.

Post note: Many have speculated about the possibility that Elliot Rodgers may have been a member here. Well, consider this - What if Elliot Rodgers had come here seeking the help and support of other autistics? What if two years ago, he had posted to L&D a request for help and some assurances? Maybe, the outcome would have been different. Maybe, he would have spent the last two years with the feeling that some people understood and cared. Myself, I still wouldn't be surprised if many factors in the murders went far beyond anything we see in the video - we don't know for sure. But still, why discourage someone who wants a bit of help and encouragement getting a proper mindset and attitude?

Further note: You know, perhaps Elliot Rodgers really did come here asking for help. What if the investigation turns up a WP user name? What if his posts and the responses he received end up on TV news? What if the mother of one of the dead victims asks into the camera "Why didn't you help him? He asked for help. You could have helped him. Why did you treat him that way?"



Last edited by SoftwareEngineer on 27 May 2014, 9:44 pm, edited 4 times in total.

Nights_Like_These
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27 May 2014, 9:06 pm

SoftwareEngineer wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
Giftorcurse wrote:
People say that I just need to be confident, change clothes, take steroids, etc. Sometimes, I get the feeling I have to be an utterly psychopathic barbarian just to please someone of the opposite sex. Ruthless, callous, vicious. After all, they get ahead in society.


son, i'm sorry but i think your timing is really atrocious in creating this thread. perhaps now is not the time to be publicly lamenting your datelessness. find something else to think about for a while until this recent shooting is not so fresh in people's minds, maybe?

edit* to add: i'm not trying to be mean--i know loneliness is no fun for anyone, i have been there myself. it's just really bad timing.


The exchange above is from "How do I really get a girl?" in the Love and Dating sub-Forum. Clearly, this has become the Elliot Rodgers sub-forum. And, clearly, it is not a place where love and dating is considered an appropriate subject, by at least one user. How can a young man who wants a girlfriend be treated this way?


Did you read the rest of the thread you just quoted from? lol He's not exactly an innocent young man.


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SoftwareEngineer
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27 May 2014, 9:11 pm

No, I read the early response. But, that is, on it's own, deplorable. My point is, those threads should be somewhere else.



starvingartist
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27 May 2014, 9:39 pm

SoftwareEngineer wrote:
No, I read the early response. But, that is, on it's own, deplorable. My point is, those threads should be somewhere else.


the mods seem to disagree with you.



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27 May 2014, 10:54 pm

While I haven't been following this story very closely, there was a discussion of it tonight on Dr. Drew On Call. While I personally think Dr. Drew is a jackass, the discussion with the other members of the group, one of who has a daughter on the spectrum, tended to agree that the shooter did NOT have an ASD, but was instead, a spoiled rich brat, who felt everybody had to kowtow to him.

On another story, the Tea Party pundit known as Joe the Plumber is rubbing s*** into the faces of the victim's parents, stating his Second Amendment rights trump their tragedies every time. Now I know why I can't stand the political right, and most conservatives, as well as most liberals (being that I'm a centrist most of the time). They're all a bunch of louts!


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27 May 2014, 11:08 pm

It's so nice that everyone is caught up with only one portion of his murders.

I'm starting to think everyone is noiseist. Yeah, I said it. Noiseist.

I also think people are firearmists too. Yeah, I said that too. Firearmists.

I also, also think people are tragedy whores whom peddle their own hidden agendas.


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28 May 2014, 3:55 am

SoftwareEngineer wrote:
starvingartist wrote:
Giftorcurse wrote:
People say that I just need to be confident, change clothes, take steroids, etc. Sometimes, I get the feeling I have to be an utterly psychopathic barbarian just to please someone of the opposite sex. Ruthless, callous, vicious. After all, they get ahead in society.


son, i'm sorry but i think your timing is really atrocious in creating this thread. perhaps now is not the time to be publicly lamenting your datelessness. find something else to think about for a while until this recent shooting is not so fresh in people's minds, maybe?

edit* to add: i'm not trying to be mean--i know loneliness is no fun for anyone, i have been there myself. it's just really bad timing.


The exchange above is from "How do I really get a girl?" in the Love and Dating sub-Forum. Clearly, this has become the Elliot Rodgers sub-forum. And, clearly, it is not a place where love and dating is considered an appropriate subject, by at least one user. How can a young man who wants a girlfriend be treated this way? Remember, these feelings are common among men and women on the spectrum. They come here to deal with those feelings. This is the place to help with advise and coping, not inflict shame. And certainly, not assign the shame of a mass murderer.

Post note: Many have speculated about the possibility that Elliot Rodgers may have been a member here. Well, consider this - What if Elliot Rodgers had come here seeking the help and support of other autistics? What if two years ago, he had posted to L&D a request for help and some assurances? Maybe, the outcome would have been different. Maybe, he would have spent the last two years with the feeling that some people understood and cared. Myself, I still wouldn't be surprised if many factors in the murders went far beyond anything we see in the video - we don't know for sure. But still, why discourage someone who wants a bit of help and encouragement getting a proper mindset and attitude?

Further note: You know, perhaps Elliot Rodgers really did come here asking for help. What if the investigation turns up a WP user name? What if his posts and the responses he received end up on TV news? What if the mother of one of the dead victims asks into the camera "Why didn't you help him? He asked for help. You could have helped him. Why did you treat him that way?"



The only way to help a man who thinks he is entitled to the affections and bodies of women is to tell him that he isn't. To try and explain to him why he isn't. And aside from the ethics of the matter, it would genuinely help, be a soothing realisation for the man in question, would actually make them happier. Where one feels entitled to something, but doesn't have that something, the fault is with the world, or the something in question. There is a perplexed anger that one does not have what one surely should. This is the difference between wanting something and feeling entitled.

Now, I happen to not think I'm entitled to such. If I came asking for romantic advice, I would take it through the understanding that women are people, and individuals, and no individual is in any way obligated to have any kind of interest in me. Viewed like this, the world meets my expectations, and a good number of times exceeds them. If I were to think I am entitled to everyone's interest, the world would (of course) constantly disappoint. And as I am entitled, the fault lies with the world. I am being deliberately deprived. Etc.

What help do you think Rodger wanted? What help do you think he would have listened to? What help do you think actually would have helped him?


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28 May 2014, 4:35 am

Dillogic wrote:
It's so nice that everyone is caught up with only one portion of his murders.

I'm starting to think everyone is noiseist. Yeah, I said it. Noiseist.

I also think people are firearmists too. Yeah, I said that too. Firearmists.

I also, also think people are tragedy whores whom peddle their own hidden agendas.


Oh, dear Lord.

Did he come to frame his misery and rage through a noiseist lens, going to noiseist sites and talking to other noiseists how he hated all noise causing objects, planning on entering the noisiest place in the locale and killing all the noisemakers and wanting to round up all the noisemakers and starve them to death? No. He didn't. The frame, the narrative, was entitled misogyny, and it was not chosen at random, or by accident, and he found plenty of people willing to endorse that narrative.

Much too much of what he said about women turns up in all sorts of places, and is far from uncommon. There is no 'hidden agenda' in recognising that fact, finding it troublesome, and wanting to do something about it.

Pray tell, what is this 'hidden agenda'? What, to you, is so distasteful about a feminist approach to understanding this crime, and its wider social context?


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Of course, it's probably quite a bit more complicated than that.

You know sometimes, between the dames and the horses, I don't even know why I put my hat on.