Someone Marry Barry, Aspergers and Aspartners

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As usual, we disagree vehemently on this topic.

I think you've missed my point: there is a big difference between a 13-year-old who is violent, a small child who is violent, and an adult or adult-sized teenager who is violent.

First of all, the younger kids can be handled by their parents for the mere fact that their parents are bigger. Not so likely with a 16 year old. Second, there's a likelihood that the younger children can learn to do better, which is unlikely in the case of an adult schizophrenic (which isn't a developmental or learning issue, it's a medical issue that doesn't go away without medical treatment.) There is a difference between a medical issue (someone who is violent because they are sick) and a developmental issue (someone who is acting like a much younger child until they mature, which in some cases means they are violent.)

We also don't expect people with developmental delays who are violent to "live out in the real world," so your therapist is right in that way - but it's a valid option for them to stay at home in the care of their family if the family so chooses, even if they are violent. It is up to the family - and if the family believes they can help the child learn not to be violent better than a hospital, it's a valid choice. In that case, the child (or adult) would lose the option of being independent and unsupervised, right? That would be the case if they were five, 13, 16 or 75 - independence is only offered to people who can be responsible for their actions. There are more options for someone who can't be independent for whatever reason than hospitalization.

The reason I'm responding to you is that I'm concerned you are taking a very black-and-white approach to an issue that has many, many levels of grey. I know you have kids that are headed into toddlerhood, and want to have this discussion in case you think these rules would apply to them.

I would also caution you about how meltdowns look - Callista's meltdowns may not be like other people's meltdowns. My son's involve hyperfocus, so he had behaviors that seemed purposeful, but in retrospect it seems like the only part of his brain that worked during a meltdown was the part trying to solve the problem with violence.

Again, we are past this - so I do have one concrete example of a situation where we managed violent behavior at home until it successfully went away. I'm just saying that it happens.

Triplemoon said her daughter is bigger than her and I have never seen a 13 year old who isn't adult sized. I was taller than my mother in 6th grade and have been adult height since I was ten years old because I reached five foot. Some kids are just bigger than average and I have always been tall for my age and my son is tall for a three year old. I can see how a toddler can easily hurt an adult because my son has hurt me unintentionally so imagine if it was all intentional, he would be even stronger and it would hurt even more. before kids I just thought "How hard is it to restrain a five year old?" "How can a small child hurt an adult so badly they had to call the cops to restrain the child off the person?" and thought adults were p*****s because "aw they got hurt by a wittle child, c'mon it's not that bad, you can easily restrain them." But I get it now. I just had to have my own who is unintentionally rough and he isn't trying to be. I imagine "Now try imagining if he was doing it all on purpose, imagine how much painful and how much more he would be hurting me" and there have been toddlers out there who would do it on purpose because it was taught (children model their parents so if they see violence in their home, they will do it too thinking it's how you handle things) or because they have other issues. That is why people always assume there is child abuse when a kid is violent because that is what normally happens when a kid is violent. There is either abuse in the home like domestic violence or there is child abuse.

I appreciated your post though but still don't fully agree. If people want to be martyrs, they can go right ahead but if there are other kids involved in the household and other people, I will speak up about it.

Just because a kid isn't the size of an adult yet doesn't mean they still can't be dangerous like that 10 year old boy who threw an ax at my brothers and their friends and his parents hospitalized him that quick. My therapist considered him mentally ill because no normal child acts that way and no child tries to get their way by getting all violent and hurting people. He told me that was not Asperger's, that is an illness that kid had. He could have had conduct disorder too and ODD usually leads to it if not outgrown. We also stopped having him over because he got too dangerous. I already knew he was violent because he bragged about it and took pride but I never ever thought he would destroy my parents personal item or throw an ax at people. I have never forgiven him either for what he did. I will only forgive him if he isn't this person anymore and I don't know what he is like today and never bothered looking him up online like on Facebook. I think ODD was his main issue and it was pretty bad and he was also a pathological liar and wore this charming mask. Being at his house, I saw a totally different Frankie. At my house, my brothers saw a different Frankie too but with me around, he was all sweet and my brothers never even told me who he really is until months after I last saw him. I realized how much I had been lied to by this kid and how he painted himself as a victim and my brothers and their friends as the bullies and he never told me the s**t he did to them. My parents didn't even tell me either until afterwards and I think because they didn't want to upset me and it did when they finally told me. My mom said "he was a sweet boy Beth he really was but then his hormones changed and now he is violent so it's not safe having him here anymore."

Also look up Beth Thomas and listen to the interview with her on youtube Child of Rage. Her parents had to give up their adoption unfortunately because they had to protect her brother from her and that was the only way they could get her help. Another woman who knew how to treat RAD adopted her and she overcame it and grew up to be a nurse. I would say that is a rare case for her and she was lucky. Sadly there isn't lot of support for RAD kids so families are left desperate and are abandoning their adopted children or sending them back to their home country because they have gotten so desperate for their safety and for their other kids and therapy usually makes them worse because not many therapist know how to treat RAD. Treatment for it is extremely expensive. Yeah these are young children too but they are also very dangerous, a Chucky I describe them as to paint a picture of that is how bad it really is. It is not the same as having a child with issues and easily restraining them.

League_Girl, I understand where you are coming from and your concern is protecting other members of the household which means you do care. This is an admirable quality on your part. Do you understand the history of institutions and why some people may be concerned? There was all kinds of abuse that went on in them? Another thing I would like to add is that people who did not belong in institutions were placed there anyway as a matter of convenience. There was nothing medically wrong with them in the slightest.

The problem was is that they were warehoused more instead of truthfully treated and once you were committed it was very difficult to get representation if you believed you were fine.

Momsparky was able to get to the root of the problem with her DS. They have been doing quite well. Technology and better treatments are coming along as well so if a child can be treated why wouldn't we provide them the treatment? I understand where you're coming from and I understand where Momsparky is coming from as well. I understand where ASDMommy is coming from as well.

My mom thinks what Reagen did and what other people voted for, that was their intention to get institutions shut down and gotten rid of. To stop that from happening I bolded but it backfired instead and now we have all these mentally ill people running wild who are dangerous. Sometimes people do things for good intention but then other things go wrong because they don't look at the big picture first before doing something about it.

Abuse goes on in nursing homes and group homes sometimes too but does that mean we should get them all shut down? There are also corrupted social workers from social services and some people think we should get rid of CPS but I disagree because there are children that need to be protected and we just need to stop the corruption. Getting rid of CPS won't solve the problem because then abused children won't get protected nor would families get support when they need it.

People said we needed to get rid of institutions than saying they need to stop the corruption in them and the abuse. They need to stop the treatment they do in there on patients. But no they went black and white about it and had them all shutdown.

I could go on like teachers have abused students, should we get rid of all the schools and teachers?

I have seen other extreme views like "no more baby sitters" "no nannies" from parents because abuse has happened from baby sitters and nannies too and they also think no other parent should hire someone to watch their kids, same as taking them to daycare.

I know that this a tangent, but Reagan didn't just close institutions b/c of abusive practices. It was largely a cost cutting measure that was supposed to be followed up with the opening of more community-based options. That did not necessarily happen in the volume that was required.

I don't think anyone on this thread is saying all the institutions should be closed. I think it is more a discussion about who should and should not be sent to them and under what conditions.

I do think that there needs to be better oversight of any place that houses people who are not necessarily viewed as reliable narrators and cannot self advocate. That also costs money. I live in a state that doesn't want to spend money on that. Even our homes for the elderly have a ton of issues, and I guarantee you that the populace has more respect for the elderly than people in mental health facilities.Edited for syntax

Last edited by ASDMommyASDKid on 27 Jun 2014, 9:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Well I did go overboard by calling you all skanks and I do apologize for that. I will state that I am glad that some of you are standing up to the bigotry on there and calling it for what it is. http://forums.delphiforums.com/aspiediv ... ?msg=789.1

I am sorry that your hubby is abusing you. If it comes down to it and I know it will hurt but your safety you may have to leave him. What I do believe is that hatred and trauma can twist a person into the very enemy one wishes to defeat.

?Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.?

― Friedrich Nietzsche

ASDMommy, I meant to say this but I forgot but please do not let your son listen to Tommy Sotomayor. He may get wrong ideas.

No, I won't. Don't worry. I could tell by your description that it would not be good for him to hear.

I had to look him up and saw he is a homophobic racist for a radio talk show if I am correct. My dad would probably love him. He loves to listen to jerks on the air just to hear what they say and laugh about it.

Aspartners was shocking to me. Its clearly a hate group. They have that great NT groupthink going (its why no Aspies are allowed--no voices of reason to break it up) and an imagined victim status just like Germanys "Die Juten zind unser Ungluck". They even have posts on how to spot us in public, which remind me of the Germans VS Jews posters of the Third Reich.

League_Girl,

You raise a good point. These institutions are not places anyone would want to go (or have family members go), but the exploitation they would face on the streets is far worse. This is a case where "compassion" and "do-gooderism" backfired in a bad way.

Newsflash, it turned out that girl didn't have autism and she actually had BPD. How do I know, the mother had came back here and said she had realized her daughter was manipulating her so she found another way to stop the abuse and it was far different than what my mother did with me. Then I saw the mother posting on the psych forums under the same username and talked about her BPD daughter there and the mother also has BPD. I did notice the girl had moved onto being suicidal and doing self harm from doing abuse to her twin sister and to her mother as I've noticed here when she did come back to ask for help with her suicidal and self harm daughter and then a user here brought up BPD.

Damn, I was so right about that child but didn't know it was BPD.

It's probably possible she still has autism because she has ASD symptoms (taking things literal, difficulty with picking up on sarcasm) but it was BPD the mom had been dealing with the whole time than just autism.