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Rocket123
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23 Jul 2014, 12:21 am

I had an interesting discussion with my therapist today.

I was telling my therapist that I generally do not like social situations. As I struggle with figuring out what to say to people. Because of this, I prefer to limit my social interactions.

I then proceeded to describe several social situations that I have participated in recently. These social situations involved family, friends, co-workers and strangers.

The common thread in my social interactions was:

a) Generally, when I am with people, I have no idea what to talk about. My therapist indicated that perhaps this is because my interests are so narrow that I do not have a lot of stuff to talk about. Or maybe, because I don?t really care about forming connections with others.

b) I can do a reasonable job interacting with others, when I ?control? the conversation. My therapist indicated that this occurs when I am dominating the conversation and the other party is mainly listening. As an example, when I am explaining something to another person.

c) I will participate in a conversation, when it involves a topic I am interested in.

At some point, the therapist suggested I might have social anxiety with avoidant tendencies.

My question is as follows - What is the difference between an Aspie with Social Anxiety and one without? How does having Social Anxiety impact the behavior of an Aspie?



Humanaut
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23 Jul 2014, 12:54 am

Rocket123 wrote:
What is the difference between an Aspie with Social Anxiety and one without?

The anxiety.

Quote:
How does having Social Anxiety impact the behavior of an Aspie?

He has one additional reason to avoid social situations compared to the person not suffering from social anxiety. I was eventually prescribed diazepam after years of trying to adapt to so-called societal norms by using alcohol as self-medication. Diazepam is a much better remedy than alcohol.



Rocket123
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23 Jul 2014, 1:41 am

Humanaut wrote:
The anxiety.


Humanaut - Thanks for the response.

Before you began medication did you have these anxious thoughts/feelings across all social interactions? Or only a few? How did this anxiety manifest itself?

I ask, because I am trying to understand if I have thoughts/feelings in social situations that are common for people with social anxiety.

Humanaut wrote:
He has one additional reason to avoid social situations compared to the person not suffering from social anxiety. I was eventually prescribed diazepam after years of trying to adapt to so-called societal norms by using alcohol as self-medication. Diazepam is a much better remedy than alcohol.


How did your medication change your social interactions? Could you provide some before/after examples?

As a note, I don?t drink alcohol that often. But, when I was younger (say, in my 20s), I used to drink (or do drugs) during most social events. I suppose, when intoxicated, I was apt to say anything, even if it was really stupid. LOL



Humanaut
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23 Jul 2014, 2:01 am

Rocket123 wrote:
Before you began medication did you have these anxious thoughts/feelings across all social interactions?

Not all, but most. I've managed to be in relationships, and certain family members do not trigger anxiety.

Quote:
How did this anxiety manifest itself?

It starts with muscle tension, increased audio sensitivity, and evolves into panic if I'm trapped in a situation, e.g. waiting in line at the supermarket.

Quote:
How did your medication change your social interactions? Could you provide some before/after examples?

I'm not socializing more. It's more a remedy making me able to cope with unavoidable situations.

Quote:
As a note, I don?t drink alcohol that often. But, when I was younger (say, in my 20s), I used to drink (or do drugs) during most social events. I suppose, when intoxicated, I was apt to say anything, even if it was really stupid. LOL

Diazepam makes you act and feel normal, relaxed, nothing more unless you take too much, in which case you become dozy.



Last edited by Humanaut on 23 Jul 2014, 2:55 am, edited 1 time in total.

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23 Jul 2014, 2:53 am

It's whether you actually become nervous or worry that the other person is judging you for no reason that makes the difference. I get all jittery and lose the power of speech when I have to interact with people. I can become more social around people I've known for a long time (or when I'm properly medicated), but then I tend to act more like what you've described in your first post -- I don't really want to talk. It's too tiring; I have to expend so much effort to understand and be understood by allistic people.



bleh12345
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23 Jul 2014, 4:30 am

The difference is about the emotional and physical response. People with anxiety will usually have certain behaviors and their bodies react. For example:

Behaviors might include: Avoiding the situation, pacing, constant worrying, stuttering

Physical symptoms might include: Bad sweating, panic attacks (increased heart rate, chest pain, tunnel vision, feeling faint, nausea), insomnia, hyperventilation, trouble breathing, tension

A lot of people with autism naturally have anxiety because over time we know we are messing up socially, but we still can't fix it. We may worry about ruining relationships by accident. We may be obsessed with trying not to upset people. What you described sounds like typical autistic behaviors. Now, if you have these symptoms before you have to socialize, I would say you might have social anxiety. However, just not talking, having avoid behaviors, and only talking about special interests is not anxiety. This is autism. I have found that for me, those behaviors INDUCE my anxiety. Not being able to have small talk, only talking when it's about my interests, and avoiding people has been one of the reasons I have an anxiety disorder and panic attacks. The reason is because when I do those behaviors, I'm now WORRIED about what people think about me to the point where it's unhealthy. I want to fix some of this and be looked at as part of the group, but I know that people think I'm odd. If you don't really have that reaction to your autistic behaviors, then it just seems like you are a typical "aspie".



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23 Jul 2014, 7:36 am

For me, anxiety occurs most often with people I am not very familiar with and in places and with people that are sort of like triggers for bad memories and bad emotional memories. It's more likely to occur in places that have no scaffolding for conversation, like outside of classrooms and outside of work and away from very, very familiar people.

The root of the anxiety isn't that I really worry what the other person thinks of me, I worry about all the social intricacies that go into it. I get anxiety over the performance basically: anticipating when they are going to smile so that I can reciprocate (always a delay in my reaction, though nobody says anything about it), doing things like eye contact and answering back and nodding and Hmm-hmming so they know I am paying attention unfortunately this often makes the other person think I understood them more than I did when I should have asked for clarification, just plain how to start the conversation and how and when to approach them if it's one of those situations where I need to give or gather information or fix a wrong that I might have done. There is some worry about what they think of me, but mostly it is my own perfectionist tendencies of wanting to do it all right and not make any mistakes or commit any "oddities". Sensory or emotional overload and there is little or no talking: first quietness and visual stimming (my brain forces it on me and I catch myself doing it a lot), then mutism if the overload is primarily emotional, then shutdown if I can't get out of the situation.

I also get the anxiety really bad with people I really like because I am afraid of offending them, liking them too much, them sensing how much I like them, trying to show interest too because if you don't they think you aren't wanting them and then there is also the thing where when you are in the initial stages of interacting with someone that is really stressful. I am too tired to go into that; it will make the post even longer. And then I figured out you have to entertain people to keep them around; that is exhausting and just another "act" and they know it.

I agree with a lot that has already been said, especially with some of the things bleh12345 said.

Living with an NT husband for 8 years who has expected me to be more social when we go with his friends, who says that me not looking at him in the eye makes him feel misunderstood or ignored and who has told me that not meeting eyes makes people think you are lying or don't like them, just having to interact with him daily (this is exhausting and we are both at the point of accepting that finally), and having children whom I didn't want to learn any "bad" social habits from me has pushed me to develop a façade or a sort of autopilot, but it is exhausting and I'll say the wrong thing because I anticipated a different question and answered the question I anticipated. I've dropped it now that I realized how much energy it was requiring and that doing those things was actually contributing to meltdowns and irritability which are not things I want and not something my children should have to put up with. In all of this, I still have never looked my husband in the eyes more than 4 to 5 seconds and that was by myself forcing it because we have played a sort of game over the years, trying to hold eye contact with him. Didn't know this all "went together." I am better in small, familiar groups with people who I know like me and accept me but I also find that I don't actually seek them out. It's usually them calling to schedule an outing or get-together.

I hope I didn't just kill this thread.



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23 Jul 2014, 1:52 pm

Well you didn't kill it for me :)

My New Year's resolution this year was to tackle my social anxiety head on.

If this sounds courageous, it wasn't - at least initially; I had reached a point where the pain of isolation became greater than my fear of socialising.

The first few times were terrifying. Fear affected me physically, emotionally, mentally. I had to experience this in order to move through it. It wasn't easy. The first day, I was so upset about going to a meeting with strangers that I dinged my car backing out of my drive - something I could normally do blindfolded (am a good driver, actually). The first meeting felt like torture: I was shaking, my heart racing, felt as if there was a brick where my brain was supposed to be, ripples of nausea, racing thoughts ("they'll hate me, why am I doing this, this is a huge mistake, let me out of here".)

I might have tossed it in but for the fact that I received a few messages from old-timers in the group who told me that I had done very well, and described their first meeting experiences. These messages normalised things for me, and helped me realise that my responses weren't different nor strange: they had all been there too.

It took about 6 meetings before I could experience being there and remaining calm and interacting without those disabling inner experiences. So I was desensitized, in a supportive environment, by being with people who had walked in my shoes.

Now, 7 months later, I look forward to the meetings and have become a liked and respected (I think) member of the group, they look forward to seeing me, I look forward to being there.

Often I reflect on what fears disabled me in the beginning: fear of rejection, or being judged negatively, of being misunderstood, of being labelled ("weird, strange"), of being ignored, of being criticised or insulted.. These were heavy, full on fears, (all stemming from adverse past experiences) and the only way out of them was to move through them. Now that I have come out of the other side, I am starting to experience more confidence in other social settings - or at least less fear about them. And if things go wrong, I know that I can always discuss it frankly with my social anxiety group buddies and that they will understand and offer support.

Regarding alcohol to calm social anxiety - it's a complete no no for me. It didn't help, it made things 100 times worse. It affected my judgment negatively, I rarely drink now and only very moderately at special celebrations. Clonazepam, which I experimented with a few of months ago made a tremendously positive difference, relaxing me in a way that I functioned as my "best self". It raises Gaba levels in the brain and I do seem to have a deficiency of that neurotransmitter naturally, so I investigated this and learned a lot about it.

I hope someone finds hope from my experience; after decades of terrible social anxiety and social isolation, I found recovery from it, and my life blossomed.. not overnight, not without some slip ups, but it did happen, and has been and is a transformative experience.



eloralouistra
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23 Jul 2014, 3:59 pm

Rocket123 wrote:

a) Generally, when I am with people, I have no idea what to talk about. My therapist indicated that perhaps this is because my interests are so narrow that I do not have a lot of stuff to talk about. Or maybe, because I don?t really care about forming connections with others.

b) I can do a reasonable job interacting with others, when I ?control? the conversation. My therapist indicated that this occurs when I am dominating the conversation and the other party is mainly listening. As an example, when I am explaining something to another person.

c) I will participate in a conversation, when it involves a topic I am interested in.



I think other people have covered talking about how social anxiety, makes things different, but this makes me happy because it sounds a lot like me. I have some obsessive interests that I can go on about for hours, but with other things, I usually have no idea what to say.



Rocket123
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25 Jul 2014, 3:33 pm

Thanks everyone for your replies.

While I definitely do have anxiety (which seems to mostly center on worry as I tend to think about and over analyze everything), I definitely do not feel the physical symptoms described by bleh1245.

At the same time, I do try to avoid social situations. Attending a social event is akin to going to the dentist for a teeth cleaning. I typically don?t look forward to the event (sometimes I dread it) and oftentimes don?t have fun during the event itself (because being with others and not knowing what to say, can be uncomfortable). However, it?s oftentimes good for me (to escape out of my cocoon).

At this moment, I am thinking that any social anxiety I possibly might have, would be very mild (and likely not diagnosable). As a note, the Clinical Psychologist who originally diagnosed me with Aspergers never mentioned Social Anxiety as a possible diagnosis.



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25 Jul 2014, 3:40 pm

Rocket, you don't sound like you have social anxiety any more than the normal levels of social anxiety that many people including NTs have.


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Rocket123
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28 Jul 2014, 11:30 pm

btbnnyr wrote:
Rocket, you don't sound like you have social anxiety any more than the normal levels of social anxiety that many people including NTs have.


I am coming to that conclusion as well. I asked about it, mainly because my current therapist suggested I might have social anxiety.

Now, I am wondering if my current therapist (a Clinical Psychologist who purportedly has some expertise with autism) knows what she is talking about.