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RaspberryFrosty
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02 Aug 2014, 3:59 pm

How do Aspies and NLDers on here feel about lying? I don't understand why people lie about things in their lives to make themselves appear better than others. I have this one friend who exaggerates about things and makes up these outlandlish stories about family members that I'm pretty sure don't exist and our other friends seem to go along with it. It's coming to the point to where I can't deal with it because I value honesty in my relationships with other people.

Any input on here would be great.


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LyraLuthTinu
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02 Aug 2014, 7:09 pm

I've read that it's much easier for neurotypicals to lie about such things than it is for those of us on the spectrum. They don't want to hurt people's feelings, and deal with the repercussions of hurt feelings. While a HFA's greater loyalty is to the truth than to the social conventions or the delicate psyches of the listeners.

For me, I've been pulling my hair out trying to figure out what I do that my husband calls disrespect. Turns out that the problem is my lack of discretion in sharing my thoughts in ways that may reflect badly on him. He wants me to "protect the image others have of him." I understand, I guess--but I don't feel like I could make up a bunch of stuff to make him look good. It's hard enough for me to say stuff that isn't true; it's nearly impossible for me to get anyone to believe it. I'm trying harder to clam up when what I say might make him look bad now. It's hard for me to predict whether the things I say--things that that to me are just telling it like it is are going to make people think "woah, Lyra's husband sounds like a real prick" or something though. I try to think the best of people unless or until I see or hear them do or say bad things that deliberately hurt people. So just saying that he and I are struggling with something, to me that's just like asking for help or for people to pray for us. To him, it's making people think he's an awful person/man/husband. :(

Tall tales and exaggerations like you're describing, RaspberryFrosty, sound like a desperate bid for attention and approval. Your choices might be to inwardly roll your eyes and pretend it doesn't bother you, to ask him/her about in private and explain how much it bothers you and why, or to call him/her out for it in the group and risk embarrassing him/her so much that s/he no longer wants to be your friend.

NT's might have other ideas. But this is what your friendly neighborhood Aspie suggests. I'd probably consider the ask in private part, myself, unless you're not real close to this person anyway.

I must admit that I do lie about myself sometimes, if I'm too embarrassed to admit a fault, admit I know I've done something wrong, or confess to having failed to do something I was supposed to do. People rarely believe me, though; I can't lie convincingly. This is probably a good thing. Lies make me feel guilty and ashamed, too.


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Official diagnosis: Austism Spectrum Disorder Level One, without learning disability, without speech/language delay; Requiring Support


lostonearth35
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02 Aug 2014, 9:21 pm

If someone asks me "How are you?" I find it's almost impossible to say "fine" and not sound like everything is the opposite of fine when it isn't. Like a couple of days ago when someone on Youtube thought it was pure genius to call anyone they was was stupid "autistic", another person told me online to "enjoy my so-called life", the weather is unbearably hot and muggy, I couldn't sleep most of the night because of cramps from my period, and I have a headache. I've been told that "How are you?" is little more than a greeting and most people don't really want to know how I am other than "fine", but I feel like the biggest liar in the world if that's not the case. I think all lying is really bad, even so called "white lies". The only exception is when you make up something really silly just for a joke i.e. a "whopper", or you think the person you're talking to isn't listening, e.g. "Did you hear they now have a baby unicorn at the wildlife park? And a blue hedgehog, and a fox with two tails!"



justkillingtime
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02 Aug 2014, 9:26 pm

I had a friend who constantly bragged and exaggerated. It got to the point where I just could not stand it. When he mentioned some friends were no longer coming around, I said "when people are struggling it is difficult to hear how wonderful your life is". I left a lot of my feelings and thoughts out in an effort to not be mean. I think the feedback was beneficial but I could be wrong.


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emtyeye
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03 Aug 2014, 12:54 am

On an Internet site I saw a day or so ago (by a psychologist Aspie I think, but I forget), there was an article that said NT people tell each other little lies as a way to build trust! They kind of know what are lies, and they do not take words anywhere as literally as we do. So, to them it may not really be lies (sometimes). Maybe they are having some other form of communication that looks like lying to an Autistic, but it has a deeper, more convoluted meaning to them. Probably a way to avoid conflict.

This is what I have been considering, and then I saw this article and it seems to confirm the idea.



Summer_Twilight
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03 Aug 2014, 1:28 pm

people don't realize that lying can be very serious. Not only can it betray one's trust but it can land you in jail. I was friends with three people who were liars that did not have Autism. All of them seemed to lie is coolly as if they did not care. They lied about having things that they did not or they lied about things that were not even true when they did not need to.

Then I have had people lie to me as a form of brushing me off rather than be upfront with me. This includes some family members, a former roommate.



layla87
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03 Aug 2014, 11:38 pm

I really do not like lying at all, I think telling the truth is much better, "the truth will set you free" - might sound cheesy but it's true.

I'm not gonna say I've never lied (mostly white lies) but I try to be honest at all costs. The only times I can remember lying are usually to my family and it's about minor things (like what I ate or I'll say I'm done my chores before I actually do them.)

Other than that, I can honestly say, I'm a pretty honest person.



LyraLuthTinu
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08 Aug 2014, 6:26 pm

I think the worst is when they tell you lies about things that actually affect you, because they think they are being nice. They think the truth will hurt your feelings too much.

Trouble is, that if eventually the truth comes out, it hurts a lot more when you find out what they were unwilling to tell you before. Because you have all the hurt feelings that they thought the blunt, cold, hard truth would cause you, plus you have the hurt of being lied to on top of it. And the information that they think you're weak, pathetic, unstable or whatever adjective they applied to you when they decided you wouldn't be able to cope with the truth in the first place. :x


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Official diagnosis: Austism Spectrum Disorder Level One, without learning disability, without speech/language delay; Requiring Support


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10 Aug 2014, 6:00 pm

Regardless of my "opinion" of lying, I just can't traffic in deception as a way of life, either expressively or receptively.
It's just too bleeping hard for my poor overwhelmed systems that are quite busy with trying to deal with what "is", what I believe "reality" to be.
Add in having to assume that random instances of information I've received are lies ? Overload, brain go bye bye.
Bad data flummoxes my brain & perturbs my ability to comprehend what's happening, I wouldn't want to waste someone's time by putting out wrong info.

Do I occasionally wriggle when put on the spot with a question that I know I must answer a certain way to protect my personal safety ? Yeah.
But if I can possibly get away with being honest, then I am. And I do try to make it somewhat civil/polite rather than crude/crass.

People who continue to deal with me know this, and know that I need to be able to trust them as well.
Those who can't handle (don't appreciate) my level of transparency (lack of guile) don't last long in my life.


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ElsaFlowers
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14 Aug 2014, 8:25 am

I'm pretty good at lying, better than most NTs. I only do it for a valid reason though and if possible I make sure I weigh up all the consequences first and plan for all the possibilities that may trip me up. There are very few occasions where I've been tripped up by lies and these are all a long time ago and a result of poor planning.

An example of when I feel it's ok to lie would be after I informed a work collegue that bosses were planning to set her up to be sacked, I lied that I'd informed her of this and also denied helping her gather evidence for a constructive dismissal case. My lie helped stop someone being unfairly treated. It only hurt those who were planning to hurt someone else therefore it's a positive and acceptable lie.

Another example is that I lie on my CV about experience and I've condensed my CV to look like I've had a solid career of 5 jobs in admin roles when in reality I've had over 50 jobs and big gaps of unemployment. What would be the sense in telling the truth here? No employer would want me if they knew the truth. I know that if I can find a job I like I'll stick at it and work hard and I only lie about experience if I know I have those skills anyway.

I don't think it's acceptable to lie just to make yourself sound more exciting, it's only acceptable to lie if it doesn't hurt innocent people or to protect yourself or loved ones.



ElsaFlowers
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14 Aug 2014, 8:33 am

ElsaFlowers wrote:
An example of when I feel it's ok to lie would be after I informed a work collegue that bosses were planning to set her up to be sacked, I lied that I'd informed her of this and also denied helping her gather evidence for a constructive dismissal case. My lie helped stop someone being unfairly treated. It only hurt those who were planning to hurt someone else therefore it's a positive and acceptable lie.

Actually I just realised I said this wrong :oops: it wasn't my lie that stopped someone being unfairly treated, it was my actions. My lie stopped me from being sacked :)



tarantella64
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16 Aug 2014, 2:15 pm

Elsa, as an employer, if I found out that an employee had lied on his or her resume, I'd let that person go on the spot. I expect white lies about, say, attendance, and so long as the job's getting done I'm not thrilled but will let it go. But lying about anything substantive? Out the door. I need to be able to trust the people who work for me.



Raleigh
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22 Aug 2014, 6:46 am

I lie all the time.

When people ask, "how are you?" I say "fine". LIE. I'm not fine.
When people ask, "Do you want to go out for coffee?" I say "I'd love to." LIE. I know I'm going to hate it.
When the boss says, "Can you replace Suzie today?" I say "sure." LIE. There's no way I can be anything like Suzie.
When people ask, "How's your mother?" I say "good." LIE. My mother is not good in any way.

People don't really want to hear the truth, and sometimes it's too exhausting to tell it.


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ElsaFlowers
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22 Aug 2014, 8:39 am

tarantella64 wrote:
Elsa, as an employer, if I found out that an employee had lied on his or her resume, I'd let that person go on the spot. I expect white lies about, say, attendance, and so long as the job's getting done I'm not thrilled but will let it go. But lying about anything substantive? Out the door. I need to be able to trust the people who work for me.


But would you give me a job knowing that I struggle with work because of my ASD traits and as a result I've had at least 50 jobs? Perhaps you would be more understanding than others since you are here on this forum but that still doesn't help me in this society that isn't ASD friendly but I still need to work. Even with my enhanced CV it's still taken me 3 months to find work. If I'd been truthful I don't believe I ever would have got an interview anywhere so what other choice did I have? Also it seems to me that employers don't like to hear negativity about previous employers so I cannot tell the truth that the doctor has signed me off work due to stress because my ex boss is an unscrupulous liar and a thief who even tries to stop employees from moving on and when they do he will go to extreme lengths to get them sacked from their new jobs. No new employer wants to hear about these things.



KezC
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23 Aug 2014, 4:15 am

I find it extremely difficult to tell a straight-out lie, even to the point where I can't actually say "fine" when asked how I am, even though it know this isn't a real question, and that they don't actually care. I will say "fine thanks" or "good thanks" if I'm feeling OK, but if I feel terrible I will say "Not too bad" (as in, not so bad that I'm dead) or just ask how the other person is instead.

I actually hate "How are you" as a greeting. Why can't we just say "I see you" or "I'll talk to you" which is pretty much what it means.

Another pet hate of mine is when I go to pay for my groceries, and the checkout person asks "What are you doing today?". I know it's just a script they have to use in order to appear friendly, and that they don't give a proverbial what I'm doing, but I feel strangely compelled to answer, and then get uncomfortable because I don't really feel like discussing my day, especially if it's going badly. On the other hand, I don't want to respond with "None of your business" (unnecessarily rude) or "I'd rather not say" (weird and slightly suspicious sounding). I can see that a little lie would be useful in this situation, but I can't make myself do it.

I also honestly believe that the world would be a better place if there were no lies.

I don't agree with Brad Blanton's version of 'radical honesty'. He thinks you ought to say whatever comes into your head, including things that will be hurtful to yourself and others. I'm quite comfortable with not mentioning things that I can see aren't going to be helpful, but I don't see any value in saying things that aren't true, even if they might be helpful. For example, you ask me whether I like your new shirt but I think it's hideous. I'm not going to say it's hideous, but I'm also not going to say "OMG it's gorgeous, I love it". I'll probably say something like "Wow, that's bright", or if you insist on knowing whether I like it I'd say "It's not my fave, but who cares as long as you enjoy it".

People give all kinds of reasons why 'white lies' are good and necessary, but I haven't seen many examples I can relate to. I would rather hear "I'm not that into you, so let's not see each other again" and know the score, than hear endless excuses as to how busy you are, which leave me confused as to what you mean. People claim that 'white lies' are told to avoid hurting the other person's feelings, but I think that most 'white lies' are actually told because the liar wants to avoid the momentary discomfort that comes from being scrupulously honest.

Regarding CVs, a certain amount of fudging is expected and OK, but that is different from an outright lie. It's a matter of presenting the truth in the most flattering light. So if you worked December to January in one job, lost the job, then found another one in May, you'd put
2013 - 2014 abc company (sounds like you were there for the better part of 2 years but doesn't actually say this)
2014 xyz company
If you have had 50 jobs, you could condense them by grouping several together under position headlines:
2012 - customer service operator
List of skills used
(abc company, xyz company, lmn company).
Not lying, but de-emphasizing the number of jobs.
Leaving out jobs that didn't last more than a month or two and don't add any more skills to your list is fine too.
And periods of unemployment that can't be fudged over can be described as family commitments, sabatticals, rounding your education through travel and volunteer work, whatever you want as long as it is technically true.



ElsaFlowers
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23 Aug 2014, 5:25 am

KezC wrote:
Regarding CVs, a certain amount of fudging is expected and OK, but that is different from an outright lie. It's a matter of presenting the truth in the most flattering light. So if you worked December to January in one job, lost the job, then found another one in May, you'd put
2013 - 2014 abc company (sounds like you were there for the better part of 2 years but doesn't actually say this)
2014 xyz company
If you have had 50 jobs, you could condense them by grouping several together under position headlines:
2012 - customer service operator
List of skills used
(abc company, xyz company, lmn company).
Not lying, but de-emphasizing the number of jobs.
Leaving out jobs that didn't last more than a month or two and don't add any more skills to your list is fine too.
And periods of unemployment that can't be fudged over can be described as family commitments, sabatticals, rounding your education through travel and volunteer work, whatever you want as long as it is technically true.


Originally when I started looking I was doing some of these things and my CV was closer to the truth but I wasn't getting any interviews. The agencies ignored me and I was told that this is because I had a 10 year gap in employment due to depression and not being able to cope with the demands employment brought. It's so difficult to find work now and it seems to me employers want some kind of superhuman. I applied for approximately 200 - 300 jobs since I enhanced my CV and out of that I only got 16 interviews when my CV makes me sound amazing! It wasn't like this 20 years ago when I was job hunting, it was much easier then. I'm not totally comfortable with lying on my CV but needs must and if I hadn't done this to get a job I likely would have lost my house and I can't deal with that on top of all the other problems and stress I'm dealing with now. I know there will still be people who will judge me badly for lying even after reading my reasons but I don't really care. I did what I felt I had to do.